PFL Couldnt Raise Capital, ESPN let's Exclusive Negotiating Window Lapse

[skylolow]

It's not that black and white.

Some of those leagues actually did get reasonable competitors decades into being the sole big league. The UFC has only been the premier MMA org for 15 years. NFL, MLB and NBA (or their direct predecessors) all had competitors that they had to merge with past 15 years into their existence.

Those leagues have the hegemony that they do because they are based on American sports and developed during a time when sports were more domesticated. You are also thinking too linearly and forgot that NCAA Basketball and NCAA Football (or for think that they do not count because they are amateur, which isn't really relevant as they are still businesses and spectator sports none the less). I am fairly certain that the NCAA Basketball is more profitable than the NBA at the very least, and NCAA Football is probably the 2nd most popular sport after NFL Football in the United States.

Lastly, those leagues are the biggest leagues in terms of $ because USA is the biggest market. They are not the biggest or most popular leagues everywhere. This has already started with the UFC, there are a couple of places where the UFC is not the most popular MMA org or at least not the sole show in town.

MMA is very much not a domesticated sport. It has many means (and already an established interest) in many different cultures, countries and demographics. So for the four sports and their respective leagues that you mentioned you could just as easily counter with cricket, rugby league/union and soccer. Sure, is EPL the most popular and the generates the most money, yeah - would anyone say EPL = Soccer? Not even close.

It's still possible that MMA can diverge into different competitive leagues as the sports grow. You bring up a great point with loyalty to sports brands but me and you are referencing are team sports which naturally acquire way more brand loyalty than individual sports. In individual sports it is the norm not the exception for there to be multiple promoters, circuits and sanctioning body based events.

Even Pro Wrestling/WWE, likely the closest comparison to MMA/UFC - the WWE has been the equivalent of the UFC in its field for maybe 30 years out of 100+ years of Pro Wrestling's existence. It took several decades for WWE to get there, and once it did get there it still had viable competitors rise during a time when people thought it was impossible.

Also, like the UFC, the WWE struggled to get into markets with its own domestic brands like Japan (where wrestling was actually bigger and more profitable in Japan than in America) and Mexico (which only recently the WWE has become a viable competitor to CMLL).



Long story short, thinking sports = NFL/NBA/NHL is erroneous and American-centric, and they are not even as dominant as you likely think they are. There are way more sports than just those 4. Most sports more popular than American-centric stuff are not dominated by one league. There are a lot of variables and factors that go into this and if Jeff Bezzos wanted to have his own UFC he could with a fraction of his wealth.

Maybe Zuckerburg or Elon Musk's fight even gives them the idea to make their own MMA shit, and one year from now there is already a WWE vs WCW thing going on.

The UFC isn't Coca Cola yet there is still time for there to be viable competitor albeit it won't be any league that exist now (and even Coca Cola has had viable competitors including a company that was just Coca Cola-lite).

I think the UFC/MMA already went through what the NFL and other leagues went through with comp. growing up over decades of time. Very true a lot of them were along a long time and some had comp.. But once the money really started pouring in for one form it dried up quickly for everyone else.

The NFL is the worlds highest revenue generating sport by a long shot. Last year I believe they were like 19B and newest media deals when they kick in I believe they are pushing like 22-23B with a goal of 25B by 2027.

IPL is like 10 to 11B
MLB is like 10B
NBA is like 10B
EPL is like 7B
NHL is like 5B
La Liga is like 4B

US centric or domestic or whatever the numbers are the numbers. MMA is so niche that the UFC was able to basically brand MMA=UFC to the common person. Same with NFL with football, NBA with hockey, etc. I just don't think there is a market for a massive number 2 org. in MMA and it would take years and 100's of millions to get anyone even close. What your talking about with Zuckerberg or Musk is what happen with Mark Cuban. He had everything in the world going for him outside of the fighters themselves and he learned very quickly that this was battle that chances of success were very slim and not worth the risk. Even Viacom with Bellator. If it was just money to turn Bellator in a potential 1B or more company they'd have no problem putting more money in it. They have learned that it just isn't that simple and obliviously don't think the battle is worth the risk. I think the perfect timing would've been 2007ish to 2010 for a competitor to really push the UFC. Someone could've collected talent quickly(ie: buying orgs like the UFC did) and media catalogs. Today your starting from almost scratch. I think this whole PFL/Bellator sale talk or whatever is going on that is kind of the goal of it all. Combining two of bigger orgs together to be able to put on better shows consistently and hopefully with it all coming together a media deal that can support the org and only grow from there.

WWE/WCW battles was kind of perfect storm that occurred. WWE was ready to move on from the old guard that built the WWE to what it was at that time. WCW was willing to pay for those pieces and happen to write probably the greatest storyline in Pro Wrestling history with the NWO. All that coming together perfectly is what caught fans attention. UFC contracts and the way they do business I think they learned from the WWE what can happen and they geared business to not allow that to ever happen. Today the AEW is no risk to the WWE. They take in around 100M a year and are doing great. WWE is north of 300M and some very big media deals coming up that will probably push them well over 400M if not pushing 500M with Endeavour running the shit on the media deal side. I also believe its much different in Pro Wrestling to build an org since you can literally control every aspect of the sport entertainment. In sports you don't have that control and it makes it way harder to gain traction in the market.

