Official Women's Division Discussion #27

Don't know of the contracts for Velasquez or Macfarlane. Fun to speculate where they'd be in the ufc. Another question to figure is what division would they choose. Still, I consider it a parlor game with no certainty, as reflected by varying points of view here and not knowing how they'd choose to fight various opponents.

Velasquez mentioned post-fight that she intends to be a good champion for Bellator. From the lead up to the fight and the way she reacted post fight (humble in victory respectful to former champ) I'm gonna take her at her word. For now.

Macfarlane shows little interest in going to the ufc. In pre-fight media (which I posted above) she's asked why both fighters are so respectful toward each other, with little drama. She replied it's due to Mr. Coker and the way he runs his organization. He's probably been paying her well for some time. Macfarlane added that Coker booked wmma fights before 'someone else' made statements like (in voice of unnamed goof): 'Women will never fight in my organization.'

Therefore doubt either fighter is going anywhere in near future. I like seeing them in Bellator. Feel any competition versus ufc is healthy for all and gives us other days & times to watch mma. Velasquez I feel is the more well-rounded. Felt that going in and coming out of their five rounder.

By the way, all three judges had the decision for Velasquez. Scores were 48-47, 49-47 & 48-47. I'd have scored first three rounds to Velasquez and maybe the fifth. Velasquez fought safe, which made good sense for a title fight and one in which Macfarlane presented some threats on the ground. Great game planning & execution by Velasquez & her corner.
 
Torres vs. Hughes. Torres.
Sam Hughes could have a bright future but probably not against the quicker & more experienced Torres on six or so days' notice. Sam has an amazing nickname 'Sampage.' After facing that murderer's row and then soundly defeating Van Buren, Tiny Tornado should notch another victory.

Hoping Angela Hill gets healthy soon. Look forward to her return.

Dern vs. Jandiroba. Dern.
While Dern's the favorite the odds are quite close. Intrigued by this one. Going out on a limb I'm surprised the odds are close. Dern is noticeably improving fight to fight. Seems she's beginning to get the hang of mma. Taking it more seriously. Took her a while to find the right camp, keep on weight. Expecting more noticeable improvements as I think she's has genuine athletic prowess & is a quick learner. Jandiroba is good at bjj but not particularly great at striking. I think Dern will get her to the ground & take a limb. As promised I went out on a limb here.
 
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Rizz said:
If we are being honest Velasquez was a nightmare matchup because she would be the 1st non can opponent Ilima faced.
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Hey c'mon, Letourneau, Ducote and even Cornish Kate aren't cans. Trying to imagine a Val v Velasquez match--up, what's the opposite of a barnburner again?

Tecia Torres looked great in her last outing but this is a no-win for her, probably a tough fight and no kudos when she wins. I'm a fan of Dern, looking for her to slap the imposter down, but being invested in a fighter often clouds the judgement. Disappointed that Robertson lost her big show spot, guess it doesn't mean much in the Covid era though.
 
Askafan said:
Hey c'mon, Letourneau, Ducote and even Cornish Kate aren't cans. Trying to imagine a Val v Velasquez match--up, what's the opposite of a barnburner again?

Tecia Torres looked great in her last outing but this is a no-win for her, probably a tough fight and no kudos when she wins. I'm a fan of Dern, looking for her to slap the imposter down, but being invested in a fighter often clouds the judgement. Disappointed that Robertson lost her big show spot, guess it doesn't mean much in the Covid era though.
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Ducote is a can at 125. She was severely undersized. She also noticed this which is why she asked to be released from Bellator since they won't open 115. She wanted a chance to save her record before it began to look like Celina Hagas record. I agree she is not a can at her right weight class of 115 but this is clearly not what we are talking about. Look at the difference size makes, Ham is the best 105er but she lost to Bec Rawlings at 115.

Kate is overrated. Look at her record and name me one good fighter she beat. Don't be fooled because she beat a few pretty girls before her title shot. A title shot that should have gone to Velasquez but Bellator wanted to give Ilima a manageable fight in her home town.

