Social Pitbull Attack thread

[SammyPops]

You were going to go into your schpeel about non fatal dog bite statistics and small dogs.

Have you ever heard of the Cloak of Competence?

 

[lfd0311]

Have you ever heard of the Cloak of Competence?

Don't get mad that you got outed. It's very unflattering. It's also dishonest, but that's pretty standard for this thread.

 

[shockaholic12]

And how many pitbulls exist in the US, and how many deadly pitbull attacks are there?

See you freaking idiots like to talk numbers, but you aren't honest about what those numbers actually say.

What pitbull bite numbers actually say is that 99.99% of pitbulls will never bite a person. Fucking statistical fact.

"The Pit Bull is still responsible for the most fatal attacks in the U.S. by far, killing 284 people over that 13-year (2005-2018) - 66 percent of total fatalities. That's despite the breed accounting for just 6.5% of the total U.S. dog population"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallm...angerous-dog-breeds-infographic/#23d5abf462f8

I'd say over to course of the last 13 years close to 300 Americans, you know neighborhood kids and women, having their limbs, throats, major organs used as chew toys till they bled out or died in whatever insanely horrific manner is a big red flag for any breed of dog people are attempting to keep as household pets.

The fact this one breed that is 6.5% of the population accounts 66% of fatal attacks also happens to be a one that was selectively bred into existence to win killing and maiming contests isn't a coincidence. It's proof they never belonged as part of society in the first place.

Also proof how naive and overly emotional adults get when it comes to their pets.

 

[RockstarChris]

the solution to pitbull attacks is hugs and kisses

 

[VivaRevolution]

"The Pit Bull is still responsible for the most fatal attacks in the U.S. by far, killing 284 people over that 13-year (2005-2018) - 66 percent of total fatalities. That's despite the breed accounting for just 6.5% of the total U.S. dog population"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallm...angerous-dog-breeds-infographic/#23d5abf462f8

I'd say over to course of the last 13 years close to 300 Americans, you know neighborhood kids and women, having their limbs, throats, major organs used as chew toys till they bled out or died in whatever insanely horrific manner is a big red flag for any breed of dog people are attempting to keep as household pets.

The fact this one breed that is 6.5% of the population accounts 66% of fatal attacks also happens to be a one that was selectively bred into existence to win killing and maiming contests isn't a coincidence. It's proof they never belonged as part of society in the first place.

And in what way does this invalidate what I said?

Fact: 99.99% of pitbulls will never bite a person.

Do you dispute this fact?

 

[SammyPops]

"The Pit Bull is still responsible for the most fatal attacks in the U.S. by far, killing 284 people over that 13-year (2005-2018) - 66 percent of total fatalities. That's despite the breed accounting for just 6.5% of the total U.S. dog population"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallm...angerous-dog-breeds-infographic/#23d5abf462f8

I'd say over to course of the last 13 years close to 300 Americans, you know neighborhood kids and women, having their limbs, throats, major organs used as chew toys till they bled out or died in whatever insanely horrific manner is a big red flag for any breed of dog people are attempting to keep as household pets.

The fact this one breed that is 6.5% of the population accounts 66% of fatal attacks also happens to be a one that was selectively bred into existence to win killing and maiming contests isn't a coincidence. It's proof they never belonged as part of society in the first place.

Also proof how naive and overly emotional adults get when it comes to their pets.

The article makes the same erros most do with this topic.

How is pitbull defined: are the UKC or ABDA registered APBT, Am Staffs, or Staffs; is it any dog that looks like a pitbull; who identified these dogs as pitbulls?

As both pointed out in Bandit (Hearne) and Pitbull (Dickey) both point out that those percentage stats are drawn from official registries AKC, UKC, ADBA etc. Most pitbulls are not registered, especially compared to expensive pure bred dogs. When you compare pitbull facbook accounts and internet sites, there are way more pitbulls than dog registries state.

 

[shockaholic12]

And in what way does this invalidate what I said?

Fact: 99.99% of pitbulls will never bite a person.

Do you dispute this fact?

You were throwing a bitch-fit saying people were dishonestly talking about numbers. So I'm honestly talking about numbers with you. I don't know where you got your numbers from, didn't catch a source. Either way everyone understands a majority of pit bulls won't bite you, it's the fact that their physical and behavioral selective breeding leads them to sometimes attack, and attack you with the traits that result in bloodbaths that rob innocent humans of their lives. If that's happening to the tune of a few hundred times a decade, than the risk of all these horrible deaths is not worth the rewards of .... keeping around this one breed of household pet.

