Objectively horrible crap done by consensus-good US Presidents

Studying it for school? Degree?

I didn't know that either but believe me I looked it up after you made this thread and learned something new, thanks.

However I take history like it is. Teddy was born in 1858... things were just different then. Coupled with that, he was born in New York, not Arkansas. I'm pretty sure the average person back then were indoctrinated with certain beliefs. Yes Teddy is a face on Mt. Rushmore and was a POTUS... higher standard right? Well, like all Presidents, they are human beings, nobody is perfect. Look at Obama, his pastor of 20 years was racist and anti-American... 20 years of feeding Barack and Mr. Obama became President. Nobody is perfect... this doesn't excuse Teddy but he's a man of his time.
Yeah I'm the old guy back in school. I know you're a lot smarter than your persona here, you're welcome.

Definitely a product of his time, it's just that he was pretty egalitarian for his time (toward Americans anyway) even if he was racist by our standards and privately more racist than he let on. That's one area where I had some appreciation for the guy.
 
lol it's simpler than that. Slavery is on my mind because I'm studying it, so that's probably why I chose that example. I just found out recently about that pardon, and I thought it was out of character for Teddy, because I would have expected him to publicly celebrate the sentencing of a slaver in the early 20th century. It got me thinking about what other horrible shit "good" US Presidents have done. Like generally peace-loving Carter breaking character and aiding Suharto's slaughter in East Timor.

Studying it for school? Degree?

I didn't know that either but believe me I looked it up after you made this thread and learned something new, thanks.

However I take history like it is. Teddy was born in 1858... things were just different then. Coupled with that, he was born in New York, not Arkansas. I'm pretty sure the average person back then were indoctrinated with certain beliefs. Yes Teddy is a face on Mt. Rushmore and was a POTUS... higher standard right? Well, like all Presidents, they are human beings, nobody is perfect. Look at Obama, his pastor of 20 years was racist and anti-American... 20 years of feeding Barack and Mr. Obama became President. Nobody is perfect... this doesn't excuse Teddy but he's a man of his time.

These posts are why I think you’re both criminally underrated as posters.
 
These posts are why I think you’re both criminally underrated as posters.
Thanks but I'm comfortable being the intolerant librul who steals all his material and wants western civ to prolapse
 
How about Obama being the clandestine war president?

Historically, I would point to LBJ being one of the biggest warhawks in history, and yet getting credit for the civil rights act. Legislating equality through law is quite an accomplishment, I don't think it makes up for carpet bombing millions.
 
Thanks but I'm comfortable being the intolerant librul who steals all his material and wants western civ to prolapse

Don’t get too sappy, I didn’t say you were good. Just underrated.
 
Dubya, and his Bailouts of the Wall Street banks. Go ahead, and tell us how it is really for the good of everyone.

<GSPWoah> <GSPWoah> <GSPWoah>

<JonesDXSuckIt> <JonesDXSuckIt> <JonesDXSuckIt>
 
I know it's kind of a problematic topic for a few reasons, but I had hoped the example I gave might set the tone. Jackson is (for some reason) seen as good, but there's the really obvious Trail of Tears shenanigans/murder. Maybe this is more of a trivia thread.

Let's go with Wikipedia's aggregate top 20 or so:

Abraham Lincoln
Franklin D. Roosevelt
George Washington
Theodore Roosevelt
Thomas Jefferson
Harry S. Truman
Woodrow Wilson
Dwight D. Eisenhower
Andrew Jackson
John F. Kennedy
Barack Obama
James K. Polk
Lyndon B. Johnson
James Madison
John Adams
Ronald Reagan
James Monroe
Bill Clinton
William McKinley
Grover Cleveland
William McKinley killed my people.
 
Good thread idea. Has potential. Waiting for some more posters answers who haven't checked in yet.
 
No mention yet of Bay of Pigs?

That was not only a collosal fuck up - it was also a dick move which resulted in Kennedy looking soft to Khrushchev. This lead directly to the Cuban Missile Crisis, which was nearly the end of the world.
 