Val is also overrated due to getting a title shot in the UFC. Remember this was the early days of 135 and 115. Take a closer look at how she got that title shot. Do you think wins over Jessica Rakozy, Liz Phillips and Maryna Moroz would qualify you for a title shot at 115 these days? Would it even qualify you to be ranked at all? Two of those fights were at 135. Both Phillips and Rakoczy both instantly flamed out of the UFC. The only decent fighter she beat was Maryna Moroz. After getting the title shot she went (2 - 4). One of those losses coming to Viviane Pereira who like Ducote was clearly too small for the division which is why she also went down to her real division of 105lbs.

Look I don't randomly call fighters cans. I have my reasons. It is subjective but if those 3 are the best names on your record then your record is not much. Remember what I said a few months ago. If Jessica Eye or JoJo had the same career path as Ilima they would also have been seen as elite. Level of competition is so important and in the past I showed you just how stark the level difference was between Ilima vs JoJo and Eye.
 
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Rizz said:
Ducote is a can at 125. She was severely undersized. She also noticed this which is why she asked to be released from Bellator since they won't open 115. She wanted a chance to save her record before it began to look like Celina Hagas record. I agree she is not a can at her right weight class of 115 but this is clearly not what we are talking about.

Kate is overrated. Look at her record and name me one good fighter she beat. Don't be fooled because she beat a few pretty girls before her title shot. A title shot that should have gone to Velasquez but Bellator wanted to give Ilima a manageable fight in her home town.

Val is also overrated due to getting a title shot in the UFC. Remember this was the early days of 135 and 115. Take a closer look at how she got that title shot. Do you think wins over Jessica Rakozy, Liz Phillips and Maryna Moroz would qualify you for a title shot at 115 these days? Would it even qualify you to be ranked at all? Two of those fights were at 135. Both Phillips and Rakoczy both instantly flamed out of the UFC. The only decent fighter she beat was Maryna Moroz. After getting the title shot she went (2 - 4). One of those losses coming to Viviane Pereira who like Ducote was clearly too small for the division which is why she also went down to her real division of 105lbs.

Look I don't call randomly call fighters cans. I have my reasons. It is subjective but if those 3 are the best names on your record then you record is not much. Remember what I said a few months ago. If Jessica Eye or JoJo had the same career path as Ilima they would also have been seen as elite. Level of competition is so important and in the past I showed you just how stark the level difference was between Ilima vs JoJo and Eye.
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Letourneau got the title fight because she beat Moroz who beat JoJo, they were really high on Calderwood back then. I guess it all depends on your definition of a can - it certainly isn't a compliment ...... for me Anjela Pink is a can, not fighters who fought for belts in legitimate organizations.
 
I'm curious will Denise Kielholtz be getting the first shot at Juliana Velasquez since she is on
a win streak and the rest of 125 is coming off a single win or a loss if it isn't Juliana Velasquez
or Denise Kielholtz.
 
Askafan said:
they were really high on Calderwood back then.
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They still are to an extent. She was scheduled to fight for the title, which was completely unjustified, since the division's inception:

Moves up after two back to back losses at 115. Fights fighter coming off two back to back losses as well, gets controlled for most of the fight and wins by a last second submission.

Gets a promotional debutant for her next fight, which she rightfully wins. But somehow that merits getting matched up against a higher ranked opponent, in a title eliminator (had Calderwood won, she would've gotten the immediate title shot).

Gets a split decision win against someone out of the Top 5, and that's enough for her to get a title shot. No winning streak, no highlight reel finishes, no big wins, nothing.

She chose to take a short notice fight against a better fighter, and as expected, she lost. HOWEVER, let her get another win over someone ranked below her or even an unranked fighter, and she'll be right back in title contention.



msm1981 said:
I'm curious will Denise Kielholtz be getting the first shot at Juliana Velasquez since she is on
a win streak and the rest of 125 is coming off a single win or a loss if it isn't Juliana Velasquez
or Denise Kielholtz.
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Me think they'll likely give it to Carmouche after another win. She's one of the big names in that division.
 
msm1981 said:
I'm curious will Denise Kielholtz be getting the first shot at Juliana Velasquez since she is on
a win streak and the rest of 125 is coming off a single win or a loss if it isn't Juliana Velasquez
or Denise Kielholtz.
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It's not impossible but they've also signed Carmouche and Porto who are developed talent, and denise could use more experience.

