Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by rmongler, Feb 17, 2015.
It’s “pressure release” the better you are, the less pressure you need
Chsiev is a greco, freestyle, sambo, judo, or bjj guy?
He does freestyle along with sub grappling competitions. Perhaps sambo too. He's had a few mma fights as well.
Popovitch vs Chsiev is a very interesting grappling/wrestling battle. Pablo took wrestling very seriously, he trained under a Georgian Olympian down in Florida and I believe he entered the US Open and a few other high level freestyle tournaments. I was really looking forward to his MMA career but it was very short-lived.
Chsiev vs Arona is another hypothetical I'd love to see in either the old style ADCC or MMA.
He is a freestyle wrestler.
Where he learns his submissions?
He trains in K-Dojo. Rustam makes up a lot of his moves himself.
K-Dojo in NJ?
that pretty cool.
Chsiev is from Vladikavkaz iirc, so I would presume he knows how to wrestle very well. Not sure if he was ever good enough to compete internationally, but training wrestling in Ossetia would definitely make you very good.
As far as I know, he has been repping the K-Dojo gym in Fairfield NJ for years.
You can tell Chisiev is damn good though by looking at those NYAC matches. He keeps it close with most everybody and scores on all of them. He defeated at least 1 NCAA DI All American at those tournaments and he got screwed out of a win over an Indian Olympian and world medalist. Damn good wrestler.
Side note, Reader is really friggin good. He had a good shot at making the world team this year at 79 kilo's but got hurt. Reader vs Dake would've been awesome.
Reader was D1 Champ 2 years before Rustam's match with Reader. Crazy.
You know anything about Rustam's wrestling background? I think he comes from a place where everyone and their mother wrestles from a young age but that's all I know.
Yeah he's from Ossetia in Russia. He was plugged into the Olympic style wrestling scene back there as a coach. He has competed mostly in submission grappling but has done a good deal of freestyle wrestling. He has defeated NCAA DI All Americans and even an NCAA DI champ and USA world team member in Keith Gavin. I don't know too much more about him.
1. Can you snapdown with a collar tie and (shallow?) underhook as opposed to a standard inside tie?
2. Is there a technique to the snapdown aside from stepping back as you do it and putting the collar tie hand on the crown of their head?
Yes, the underhook is actually the classic position for snapping down into a front headlock.
It seems easier to get into front headlock using a snapdown intitiated from a tricep tie as opposed to an underhook, is what I mean.
That would be an 'intuitive' sense, that two ties which are 'over' would be better for 'moving down' than a tie which is 'under', but like with mathematics, the more 'reflexive' ways a human might think about a problem might not necessarily be a more correct way.
The utility of an underhook to the snapdown situation cannot be considered in isolation. That is to say, with regards to other attacks that can be done with an underhook. In the first place, it is a fact that a lazy snap can in some ways be basically helping your opponent to shoot in on you, saving him the trouble of setting it up with you graciously doing it for him. In this case, the underhook also serves as a 'check valve', ensuring that your opponent stays under control throughout the proceedings, with much more limited ability to penetrate into the hips.
Furthermore, and in particular, for someone who wishes to avoid being snapped down, one of the most natural reactions is simply to tend towards a taller, more upright posture to resist; what happens when you have an underhook on someone who's standing tall? You can easily throw them by, or get a pinch headlock, or hit a knee tap, or turn them over your hip for a reverse headlock pin (the turn to the underhook side is what most people know, but from a pinch you can actually turn them the other way too, like how Sergei Beloglazov shows here:
Hence, if you have an underhook on someone (and are preventing them from getting an underhook), you essentially have them caught between a rock and a hard place. You can't always easily predict how a beginner will act (or how someone who's the best of the best and self-consciously aware of the game will act), but someone who's experienced will often try to take a 'lesser evil', denying the easiest approaches (so illustrated) by getting lower and putting pressure on your underhook (like this). It is for this reason that proficiency in snapping people down is a so valuable component of gaining success in neutral, in many different situations (especially against guys with highly defensive hips back crouched postures).
The collar tie is one of the most common (read, one of the most reflexive) tie-ups people go for, so tactics for playing off of an opponent going for collar ties pay dividends, and one of the most straitforward fundamental methods of doing so is simply arcing your elbow past their elbow to slot your underhook in.
OK. If I am understanding you correctly, you'r saying that the underhook, while perhaps less intuitive and more awkward to untrained individuals, is actually a superior position to the tricep/collar tie; that what you give up in marginal snapdown power you gain in versatility and control.
I was wondering if a tricep collar tie was superior positioning (at least for the snapdown and fireman's) compared to an underhook in part due to Rustam's video. He likes to work from the tricep collar tie and his snaps and fireman's carries are highly effective. The fireman's seems to be more awkward to pull from an underhook, so I was considering prioritizing the tricep collar tie above the underhook despite what I guess to be fewer offensive options and a highly counterable move (fireman's = crucifix).
I'm new to wrestling so figuring out the positional hierarchy has been challenging. Generally, double underhooks and front headlock seem to be superior positions due to the control and small number of high percentage counters the positions offer, but these positions are generally hard to get. Everything else seems like kind of a grey area, particularly whether one has the overhook or underhook. It seems like the skill gap doesn't need to be that big for someone with an overhook to reasonably counter or even attack the guy with the underhook. It's not like BJJ where mount, side control, and the back are objectively superior positions to any other kind of position.
In BJJ there are also certain things you generally can't do from certain positions. No one is really going to try to americana you from guard. Wrestling is much more fluid and indiscrete., any tie up can lead to a desired takedown and this seems to be in fact what many wrestlers do. Perhaps this is analogous to being able to hit an armbar from many places.
Thanks for your thoughtful answer.
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