Social Pitbull Attack thread

Dog Breeds Don't Have Distinct Personalities
Individual dogs have personalities that can make characterizing a breed dicey.

"Breedism" doesn't work

"One of the most exciting aspects of studying dogs centers on their marked differences in behavior, personalities, and how they adjust to living in a human-dominated world."

A few hours ago I learned about an essay by Elizabeth Pennisi that is available for free online titled "Dog breeds really do have distinct personalities—and they’re rooted in DNA." In this piece, Ms. Pennisi offers a discussion of a preprint of an essay by University of Arizona researcher Dr. Evan MacLean and his colleagues called "Highly Heritable and Functionally Relevant Breed Differences in Dog Behavior," also available for free online. In this study, more than 17,000 dogs representing 101 breeds were studied. The researchers did not look at genetic and behavioral data for individual dogs. Ms. Pennisi writes, "In all, the teamidentified 131 places in a dog’s DNA that may help shape 14 key personality traits. Together, these DNA regions explain about 15% of a dog breed’s personality, with each exerting only a small effect. Trainability, chasing, and a tendency to be aggressive toward strangers were the most highly heritable traits, the scientists report in a paper posted this month on the preprint server bioRxiv." While the data from this study are very interesting, experts in dog genetics caution that because "this study finds a much bigger role for genetics in shaping behavior than previous studies...more work needs to be done to verify the findings."

Dog breeds do not have personalities, individuals do

Just as I was getting ready to write this brief essay calling attention to the fact that breeds do not have personalities, but individuals do, I received an email from dog expert Dr. Ádám Miklósi, a co-founder of the Family Dog Project at Eötvös Loránd University in Budapest, about the title of Ms. Pennisi's essay. He wrote "dog breeds do not have personalities...this link will cause more harm than gains." This sort of category error is rather common when people discuss traits that supposedly can be found at the species level, for example, and calling attention to this mistake is important because it misrepresents who dogs are as individuals and ignores within-breed/within-species variations that can be observed even among littermates and siblings.

One of the best discussions about dog personalities to which I go regularly is chapter 15, "The organization of individual behavior," of Dr. Miklósi's book called Dog Behaviour, Evolution, and Cognition. On page 335 he writes, "Although breeds by definition have no personality, personality
trait values obtained from individual dogs (belonging to a specific breed) can be used to characterize a dog breed or breed group (see Figure 15.2)." In this chapter Dr. Miklósi also critically evaluates studies of personalities that focus on breed differences and notes that one has to be careful about how they're interpreted because they're often based on correlations between only two variables out of many possibilities, traits are judged by experts, and only a small number of breeds are studied. He also notes that personality is not a stable trait and can vary over time. I can't cover all of the valuable material Dr. Miklósi summarizes in detail, and I highly recommend chapter 15 to anyone interested in the study of dog personalities.

The importance of paying close attention to individual differences among dogs

Anyone who's spent even a little time around dogs knows there are large individual differences, among members of the same breed, same mixed breeds, and even among littermates and siblings. When I watch dogs, I focus on individual differences among them, because no two dogs are the same. I love when people tell me that they live with two dogs from the same litter and they're as different as night and day. The bottom line is that there is no "the dog." Each dog is a unique individual and it's good for them and for us when we come to realize that we must appreciate and understand each and every dog as the individual they are. (See Canine Confidential: Why Dogs Do What They Do.)

While I find Dr. MacLean and his colleagues' study to be very interesting, I'm leery of breed-wide and simplified stereotypes about the personality and behavior of members of these groups. They often gloss over wide-ranging individual differences among dogs who are placed in this or that group, and I know I'm not alone in hearing stories about people who choose to live with a dog of a specific breed or breed-mix because they were told something like, "This is how they'll behave in this or that situation" or "They're petty laid back," only to find out this isn't so. A few people I know, and I'm sure they're not alone, wound up returning dogs they'd rescued or bought from breeders because they didn't behave in the way they were told individuals of their particular breed "typically" behave.

What's so exciting about studying the fascinating cognitive and emotional lives of dogs and other animals is how much individual variation there is among members of the same breed/species. The interesting challenges are to understand each and every individual for who they are, to come to appreciate why there are these differences in cognitive skills, emotional capacities, and personality, and to understand how these differences influence the sorts of social bonds a dog can form with other dogs and with humans. It's not only important to become fluent in dog -- dog literate -- but also to come to know and respect each dog as a unique being -- what they want and need and how they react to different social and other situations. (See "How Well Do You Know What Dogs Do, Think, and Feel?", "Should Shelters and Breeders Require Literacy in Behavior?", "iSpeakDog: A Website Devoted to Becoming Dog Literate," and links therein.)