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Have you read any of his books on that topic? Chomsky does not compliment Venezuelan democracy lol. There are plenty of quotes by him explaining the failures of the Bolivarians.

Also, instead of attacking the man, do you disagree with his point that Teddy was a huge charlatan who put on a lot of dog and pony shows? Seems like a pretty standard thing....kind of hard to disagree with.

In my oppinion Tedy Roosevelt is everything that is wrong with your nation.
 
Lyndon B. Johnson pulling out his giant dick all the time which he nicknamed 'Jumbo'. Look it up.
 
This is kind of random but I believe Trotsky and Lenin believed that Communism had to be a global affair while Stalin didn't have that belief.

So if Trotsky had succeeded Lenin instead of Stalin historically it may have given more weight to the domino theory and the red scare.

But Stalin won and wanted his buffer region and reneged on the Yalta conference which gave the west all the reason they needed to think Stalin was a Globalist like Lenin.

Looking back it's kind of interesting to see that Trotsky was the man who built the military of a revolution while Stalin was a just a bureaucrat that played the system and beat out the true believers and became the face of communism

Yep, you're right in all of this, although there is some disagreement and ambiguity as to how classically marxian, noble and world-economy-oriented Lenin was, given that he was a right-communist and did state, back off, and eventually renew the approach that would later be termed Leninism: capture of the state apparatus and representation of the proletariat by the central bureaucracy, instead of ground-up fomenting of economic organization and productivity. You can go back and forth on whether the Leninist approach and the NEP era was just a temporary transitional state to fund the European revolution (this was certainly the position of Trotsky) or whether Lenin was just an opportunist rolling with the punches.

In my oppinion Tedy Roosevelt is everything that is wrong with your nation.

Yeesh, I wouldn't go that far. Do tell.
 
Yep, you're right in all of this, although there is some disagreement and ambiguity as to how classically marxian, noble and world-economy-oriented Lenin was, given that he was a right-communist and did state, back off, and eventually renew the approach that would later be termed Leninism: capture of the state apparatus and representation of the proletariat by the central bureaucracy, instead of ground-up fomenting of economic organization and productivity. You can go back and forth on whether the Leninist approach and the NEP era was just a temporary transitional state to fund the European revolution (this was certainly the position of Trotsky) or whether Lenin was just an opportunist rolling with the punches.



Yeesh, I wouldn't go that far. Do tell.

I may be wrong though and I am open to change my views about the man if I can read more stuff about him.
 
i think this question is maybe more interesting if you flip it. but um bill clinton maybe comes to mind. but can you sexually assault women and still be a good president? doubt it.
 
How about Obama being the clandestine war president?

Historically, I would point to LBJ being one of the biggest warhawks in history, and yet getting credit for the civil rights act. Legislating equality through law is quite an accomplishment, I don't think it makes up for carpet bombing millions.

Did he carpet bomb millions in hopes that he wouldn't be labeled a commie for pushing the Civil Rights Movement and The Great Society?
 
Yeah I'm the old guy back in school. I know you're a lot smarter than your persona here, you're welcome.

Definitely a product of his time, it's just that he was pretty egalitarian for his time (toward Americans anyway) even if he was racist by our standards and privately more racist than he let on. That's one area where I had some appreciation for the guy.
Good for you man. Degree in what? I'm heading back myself actually to finish up my BA in CIS, cyber security. I live by a University so I'm looking for bikes right now so i can be that cool dude who doesn't have to worry about parking. Can't wait... mostly to troll the hard left college kids and professors. Oh man it's going to be fun.
 
Who was the president with the huge cock, used to wave it around in meetings. Even attended meetings completely nude. How would that go over today?
 
I was "crying" about the chemical weapons attack on civilians, yes.

Is there a strong moral argument in favor of Assad gassing his people? Is that debatable?
I mean, killing >250k people with nukes when the war was all but over is pretty bad. But yeah, allegedly gassing 40 people to death in a civil war against the world's current largest enemy is definitely worse.
 
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