Nakamura - Sink Or Swim?

[jamesmiller14]

He's 0-3 in title matches, and they just gave up on the persona that got him "over".

It's not a good sign when they take a relative newcomer who is supposedly over, and fuck with him this early into his run. It suggests a lack of faith in his current path, and wiping the slate clean.

US Title Hell by Summerslam. Bank on it.

I think they just realized the language barrier is hard to get over as a top face.

They're throwing him a life raft here.

 

[Wariowokecancel]

I think they just realized the language barrier is hard to get over as a top face.

They're throwing him a life raft here.

Me No Speak Engrish was over

 

[Wariowokecancel]

He's 0-3 in title matches, and they just gave up on the persona that got him "over".

It's not a good sign when they take a relative newcomer who is supposedly over, and fuck with him this early into his run. It suggests a lack of faith in his current path, and wiping the slate clean.

US Title Hell by Summerslam. Bank on it.

AJ didn’t have a good start, took him a while. His matches were better but he wasn’t going with Jinder/Orton/bored Ziggler/Orton.

Still going 0-3 and still being over with the fans isn’t sinking like Wyatt.

WM was shit. Or more like very meh.

He will win at Osadabinladenmania.

 

[HereticBD]

AJ didn’t have a good start, took him a while. His matches were better but he wasn’t going with Jinder/Orton/bored Ziggler/Orton.

Oh', now you got excuses.

What happened to "Bu-bu-but, he went over Cena, Reigns, and Orton!", hmmm?

 

[Wariowokecancel]

Oh', now you got excuses.

What happened to "Bu-bu-but, he went over Cena, Reigns, and Orton!", hmmm?

Not going with excuses... for what? Nak is swimming fine IMO. Top heel on SD at this moment. Biggest WM entrance.

AJ had a better start with better wrestlers. Floundered for a while.

Also not saying that’s why Nak didn’t go over at WM. Didn’t go over because it was two faces+Vince is out of touch/hates foreigners. Like a dude said, WK was heel AJ vs face Nak, that worked great.

Needs to start putting on good matches with shit dudes which he seems to have had difficulty with. Even in Japan.

 

[HereticBD]

Top heel on SD at this moment. Biggest WM entrance.

LOL.

Needs to start putting on good matches with shit dudes which he seems to have had difficulty with. Even in Japan.

How about putting on good matches, period? Dude has worked with Ziggler, Orton, and Styles. Perhaps it is Nakamura who is the shitty wrestler who nobody can get a decent match out of.

Say what you will about Orton, but he can go. The only excuse you got is Jinder, who is just flat out terrible, but that's it. Nak has no excuses. The people he's worked with are more than capable. Nak just sucks. He's the problem.

 

[Count Zero]

Me No Speak Engrish was over

Just to be absolutely fair, the shows immediately after WM are kinda like NXT in that it's hard to gauge how over something is really based on reactions there.

AJ didn’t have a good start, took him a while.

I came in here to mention everyone shit on AJ's first Wrestlemania match against Jericho. Two guys who don't have subpar matches had a subpar match but then they both went on to have like the best summer of their careers.

 

[Starman]

That's why I've always said it's difficult to gauge how "great" a wrestler is or how over said wrestler is until they get to the WWE. Alot of indy wrestlers can only be great if they can wrestle a certain style, and usually said style is a dangerous style and not conducive to a long career nor to that of their opponents. Without an extremely "strong style" match, it's hard to say Nakamura will be anything close to what he was in Japan.

And that's why I've always believed (over the past 14 years) that Styles is the best wrestler in the world once he walks between the ropes but even then, I had a qualifier that it's hard to say he's the best until he gets into the WWE ring and can get it done. Once AJ stepped into a WWE, the transition was smooth as butter and he didn't even have to say a single word. He was the best in ring wrestler in TNA, he was the best in ring wrestler on the indys, he was the best in ring wrestler for two years in Japan, and now is proving it in the WWE. No matter where he goes, no matter the rules or ring/wrestling etiquette, AJ has proven he gets it done any and everywhere. On a side note, that's why it's hard for me to say Omega is better than AJ and Omega doesn't appear to be stupid so he will likely never come to the WWE.