Dogs don't care how they're labeled and shouldn't suffer because of how we choose to categorize them. Often it's more about people rather than the dogs. All too frequently "breedism" -- convenient, oversimplified, and misleading stereotyping -- doesn't serve them or their (and other) humans well.

References

Bekoff, Marc. Why Dogs Matter. Psychology Today, January 1, 2019.

Bekoff, Marc. Pit Bulls: The Psychology of Breedism, Fear, and Prejudice. Psychology Today, June 2, 2016.

Bekoff, Marc. A Matter of Breeding: How We've Greatly Harmed BFF Dogs. Psychology Today, June 20, 2015. (A review of the following reference.)

Brandon, Michael. A Matter of Breeding: A Biting History of Pedigree Dogs and How the Quest for Status Has Harmed Man's Best Friend. Beacon Press, Boston, 2015.

Brophey, Kim. Meet Your Dog: The Game-Changing Guide to Understanding Your Dog's Behavior. Chronicle Books, 2018

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...g-breeds-dont-have-distinct-personalities?amp
Bullshit. Dogs were purpose bred and thus have personality traits included in breed standards. "Confident", "calm", "stubborn", and in the case of APBT "human neautral" are all certsin breeds have in order to complete the hobs they were designed for. Deviations were culled.

How's this? This Hungarian bozo should test his theory out by walking into households inhabited by Kuvaszok vs Vizslas and chart behavious via the temperament test results. Hint - do the Vizslas first as he might not have hands to type with after fucking around with Kuvaszok.
 
Bullshit. Dogs were purpose bred and thus have personality traits included in breed standards. "Confident", "calm", "stubborn", and in the case of APBT "human neautral" are all certsin breeds have in order to complete the hobs they were designed for. Deviations were culled.

How's this? This Hungarian bozo should test his theory out by walking into households inhabited by Kuvaszok vs Vizslas and chart behavious via the temperament test results. Hint - do the Vizslas first as he might not have hands to type with after fucking around with Kuvaszok.

Call bullshit all you want, but he sources his ideas, backs it with studies, and I doubt the pitbull lobby is paying for this science.
 
I recently watched The Green Room on Netflix. Really makes me want to get a pit.
 
I recently watched The Green Room on Netflix. Really makes me want to get a pit.

They're great dogs, you should. Our two old pitbulls died last year at 10. I now have a 5 month old pit puppy. I'm sure he's going to tear out my throat any day now though.
 
I also think it's a little bit funny how people nitpick exactly what a pitbull is. "That's not a Pitbull, it's a Pitbull mixed with a Staffordshire Terrier!"

Okay, we get it. Somebody mixed their ultra aggressive landshark with a bigger landshark to get a really big ultra aggressive landshark.
LOL
 
I bought into the locking-jaws babykiller nonsense before my wife picked one up from the shelter. I was very leery. Fast forward 14 years and you see the biggest goofball lovable dog in the world. Gentle and kind. Everyone loved him. He died a couple of years ago before my son was born. But I would have trusted him completely.

2 weeks ago my wife was visiting her family in California. Her sister got a pitmix thinking it would be like ours. It wasn't. It had already attacked their other dog a couple of times. That dog would never be left alone or near my son. I expressed considerable concern to my wife about the situation. A pit that exhibited aggressive behavior is not trustworthy. I didn't want that dog in the same room as my kid.

tldr: dogs are unique

The death lock bite and don't let go hypothesis people say for Pit Bull Terriers is false. It's a case of well that's the popular thing to say so I'll repeat what I heard over, again. Then a person who has never even owned a dog will catch wind of this and repeat it over, again.

There is enough video evidence out there now to counter the death lock bite thing showing dogs who survive a pit attacking them. Why don't people suggest the same thing for wild bears and tigers when they bite down on prey? I have nothing against the pit breed yet I know someone will reply back with I don't know the history of the breed. I do know their backstory, I just don't believe in magic and voodoo.
 
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Call bullshit all you want, but he sources his ideas, backs it with studies, and I doubt the pitbull lobby is paying for this science.

