Mirko Cro Cop Was 2-6 In the USA and UK

[NoSmilez]

That was not a real resurgence, that was a step back in competition; can crushing. CC had long since gone over a cliff. Same with Fedor, once he went downhill, he only beat cans.

Whatever it is. He still picked up two MMA belts in Japan and became the K1 GP champion.

 

[HHJ]

That was not a real resurgence, that was a step back in competition; can crushing. CC had long since gone over a cliff. Same with Fedor, once he went downhill, he only beat cans.

Mirko's 10 fight win streak is very impressive for a guy in his mid 40s. Fedor did quite well for the same age. For their age,that IS a resurgence.

 

[Lee_]

Mirko's 10 fight win streak is very impressive for a guy in his mid 40s. Fedor did quite well for the same age. For their age,that IS a resurgence.

True, I was just saying neither could reasonably be compared to the prime version. Both went downhill all of a sudden from their peak, but that seems to not be unusual for MMA fighters. Both of them had engaged in a lifetime of brutal battle with HWs by the time they were in their early 30s.

CC lost to the HW GOAT in both sports (I know he lost at least twice to Hoost, which prevented him from having more K1 titles), but the fact that he was near the apex of both is amazing- especially when you consider the HW divisions in both sports when he fought in them in his prime- full of killers.

 

[Paul E Gensinger]

CC did ok in the United States and United Kingdom (2-6), but did better outside of it. 36-5-2(1)

Why do you think this is the case?

Pride cans.
Just like Fedor.
Silly question.
But somehow Pride was better than the UFC.

 

[HHJ]

True, I was just saying neither could reasonably be compared to the prime version. Both went downhill all of a sudden from their peak, but that seems to not be unusual for MMA fighters. Both of them had engaged in a lifetime of brutal battle with HWs by the time they were in their early 30s.

CC lost to the HW GOAT in both sports (I know he lost at least twice to Hoost, which prevented him from have more K1 titles)), but the fact that he was near the apex of both is amazing- especially when you consider the HW divisions in both sports when he fought in them in his prime- full of killers.

Any other time,just remove one guy,and he would have had his time as top dog.

 

[CombatCyborg]

Which athletes melted? The only guys who really had success in Pride but faltered in UFC are guys like Sokodjou who really never had an extended streak in Pride, just his two fluky wins over Arona and Lil Nog

Fedor, Nogueira, Cro Cop, Shogun, Wanderlei

 

[welcometohavoc]

Fedor, Nogueira, Cro Cop, Shogun, Wanderlei

Shogun was a LHW champion, Nog was an interim HW champion, Wanderlei was in the twilight of his career and still managed big wins

Really just Cro Cop and Fedor

 

[CombatCyborg]

Shogun was a LHW champion, Nog was an interim HW champion, Wanderlei was in the twilight of his career and still managed big wins

Really just Cro Cop and Fedor

While they weren't as dominant, that's a credit to them. I'm not saying they aren't great fighters, I'm just saying their bodies looked different. Something was also going on with Shogun's body in his first UFC fight where he gassed hard against Forrest and had to adapt to...I don't know. What else could it be? I agree Cro Cop was the most dramatic.

 

[legatoblues]

I'm just saying their bodies looked different. Something was also going on with Shogun's body in his first UFC fight where he gassed hard against Forrest and had to adapt to...I don't know. What else could it be? I agree Cro Cop was the most dramatic.

 

[CombatCyborg]

I would argue with you but I honestly don't know what part of my 100% truthful statements made you upset.

 

[DayV]

Cause using Coleman, Randleman, and Barnett isn't dishonest as fuck at all.

• Coleman was UFC champ 8 years prior and was 40 years old
• Randleman hadn't been UFC champ in 4 years, and was in the middle of a 1-6 run in Pride. His lone win was KTFO out of Mirko earlier that same year making them laughably 1-1.
• Barnett was literally over in Japan because he'd been kicked out of the UFC for cheating during his UFC title win in his 2nd PED failure in the UFC. He lost here to Cro Cop from a freak shoulder injury 46 seconds into it.

The same can be said for JDS, Cain, Arlovski, Overeem... when they got beaten by new stars of younger generaton like Ngannou, Blaydes, Gagne, Rozenstruik; making them essential part of their resumes.

 

[World eater]

But somehow Pride was better than the UFC.

For a few years it was, glad you agree.
Just wait a few more years and modern UFC will be like old Pride.

 

[moreorless87]

Mirko's 10 fight win streak is very impressive for a guy in his mid 40s. Fedor did quite well for the same age. For their age,that IS a resurgence.