Now back to Nakamura, while promo skills definitely help, all you have to do is watch him in the ring, no volume, and you can tell the guy is gold. Nakamura is very much a hit or miss in the ring and add that to little to no mic skills, it's going to be extremely hard to get over. And when you work with AJ and your match isn't even as good, nor entertaining, as Shane's match against AJ, the issue may be you.

Lastly, it's like what Jericho said. There is a WWE style that you will have to learn and hopefully Nakamura can learn it and adapt to it but I'm not confident it will happen. His style, his matches, his body just doesn't blow you away and you don't come away from his matches in a bit of awe. Now I'm not saying he's Warrior because he's 10x the wrestler Warrior is but the best part of a Nakamura match since he's been in the WWE has been the entrance...and I even enjoyed Nakamura when he was in Japan

There is no doubt that AJ Styles is the best active wrestler in the world today. I hope no one here would be dumb enough to disagree with that statement.

 

[LuchaBear]

Oh', now you got excuses.

What happened to "Bu-bu-but, he went over Cena, Reigns, and Orton!", hmmm?

Warrior thinks that those random TV wins against Cena and Orton to face Jinder half a year ago was good enough to get him a Rumble win and title win at Mania.





Fan boy

 

[Wariowokecancel]

Just to be absolutely fair, the shows immediately after WM are kinda like NXT in that it's hard to gauge how over something is really based on reactions there.



I came in here to mention everyone shit on AJ's first Wrestlemania match against Jericho. Two guys who don't have subpar matches had a subpar match but then they both went on to have like the best summer of their careers.

Post WM Nak had the best male showing (shared with Honda, Honda might just edge out) and best promo of anyone.

He’s not at a IC/US level.

 

[Good Ole Stannis's BBQ]

There is no doubt that AJ Styles is the best active wrestler in the world today. I hope no one here would be dumb enough to disagree with that statement.

For you maybe. It will be John Cena until he leaves for me. I'm sure some new Japan fans would make a case for some of the top guys there. I've only see Omega wrestle a handful of times but he's impressed me more than Styles has in a decade. If that makes me dumb, so be it.

 

[LuchaBear]

For you maybe. It will be John Cena until he leaves for me. I'm sure some new Japan fans would make a case for some of the top guys there. I've only see Omega wrestle a handful of times but he's impressed me more than Styles has in a decade. If that makes me dumb, so be it.

LMAO at Cena being the best wrestler today!








Thanks for the laughs. I'm sure Roman is second place for you.



Must be trolling

 

[Good Ole Stannis's BBQ]

LMAO at Cena being the best wrestler today!








Thanks for the laughs. I'm sure Roman is second place for you.



Must be trolling

Roman has you on strings.

 

[GSPSAKU]

For you maybe. It will be John Cena until he leaves for me. I'm sure some new Japan fans would make a case for some of the top guys there. I've only see Omega wrestle a handful of times but he's impressed me more than Styles has in a decade. If that makes me dumb, so be it.

Wow...have you watched Styles that long? You've only seen Omega a handful of times, in one promotion, wrestling one style is enough for you to say he's better than Styles? Man, that I cannot understand. Now if you said you are a long time Japanese wrestling fan, follow it, have been watching Omega since he came in with Ibushi as the Golden Lovers and have seen the transformation of Omega, that's fine. We all have our opinions and taste but to form an opinion based on a handful of matches, or possibly even clips? Doesn't make you dumb, we all have our opinions, just some have more well formed opinions than others.

