Objectively horrible crap done by consensus-good US Presidents

[PolishHeadlock]

So the "Army of Islam" is just a civilian uprising

Not to mention that there were alternative to nuking 2 cities, you know like negotiating different terms of surrender.

Negotiating what? Even after the Nukes there was almost a military coup to stop Japan from surrendering.

The type of surrender Japan was willing to accept would have been akin to accepting a German surrender without deNazification.

The goal wasn't just surrender it was a complete regime change under American supervision.

 

[Kframe]

So the "Army of Islam" is just a civilian uprising

Not to mention that there were alternative to nuking 2 cities, you know like negotiating different terms of surrender.

That is a big assumption you are making in thinking Japan would have surrendered. The only other plan being considered at the time other then the bombs was Operation Downfall.

 

[Trotsky]

Chomsky is probably the worst source to read on any topic involving left and Latin America, the guy thinks Venezuela is a democracy.

Have you read any of his books on that topic? Chomsky does not compliment Venezuelan democracy lol. There are plenty of quotes by him explaining the failures of the Bolivarians.

Also, instead of attacking the man, do you disagree with his point that Teddy was a huge charlatan who put on a lot of dog and pony shows? Seems like a pretty standard thing....kind of hard to disagree with.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

I know. Wait a couple decades.

We'll all be dead from Trump

 

[Fawlty]

Kinda lost as I had never heard of Teds investigation of Peonage. But was it such a crime that he should suck a fuck in hell? If it was a political stunt, then I kinda shrug as all politicians are want to do that kind of thing.

Well, sucking a fuck in hell is kind of an unknown quantity. I'm not sure what that would be like. But pardoning a slaver is really, really bad, even for Teddy, who I already don't like as much as most people do. It has to be one of the filthiest pardons in US history. The investigation was probably a political stunt, but the pardon is the cold word of law.

 

[DespicablePeep]

Have you read any of his books on that topic? Chomsky does not compliment Venezuelan democracy lol. There are plenty of quotes by him explaining the failures of the Bolivarians.

He was in full support of Chavez and acts as if Maduro is a rupture from him when its just the consequence. Chavez ran down a country and manipulated numbers for the world to believe in his govt, Chomsky was just one of the voices supporting this fraud.

Could care less about Teddy other than his bigger than life persona, just find funny how a hack like Chomsky gets mentioned.

 

[Fawlty]

I dont think there is much to discuss except the massive cognitive dissonance of a lot of Americans.

The same guy who says gassing people during a war is evil says nuking and irradiating 2 entire cities shouldnt even make a bad things list because its up to debate whether these 100k to 200k civilians deserved to be turned into radioactive ash.

I'm also deferring to the consensus itt, or trying to. The consensus on the nukes (in the US) is that they saved a long and bloody end to the war. I don't agree with that. My opinion of it is complicated, it's difficult for me. But it wasn't something that every person can look at and see how completely wrong it was.

 

[Fawlty]

Reagan did nothing wrong
Reagan did nothing wrong
Reagan did nothing wrong
Reagan did nothing wrong
Reagan did nothing wrong
Reagan did nothing wrong
Reagan did nothing wrong
Reagan did nothing wrong
Reagan did nothing wrong
Reagan did nothing wrong
Reagan did nothing wrong

whoa you hacked the Fox News rss feed you tha man

 

[jefferz]

They had POW camps. As far as I'm aware, they weren't random civilians.

We put German and Italian citizens in internment camps. The numbers weren't anywhere near the Japanese.
You should check out the book The Train to Crystal City. It's a book with first hand accounts from people living in the Crystal City internment.

 

[Trotsky]

He was in full support of Chavez and acts as if Maduro is a rupture from him when its just the consequence. Chavez ran down a country and manipulated numbers for the world to believe in his govt, Chomsky was just one of the voices supporting this fraud.

You don't seem to know what you're talking about. Of course Chomsky supported Chavez's break from oligarchy and neoliberalism - most of the international world did. However, he also openly criticized the later creation of the petro-state. Also, Chavez didn't "run down" the country, as he did oversee great gains in GDP, living standards, literacy, etc. but unwisely tied it to the persistence of oil value.

Could care less about Teddy other than his bigger than life persona, just find funny how a hack like Chomsky gets mentioned.

Okay, so you chimed in on a subject you're not familiar with to make irrelevant (and erroneous) criticisms of a person's opinion on it?

It's funny: I'm often confronted with criticisms of actually controversial figures that I support or qualify in defense such as Trotsky, Chavez, and Castro - and often they are valid. But I have never once (once) been confronted with a valid criticism of Chomsky, let alone an assertion that he's a "hack." Seems that, consistently, the persons deriding him just aren't willing to heed to his words, or are not able to.

 

[Fawlty]

Oh look at the virtue signaling here. Must. Talk. About. Slavery. Can't you think outside the box for once?

I bet less than 50% of posters here even knew the term "peonage."

Of course we should talk about slavery. We shouldn't ever stop talking about it. But that's not the topic of this thread, so contribute, fuck off, or give me eight hundred dollars.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

You don't seem to know what you're talking about. Of course Chomsky supported Chavez's break from oligarchy and neoliberalism - most of the international world did. However, he also openly criticized the later creation of the petro-state. Also, Chavez didn't "run down" the country, as he did oversee great gains in GDP, living standards, literacy, etc. but unwisely tied it to the persistence of oil value.