Now actually seems like a great time to do that women's tournament.
Velasquez
Carmouche
Porto
Kielholtz
Lara
MacFarlane
Rawlings
Bennett/ Letourneau
Alt bout: Jackson vs arteaga
 
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Askafan said:
Letourneau got the title fight because she beat Moroz who beat JoJo, they were really high on Calderwood back then. I guess it all depends on your definition of a can - it certainly isn't a compliment ...... for me Anjela Pink is a can, not fighters who fought for belts in legitimate organizations.
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Thinking about it some I think can might have been too harsh. I should have said below average. My feeling remain the same but but I should probably reserve the usage of can for fighters like that girl who was meant to fight Valerie for her debut.
 
Kuksenkov said:
They still are to an extent. She was scheduled to fight for the title, which was completely unjustified, since the division's inception:

Moves up after two back to back losses at 115. Fights fighter coming off two back to back losses as well, gets controlled for most of the fight and wins by a last second submission.

Gets a promotional debutant for her next fight, which she rightfully wins. But somehow that merits getting matched up against a higher ranked opponent, in a title eliminator (had Calderwood won, she would've gotten the immediate title shot).

Gets a split decision win against someone out of the Top 5, and that's enough for her to get a title shot. No winning streak, no highlight reel finishes, no big wins, nothing.

She chose to take a short notice fight against a better fighter, and as expected, she lost. HOWEVER, let her get another win over someone ranked below her or even an unranked fighter, and she'll be right back in title contention.





Me think they'll likely give it to Carmouche after another win. She's one of the big names in that division.
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If by big name you mean she has “UFC veteran” next to her name, sure. Her claims to fame are losing to Ronda, and being 1/2 of the most boring women’s title fight in UFC history where she did fuck all for five rounds and got cut as a reward.
 
Askafan said:
Have the forums even noticed the US sanctions on FC Akhmat Grozny? Hope there's no adverse impact on these three sweet ladies.

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What for, harboring Weapons of Mass Destruction?
Perhaps they're trying to prevent any more unfortunate armed and dangerous 'seductive Russian spy' incidents (in which case Valentina better be careful as well)?

At least Liana's nose is doing better, as she would like to show us:
 
leto1776 said:
If by big name you mean she has “UFC veteran” next to her name, sure. Her claims to fame are losing to Ronda, and being 1/2 of the most boring women’s title fight in UFC history where she did fuck all for five rounds and got cut as a reward.
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All of that, plus: Fought for Strike force and Invicta main cards. But just being a UFC veteran is all she needs, Bellator loves to snatch up fighters like that.

The commentators were awful during last night's card, "that one champion in that one organization", "trains with Frankie Edgar", "I know one guy.... ANDERSON SILVA", "he's got a win over Petr Yan x5". They want to shade the UFC, while wanting to be like them SO BAD.
 
What makes no sense to me is Bellator possibly would pass on Denise Kielholtz when it comes
to title shots since she has been loyal to Bellator going back to Bellator Kickboxing when Liz
Carmouche was a later on signing that previously fought elsewhere.
 
Surprised No one has mentioned Bella Mir. She choked a girl out last night in under 2 minutes to improve to 2-0 at just 17 years old. The sky really is the limit for her if she really has the work ethic people say she does. The downside? Her fight last night was at featherweight and the girl she beat typically fights at strawweight so....
 
Very happy for Torres, she's my all time favorite straw weight, but I'm a little concerned for Hughes. It might have been a trick of the light, but in the cage after the fight, it looked like her left iris was red. I don't think I have ever seen that before. I hope her eye isn't seriously damaged.
 
SpecialAgentFoxMulder said:
Surprised No one has mentioned Bella Mir. She choked a girl out last night in under 2 minutes to improve to 2-0 at just 17 years old. The sky really is the limit for her if she really has the work ethic people say she does. The downside? Her fight last night was at featherweight and the girl she beat typically fights at strawweight so....
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I had no idea she fought so thank you for mentioning it.
 
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