Anyhow, that's neither here nor there. Cena, on the otherhand, has been underrated by majority of the smarks for a while now. As I have admitted, I don't follow the product closely anymore but have made very close friends who send me messages on matches to watch etc. In 2015, I think Cena proved his worth as a wrestler. Now do I think he was the best wrestler in the world in 2015? No, that belongs to AJ Styles but he certainly was, to me, the best wrestler in the WWE for 2015 and had excellent matches. Cena definitely deserves more respect from most fans, that's for sure.

Back to Nakamura, post Mania has him SWIMMING

 

[Good Ole Stannis's BBQ]

Wow...have you watched Styles that long? You've only seen Omega a handful of times, in one promotion, wrestling one style is enough for you to say he's better than Styles? Man, that I cannot understand. Now if you said you are a long time Japanese wrestling fan, follow it, have been watching Omega since he came in with Ibushi as the Golden Lovers and have seen the transformation of Omega, that's fine. We all have our opinions and taste but to form an opinion based on a handful of matches, or possibly even clips? Doesn't make you dumb, we all have our opinions, just some have more well formed opinions than others.

Anyhow, that's neither here nor there. Cena, on the otherhand, has been underrated by majority of the smarks for a while now. As I have admitted, I don't follow the product closely anymore but have made very close friends who send me messages on matches to watch etc. In 2015, I think Cena proved his worth as a wrestler. Now do I think he was the best wrestler in the world in 2015? No, that belongs to AJ Styles but he certainly was, to me, the best wrestler in the WWE for 2015 and had excellent matches. Cena definitely deserves more respect from most fans, that's for sure.

Back to Nakamura, post Mania has him SWIMMING

Give or take. I watched a lot of tna 2006-2012 as I was very down on Wwe and he's been there what 2-3 years now. Never got the hype and expected him to be ic/us title level if he ever came over. Obviously he's proven me wrong in that respect and has more fans than ever now.

You've never been blown away by a wrestler after one match/promo? I thought that Daniel Bryan for example was a special wrestler the first time that I saw him and he wouldn't be the type of performer that I'd usually gravitate towards. Jericho, punk and miz are wrestlers that I initially didn't see the fuss about but they made me a fan with their work years later.

Styles for whatever reason has never won me over past thinking that he's a very good wrestler who I usually just try and make a heel. Cena carried the biggest company on his back for years which is more impressive for me than having highlight reel matches in an environment with less pressure.

Heel Nak has potential and it will be easy for me to cheer him against Aj.

 

[GSPSAKU]

Give or take. I watched a lot of tna 2006-2012 as I was very down on Wwe and he's been there what 2-3 years now. Never got the hype and expected him to be ic/us title level if he ever came over. Obviously he's proven me wrong in that respect and has more fans than ever now.

You've never been blown away by a wrestler after one match/promo? I thought that Daniel Bryan for example was a special wrestler the first time that I saw him and he wouldn't be the type of performer that I'd usually gravitate towards. Jericho, punk and miz are wrestlers that I initially didn't see the fuss about but they made me a fan with their work years later.

Styles for whatever reason has never won me over past thinking that he's a very good wrestler who I usually just try and make a heel. Cena carried the biggest company on his back for years which is more impressive for me than having highlight reel matches in an environment with less pressure.

Heel Nak has potential and it will be easy for me to cheer him against Aj.

Oh yes, I've been blown away many times seeing clips of wrestlers or a single match. I recall seeing Amazing Red for the first time back in 2002 as I was graduating from high school as part of the SAT. I thought he was the greatest thing but after a year of following his every move, watching him in TNA/ROH and even traded a tape of a few Amazing Red matches when he wrestled in New Japan as Amazing Mysterio and Mysterio Red. By 2004, I realized I was blown away by his athleticism but realized he wasn't as good as I thought he was. He had a ton of moves but couldn't really put a match together and lacked psychology.

But that wasn't the point. What I was trying to convey was that I can't call someone the best based on a few matches. That's all but I am on board with Cena, to be able to do what he has done for the past 16 years is amazing and should be commended. We have to remember, Hogan did what Cena did but by year 7, Hogan was ready to call it quits. It's very tough to be the face, to be on the road, to do all the promotion and still put in the work in the gym and eventually in the ring.