Okay, so you chimed in on a subject you're not familiar with to make irrelevant (and erroneous) criticisms of a person's opinion on it?

It's funny: I'm often confronted with criticisms of actually controversial figures that I support or qualify in defense such as Trotsky, Chavez, and Castro - and often they are valid. But I have never once (once) been confronted with a valid criticism of Chomsky, let alone an assertion that he's a "hack." Seems that, consistently, the persons deriding him just aren't willing to heed to his words, or are not able to.

This is kind of random but I believe Trotsky and Lenin believed that Communism had to be a global affair while Stalin didn't have that belief.

So if Trotsky had succeeded Lenin instead of Stalin historically it may have given more weight to the domino theory and the red scare.

But Stalin won and wanted his buffer region and reneged on the Yalta conference which gave the west all the reason they needed to think Stalin was a Globalist like Lenin.

Looking back it's kind of interesting to see that Trotsky was the man who built the military of a revolution while Stalin was a just a bureaucrat that played the system and beat out the true believers and became the face of communism

 

[Kframe]

Well, sucking a fuck in hell is kind of an unknown quantity. I'm not sure what that would be like. But pardoning a slaver is really, really bad, even for Teddy, who I already don't like as much as most people do. It has to be one of the filthiest pardons in US history. The investigation was probably a political stunt, but the pardon is the cold word of law.

A racist, pardoned another racist. Most all whites were racist back then. I'm not surprised. Not that it makes it better or good.

 

[Rod1]

I'm also deferring to the consensus itt, or trying to. The consensus on the nukes (in the US) is that they saved a long and bloody end to the war. I don't agree with that. My opinion of it is complicated, it's difficult for me. But it wasn't something that every person can look at and see how completely wrong it was.

Im not going to judge America over the nukes people were pissed back then and it was a brutal war.

I use the same standard for Syria.

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

I bet less than 50% of posters here even knew the term "peonage."

Of course we should talk about slavery. We shouldn't ever stop talking about it. But that's not the topic of this thread, so contribute, fuck off, or give me eight hundred dollars.

I did contribute, I told you how basic you are. Oh wow "peonage"... i guess that doesn't make you a pleb then?

$800? You better come with bottle service for my wife, our lady friends we fuck with and a nice table up top.

 

[Fawlty]

I did contribute, I told you how basic you are. Oh wow "peonage"... i guess that doesn't make you a pleb then?

$800? You better come with bottle service for my wife, our lady friends we fuck with and a nice table up top.

Doesn't have anything to do with "plebs" or whatever. There's a ridiculous amount of stuff about history I know very little about. I appreciate being introduced to new info, like the different systems of slavery that existed after it was outlawed, and how we handled them. It's instructive. Peonage can be compared to today's for-profit prisons, for instance. It's good to know stuff. I want to know more stuff.

I'll put Popov in bottles of Crystal Head.

 

[Shoemaker]

Dump

#SaltyAboutFawlty

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

I'll put Popov in bottles of Crystal Head.

I agree with you on being learned on history, regardless of what it is, I just find it odd out of all the various actions of past Presidents you chose the "slavery" route, so I called you out on it as typical leftist Sherdog virtue signaling. Perhaps I'm wrong, no harm no foul.

Carry on.

 

[Fawlty]

I agree with you on being learned on history, regardless of what it is, I just find it odd out of all the various actions of past Presidents you chose the "slavery" route, so I called you out on it as typical leftist Sherdog virtue signaling. Perhaps I'm wrong, no harm no foul.

Carry on.

lol it's simpler than that. Slavery is on my mind because I'm studying it, so that's probably why I chose that example. I just found out recently about that pardon, and I thought it was out of character for Teddy, because I would have expected him to publicly celebrate the sentencing of a slaver in the early 20th century. It got me thinking about what other horrible shit "good" US Presidents have done. Like generally peace-loving Carter breaking character and aiding Suharto's slaughter in East Timor.

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

lol it's simpler than that. Slavery is on my mind because I'm studying it, so that's probably why I chose that example. I just found out recently about that pardon, and I thought it was out of character for Teddy, because I would have expected him to publicly celebrate the sentencing of a slaver in the early 20th century. It got me thinking about what other horrible shit "good" US Presidents have done. Like generally peace-loving Carter breaking character and aiding Suharto's slaughter in East Timor.

Studying it for school? Degree?

I didn't know that either but believe me I looked it up after you made this thread and learned something new, thanks.

However I take history like it is. Teddy was born in 1858... things were just different then. Coupled with that, he was born in New York, not Arkansas. I'm pretty sure the average person back then were indoctrinated with certain beliefs. Yes Teddy is a face on Mt. Rushmore and was a POTUS... higher standard right? Well, like all Presidents, they are human beings, nobody is perfect. Look at Obama, his pastor of 20 years was racist and anti-American... 20 years of feeding Barack and Mr. Obama became President. Nobody is perfect... this doesn't excuse Teddy but he's a man of his time.