It is strange how people seem to think dogs are robots or computers or something. The every X breed will do exactly the same.

I am thinking of retiring to a rural area, wit a couple hundred achers, with some farm land and mostly woods, so I've been looking at dogs that can roam and protect against cyotes. Even the most robust dogs like turkish kengals have about a 50% failure rate for this job, meaning they won't heard/guard like we all beelive they will, like they were bred to do.

Also, there is such a difference between a dog physical look and ability to do what is was bred to do. Sure Spriner Spanials were bred to hunt but if the dog you buy comes from bloodlines that has not huned for a couple hunter years, it makes no sense to assume this dog will hunt.

Coul dyou imagine a standard English bulldog trying to bait a bull …. fucking lol
 
It is strange how people seem to think dogs are robots or computers or something. The every X breed will do exactly the same.

I am thinking of retiring to a rural area, wit a couple hundred achers, with some farm land and mostly woods, so I've been looking at dogs that can roam and protect against cyotes. Even the most robust dogs like turkish kengals have about a 50% failure rate for this job, meaning they won't heard/guard like we all beelive they will, like they were bred to do.

Also, there is such a difference between a dog physical look and ability to do what is was bred to do. Sure Spriner Spanials were bred to hunt but if the dog you buy comes from bloodlines that has not huned for a couple hunter years, it makes no sense to assume this dog will hunt.

Coul dyou imagine a standard English bulldog trying to bait a bull …. fucking lol
Definitely agree with you in the way that dogs aren't robots. You can't assume they all operate the same way. People who need working dogs pay a lot of money for working lines (as opposed to show lines) for this exact reason. You can't possibly assume that a dog will do anything it's original breeders intended it to do if it was selectively bred only for aesthetics. That being said there are characteristics that are prevalent among certain breeds and types. Terriers tend to be feistier for instance.

You mentioned standard bulldogs bull baiting today which would be an impossibility. They have deviated so far beyond their original stature they are nearly unrecognizable.
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Call bullshit all you want, but he sources his ideas, backs it with studies, and I doubt the pitbull lobby is paying for this science.

Lmao man I was a fringe Viva supporter but after seeing you're pro pitty I feel like maybe the others have been right all along.
 
LOL @ people who have no experience with the breed acting like they know what they're talking about.

Both sides can be ridiculous but there are a lot of self proclaimed experts who haven't the slightest clue indicting others of apologetics.

The pit bull issue is rather simple. It's one of the only breeds that has the mass appeal that it does while being a working dog. Imagine making Ferrari's or muscle cars widely available and accessible to first time drivers, couple that with mechanics (back yard breeders) adding to the hardware who are equally as ignorant as themselves and viola you have the beginnings of a catastrophe.

Dogs have levels of experience required for ownership. The " yOuR aN aPoLoGiSt!" crew does not realize that certain dogs should not go to certain people. They can probably be slow walked to a logical conclusion that 16 year olds and muscle cars are a recipe for disaster but when it comes to pitbulls being coupled with ignorant owners they somehow over look the precondition of experience. In other words they under sell the merits of ownership because they do not understand dogs in general. We would EASILY see this issue if the Dutch shephard was subjected to the same mass appeal and inbreeding as the pitbull is subjected to but they cannot wrap their minds around that concept.

On the other hand the "iTs tHe bReEd nOt tHe dEEd!" is guilty of painting pitbulls out to be lambs across the board. Well they aren't. There is no uniformity here. As always the truth is somewhere in the middle and the answer to this issue is for pitbulls and all working dogs for that matter to be in the hands of responsible owners who have a certain level of experience. How this goal is achieved i have no clue but that would immediately eradicate the problem.
 
ffs...here we go

Let me help you out here.
Am Staff = American Staffordshire terrier, 60-80lbs
Staffy= Staffordshire bull terrier, from England and weighs about 24-34lbs
Oh and according to the articles i've read, that girls dogs are around 125lbs. Big difference.

First off mixing a pitbull with either one of these makes no sense what so ever from a breeders standpoint. It pollutes the lines with no discernible aesthetic difference and in the case of the staffy they are not as accessible, more expensive and it would effectively make them smaller. So no the average back yard breeder is not doing this UNLESS he only has some amstaffs at his disposal.