 

[LuchaBear]

Roman has you on strings.

When your top wrestlers are Cena and Roman, it's you who's on his strings.

Spoiler

 

[Starman]

Give or take. I watched a lot of tna 2006-2012 as I was very down on Wwe and he's been there what 2-3 years now. Never got the hype and expected him to be ic/us title level if he ever came over. Obviously he's proven me wrong in that respect and has more fans than ever now.

You've never been blown away by a wrestler after one match/promo? I thought that Daniel Bryan for example was a special wrestler the first time that I saw him and he wouldn't be the type of performer that I'd usually gravitate towards. Jericho, punk and miz are wrestlers that I initially didn't see the fuss about but they made me a fan with their work years later.

Styles for whatever reason has never won me over past thinking that he's a very good wrestler who I usually just try and make a heel. Cena carried the biggest company on his back for years which is more impressive for me than having highlight reel matches in an environment with less pressure.

Heel Nak has potential and it will be easy for me to cheer him against Aj.

I think you and I have different opinions on what a good wrestler is. You mention Cena "carrying" the WWE on his back for "years", presumably referring to how many matches he's headlined, how much merch he sold to his PG-13 audience, and so on.

If that were the criteria for being a good wrestler, Hulk Hogan would be the greatest wrestler of all time.

What I, and most others I believe, are referring to is in-ring ability. Not ticket sales or selling t-shirts. For in-ring performance, Cena couldn't carry Styles's jockstrap.

I love what Cena does with the kids. I think he's a great role model and an asset for the company. But I have zero desire to watch him wrestle.

Styles I could watch all day. Go watch his TLC match with Dean Ambrose, and tell me what Cena ever did that comes close.

 

[LuchaBear]

Give or take. I watched a lot of tna 2006-2012 as I was very down on Wwe and he's been there what 2-3 years now. Never got the hype and expected him to be ic/us title level if he ever came over. Obviously he's proven me wrong in that respect and has more fans than ever now.

You've never been blown away by a wrestler after one match/promo? I thought that Daniel Bryan for example was a special wrestler the first time that I saw him and he wouldn't be the type of performer that I'd usually gravitate towards. Jericho, punk and miz are wrestlers that I initially didn't see the fuss about but they made me a fan with their work years later.

Styles for whatever reason has never won me over past thinking that he's a very good wrestler who I usually just try and make a heel. Cena carried the biggest company on his back for years which is more impressive for me than having highlight reel matches in an environment with less pressure.

Heel Nak has potential and it will be easy for me to cheer him against Aj.

Ya but we were talking about today. Not what you did over the years. I'm not sure what he's done lately to make you think he's the best today.

 

[Good Ole Stannis's BBQ]

When your top wrestlers are Cena and Roman, it's you who's on his strings.

Spoiler

Motivated Randy orton> styles.
On a side note the song in the trailer for that movie was stuck in my head for so long.

I think you and I have different opinions on what a good wrestler is. You mention Cena "carrying" the WWE on his back for "years", presumably referring to how many matches he's headlined, how much merch he sold to his PG-13 audience, and so on.

If that were the criteria for being a good wrestler, Hulk Hogan would be the greatest wrestler of all time.

What I, and most others I believe, are referring to is in-ring ability. Not ticket sales or selling t-shirts. For in-ring performance, Cena couldn't carry Styles's jockstrap.

I love what Cena does with the kids. I think he's a great role model and an asset for the company. But I have zero desire to watch him wrestle.

Styles I could watch all day. Go watch his TLC match with Dean Ambrose, and tell me what Cena ever did that comes close.

We probably do but I was including plenty of good matches in that. Different tastes I guess. I've never been as excited for a big styles match like I was for rock or punk matches with John. See even here, I don't really like gimmick matches. I recall their backlash match being surprisingly good though and I've never cared much for Ambrose either even though he's a good wrestler too.