I would say in Mirko's case it arguebly depended a lot on the opponent, I think specific injuries probably didnt help in his latter UFC run but also I think K-1 matches with big gloves and grapplers in MMA was definitely better style matchups for him, meant his loss of speed was less important. With Fedor I think the main issue was he was facing guys like Mir and Rampage also off of their peaks plus someone like Sonnen who was not on his level even closer to his peak.

The idea they dropped off because they couldnt use PEDs really for me is rather ass backwards, I would argue its actually fighters who were "well preserved" into their late 30's who have a consistent record(Randy, Hendo, Vitor, Anderson, etc) of having been on PEDS, whether legal or not with TRT. Plus of course this is way before USADA were UFC testing would be very limited, you basically needed to be clean in the cage and when getting a licence and not much more.

I would argue actually its more likely the came from less PED heavy cultures, you can point to national doping at olympic levels in eastern europe but at a personal gym level? I think the USA has a MUCH stronger culture there and the vast majority of the really questionable Pride fighters were Americans. With Fedor my guess would be that if anything besides having a lot of milage and a style which needed speed/agility the issue was he DIDNT turn to PEDs in his mid 30's as many fighters training in the US do. In Mirko's case I think if he was heavily on PEDs at any point its actually mosty likely in his latter years were he had way more muscle mass than during his peak, was 10lbs heavier.

 

[maximus__]

Pride fanbois still saying how everyone somehow peaked at 32.

It's the difference between fighting multiple times in a night, being injured from that previous fight and fighting multiple times a year.
In 2004 he fought 8x total, 3 of his opponents were former UFC HW champions going 3-1 (Randleman Ko'd him violently in march and he rematched and avenged that loss on new years eve).

He then had another awesome run in 2006 where he had 4 fights in 5 months including 2 in one night, resulting in him winning the Pride Open Weight Grand prix.

2 years alone he had 12 fights including multiple former champs from the UFC. Most UFC fighters are lucky to fight 12 fights
That's after he fought for years in K1 and had 50+ fights there.

Francis Ngganou has managed 20 fights in 10 years, Stipe is 24 in 13 years and so on...

Guys can barely fight 2x a year these days because it's too hard and can barely make weight without a 3 month camp.
Here is Mirko KO highlight because he was great to watch. These are actual KO's unlike what we see in the UFC these days. Good to see the headkick is back though.

 

[HHJ]

It's weird to think that someone would take "Pride fanbois" as an insult.

Its like somehow if PFL or Bellator became #1 people would go "oh fuck off,UFC fanboi"

It doesnt even make sense haha

 

[Crash-override]

People get mad when your dominant for most of one decade,and dont do the same for the next one

imagine that,a guy fighting top competition since 1996 dropping off in 2007. THE NERVE.

Usually fighters hit there stride/prime at the 8-10 yr mark. Have a prime for a few yrs then slowly decline.

 

[HHJ]

Usually fighters hit there stride/prime at the 8-10 yr mark. Have a prime for a few yrs then slowly decline.

Also Usually fighters dont fight Jerome Lebanner and Ernesto hoost as their first and second pro fight,and have 86 professional fights total.

 

[maximus__]

Usually fighters hit there stride/prime at the 8-10 yr mark. Have a prime for a few yrs then slowly decline.

10 years or 30 professional fights is a good mark for most MMA athletes. It 's when you have seen most of the GOAT candidates start taking multiple losses. You have a few outliers, but pretty much all the guys in the GOAT discussions drop off around that mark and all do when you combine the two. DJ is probably the only outlier, but he had some losses earlier and moved up to extend his career, he still finally got KO'd when he went up as he couldn;t adjust to a new skillset instantly.

It's 10 years of wear and tear from fights,training camps and for the next generation to study you and be peaking as you are declining. It matches up pretty well with most athletes in sports across the world. It's why we rarely have 3x Olympic gold medalists for example.

 

[mahavishnunj]

Here's a free fight for you that was more brutal:

This is your method of deflecting your stupidity? Weak.

 

[cmw43]

What amazing timing that is that he became suddenly shot in the 5 months between winning the Pride tourney and his UFC debut.

He had reconstructive knee surgery between winning the OWGP and his UFC debut.

And then again after the Gonzaga fight. That's why he barely threw kicks and got a lot slower.

Most guys are never the same after one ACL reconstruction and Crocop ended up having a whole bunch and one of his main attributes in his prime was his speed and explosion.

You ever see the pre-fight footage of him backstage at UFC all twitchy?