Usually what they bring into the mix are bigger mastiff type dogs to get dogs that look more like this.
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So explain to me why these two are lumped in with that thing up there in these statistics?^^^^


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I cannot even stress to you how stupid people are. I need to clarify, im not here saying bully breeds are little lambs, they are dangerous along with every other large breed. But your line of reasoning is WORSE because you are not absolving absolutley anything just because you are afraid of how pit bulls look over other dogs. If you sit here and spew the narrative that pits are dangerous and we should have a blanket ban of dogs that all resemble each other you are absolving so many irresponsible owners, parents, breeders and even other breeds of responsibility.

The ban has not worked in Toronto ( as an example) and if you truly "cared" you would be looking for actual solutions to dogs attacking people. You along with the general population who knows nothing about dogs have tunnel vision on one breed when there are SO many others that do the exact same shit.

Look at this for instance. The "Pit bull" here is compromised of 3 different breeds and is STILL beaten out by the German shepard. Do you want to ban the German Shepard since its obviously, statistically more dangerous and prone to attack?

Look at 2014 when the pitbull population is nearly decimated. Overall attacks are down because SEVERAL breeds are banned but overall bites are hardly different. How do you address that with your narrative?
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Not sure what the point of your table is.
A Bichon Frise is almost as dangerous as a Staff based on number of bites?

Not all bites are created equal.
 
Not sure what the point of your table is.
A Bichon Frise is almost as dangerous as a Staff based on number of bites?

Not all bites are created equal.
The point was that banning breeds doesn't reduce overall attacks. Maybe read the post?
 
The point was that banning breeds doesn't reduce overall attacks. Maybe read the post?

Fair enough.

I was looking at your post in the context of the thread, which was about a fatality.
“Attacks” is vague.
 
Dog breed of peace strikes again.

Benton County to pay $1.6M to mother, son for attack by pit bulls with a troubled past
BY CORY MCCOY UPDATED DECEMBER 29, 2023 5:48 PM

A Prosser area mother and her teen son were left with lifelong injuries after they were mauled by a pack of pit bulls that neighbors had complained about to Benton County officials for years. Public records obtained by the Tri-City Herald show neighbors called and reported issues with the pit bulls and other dogs charging people, attacking livestock and killing pets as far back as 2019. Even after Christin Gregerson and her son Hunter, then 15, were brutalized in April 2022, the dogs from an Old Inland Empire Highway property continued to terrorize the rural area.
This month, the Benton County commissioners agreed to pay the Gregersons $1.6 million to settle their tort claim against the county. They’d asked the county for $3.5 million total for damages but told the Tri-City Herald in a statement that they were grateful to settle the case before they were forced to file a lawsuit. They wanted to avoid reliving the trauma in a courtroom.
Seven pit bulls belonging to the property owner Donna Ziegler’s daughter and her daughter’s boyfriend attacked the Gregersons in their own yard, leaving them with injuries so severe Christin was in danger of losing her arm. “We will be forever thankful to our heroic neighbor who interceded with a shovel and somehow managed to get the pit bulls to stop their attack,” the Gregersons said in their statement.

Read more at: https://www.tri-cityherald.com/news/local/crime/article282798118.html#storylink=cpy
 

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A 25 year old Arizona woman who was forced to have an arm amputated after being mauled by a stray dog she was fostering has detailed her agonising ordeal.

The saga began back in July, she said - after she took in a stray a friend had picked up, which proceeded to get in a fight with one of her other four dogs.

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She recalled attempting to drag the once-abused mutt to her backyard, before finding herself cornered in a bathroom.

A series of vicious gnaws ensued, she said, of which her left arm absorbed the worst. The attack continued for a total of nearly 30 minutes, the grad student went on - until neighbours heard her cries. They proceeded to dial 911, likely saving her life.

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Munoz went on to spend a month in a hospital, where she underwent 18 surgeries and eventually had to get her arm amputated.

Calling her road to recovery 'a roller coaster,' she said she also had to stay attached to IVs for several weeks after losing the limb, but still managed to keep her spirits high.

As for the dog responsible for her life-altering injuries, she said she does not harbour any ill will.

Munoz is a student at Arizona State University who is working towards her master’s degree in social justice.

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The dog, Zona, was put to sleep. None of the articles I've seen say Zona was a pitbull or pitbull mix, but she is referred to as such here and here.

Munoz has $13,390 of a $40,000 goal on her GoFundMe.
 
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