 

[GueseGuy]

PFL is bleeding money, never made a single dollar in their whole existence and people expect them to buy Bellator. The comedy on this forum never ceases to amaze me. These mma fans should start a comedy routine. You all would make a killing.

 

[TorontoTO]

PFL is bleeding money, never made a single dollar in their whole existence and people expect them to buy Bellator. The comedy on this forum never ceases to amaze me. These mma fans should start a comedy routine. You all would make a killing.

Great to have you back, haven’t seen you in a while

 

[GueseGuy]

Great to have you back, haven’t seen you in a while

Thanks bro. Nice to see you're here still holding down the fort. I'll be in and out until Bellator is sold and we figure this whole thing out. Not much to talk about with cards so far spread out. UFC sucks and PFL is a sham. Only ones doing it the right way is Bellator. Hopefully we get a nice resolution to all these sale rumors.

 

[Uncertainly Principled]

The NFL is the worlds highest revenue generating sport by a long shot. Last year I believe they were like 19B and newest media deals when they kick in I believe they are pushing like 22-23B with a goal of 25B by 2027.

IPL is like 10 to 11B
MLB is like 10B
NBA is like 10B
EPL is like 7B
NHL is like 5B
La Liga is like 4B

No offence, but by my reckoning actual football (soccer as I presume you call it) clearly generates more income & your numbers seem to support that.

The EPL is just the top tier of the English football pyramid.
La Liga is just the top tier of the Spanish football pyramid.
There are literally THOUSANDS of other football (soccer) leagues in the world, let alone the national, continental, intercontinental competitions (think Champions League, Copa Libertadora, European/South American/Asian Championships... I haven't even mentioned the World Cup).

Just a quick google for numbers turned up:
"The European football market grew 7% to €29.5 billion over the 2021/22 season, due to record matchday and commercial revenues."
https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pag...annual-review-of-football-finance-europe.html
That's just Europe.

The NFL is almost certainly financially "bigger" than any individual corporate soccer entity or league, but as a sport? No.

 

[David Street]

No offence, but by my reckoning actual football (soccer as I presume you call it) clearly generates more income & your numbers seem to support that.

The EPL is just the top tier of the English football pyramid.
La Liga is just the top tier of the Spanish football pyramid.
There are literally THOUSANDS of other football (soccer) leagues in the world, let alone the national, continental, intercontinental competitions (think Champions League, Copa Libertadora, European/South American/Asian Championships... I haven't even mentioned the World Cup).

Just a quick google for numbers turned up:
"The European football market grew 7% to €29.5 billion over the 2021/22 season, due to record matchday and commercial revenues."
https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pag...annual-review-of-football-finance-europe.html
That's just Europe.

The NFL is almost certainly financially "bigger" than any individual corporate soccer entity or league, but as a sport? No.

NFL has done a great job of making themselves synonymous with the USA holiday season. USA has other Leagues but like The Rocks, XFL they are barely avoiding bankruptcy.

Baseball's MLB did the same with spring summer images in the US.

UFC has not made themselves synonymous with any part of the USA yet but looking like the Republican party may be embracing it <45>.

UFC has made themselves synonymous with MMA in the USA to the few who know MMA.

PFL are not synonymous with anything here.

 

[jeskola]

Shit, things dont seem too good for MMA outside the UFC. Bellator in the chopping block and PFL not renewing with ESPN isnt good news. I guess PFL wont be buying Bellator afterall.

Just like EliteXC and Strikeforce, only it took longer. There is a reason we have one "Major League" for popular sports.

 

[skylolow]

No offence, but by my reckoning actual football (soccer as I presume you call it) clearly generates more income & your numbers seem to support that.

The EPL is just the top tier of the English football pyramid.
La Liga is just the top tier of the Spanish football pyramid.
There are literally THOUSANDS of other football (soccer) leagues in the world, let alone the national, continental, intercontinental competitions (think Champions League, Copa Libertadora, European/South American/Asian Championships... I haven't even mentioned the World Cup).

Just a quick google for numbers turned up:
"The European football market grew 7% to €29.5 billion over the 2021/22 season, due to record matchday and commercial revenues."
https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pag...annual-review-of-football-finance-europe.html
That's just Europe.

The NFL is almost certainly financially "bigger" than any individual corporate soccer entity or league, but as a sport? No.

I'm sure all the major leagues in Europe combine are right up there or even past the NFL.

I'm not the biggest soccer fan to know all the history of it. The point of the post was each sport through its history has had competitors and eventually a major league or conference or whatever in the end usually reigns supreme in the end and all the forms of that sport under it fights for the scraps. I think soccer is kind of similar to baseball in the US where the MLB feeds money down through what they call their "farm system" which is 3 minor league teams at various levels. They have triple A, double A, and single A and many players work their way through it to eventually be called up the MLB team. I believe soccer is similar but the whole team can move up into the next league. But just like in Baseball the MLB teams revenue is night and day of any minor league affiliate with that team. Sidenote from how MLB and I would assume in soccer is since they help feed the feeder system below the big leagues there is no window for another league to start up and compete against the MLB or in the case of soccer the La Liga, EPL, etc.

 

[TorontoTO]

 

[Cartiac]

I dont think PFL is going to buy bellator unless there are no other bidders for the simple fact that PFL cant afford to expand its event schedule unless it gets paid to. Otherwise they accelarate the burn rate/money loss. There's a reason why they only do 10 events a year.

Not to mention the more money they spend on events the less of that investor money there is left for the executives to keep putting in their pockets.