It's a pet. I could see how children couldn't comprehend moving on to more logical choices as we move forward but not adults.

Fact: When it comes to fatal attacks, pitbulls have committed hundreds and hundreds in the last decade.

Fact: Pitbulls are far, far more likely to fatally attack you than any other breed. The other breeds aren't really even in the same ballpark as pits when it comes to the killing game. There's a reason for this.

Fact: Pits were bred into existence to win killing and maiming games.

 

[shockaholic12]

The article makes the same erros most do with this topic.

How is pitbull defined: are the UKC or ABDA registered APBT, Am Staffs, or Staffs; is it any dog that looks like a pitbull; who identified these dogs as pitbulls?

As both pointed out in Bandit (Hearne) and Pitbull (Dickey) both point out that those percentage stats are drawn from official registries AKC, UKC, ADBA etc. Most pitbulls are not registered, especially compared to expensive pure bred dogs. When you compare pitbull facbook accounts and internet sites, there are way more pitbulls than dog registries state.

The source is there for you to reference. Of course real studies are going to focus on more official registries and not go around counting facebook accounts made for "pitbulls". How would one confirm some facebook account has dogs that are actually pits or actually still alive? I don't know what you're getting on about with the last paragraph.

The flip side of your argument is assuming a dog bite is something a lot of owner's aren't going to want to report. Why would you call in your own dog? It's asking for trouble for you and your dog and making a paper trail for liability in future. Yeah I'm sure we don't have ever pitbull out there registered but we don't have every bite either. I do think we have enough data on both to point a very clear picture of the issue though.

 

[SammyPops]

The source is there for you to reference. Of course real studies are going to focus on more official registries and not go around counting facebook accounts made for "pitbulls". How would one confirm some facebook account has dogs that are actually pits or actually still alive? I don't know what you're getting on about with the last paragraph.

The flip side of your argument is assuming a dog bite is something a lot of owner's aren't going to want to report. Why would you call in your own dog? It's asking for trouble for you and your dog and making a paper trail for liability in future. Yeah I'm sure we don't have ever pitbull out there registered but we don't have every bite either. I do think we have enough data on both to point a very clear picture of the issue though.

The point is that if we only use dog breed registries for the number of a given breed of dog to establish dog bites stats, pitbulls will be massively over represented in dog bite stats as most pitbull are not registered.

Most dog bites are reported by victims or medical personal.

 

[shockaholic12]

The point is that if we only use dog breed registries for the number of a given breed of dog to establish dog bites stats, pitbulls will be massively over represented in dog bite stats as most pitbull are not registered.

Most dog bites are reported by victims or medical personal.

They won’t be “massively” misrepresented because you have to apply your logic that not every owner registers their dogs to the other big breeds like rots, German Shepards, mastiffs, etc.

And even after that if there’s this population of pits these professional researchers left uncounted the amount of fatal attack’s pits account for is so great compared to other breeds, it’s still going to dispositional to their population.

You actually talk numbers in this thread and it seems pitbull defenders will either say “doesn’t count. the dog has to fit these strict guidelines to say it’s a pitbull” but when you discuss registered ones they say “what about counting all these random dogs I see on Facebook?”. It’s a lost cause.

 

[Amerikuracana]

And in what way does this invalidate what I said?

Fact: 99.99% of pitbulls will never bite a person.

Do you dispute this fact?

I think it's more than 1/10,000 that will bit a person. Not kill, but bite.

I don't think there is any dog breed in existence that only 1/10,000 bites a person at some point.

 

[Bald1]

First you say:



Then you say:



This is extremely inconsistent.

I suppose it does seem that way.

How's this instead? I've met all sorts of dogs on varipus DBL lists (Filas, many pits and Rotties, Akitas, Kuvaszok, etc) at dog parks, camping and during service calls that weren't dangerous, but all Shibas and Chows I've interacted with were "off" in my experience.

 

[bigkick]

My bro had a chow. It was extremely lotal to him but an absolute nightmare to everyone else. People should just get "nice" dogs lol.

 

[monster zero]

Dogs of peace. Lul at white trash and wanna be thugs that own em.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I think it's more than 1/10,000 that will bit a person. Not kill, but bite.

I don't think there is any dog breed in existence that only 1/10,000 bites a person at some point.

Yeah, ok. 99.9% then.

I started doing the math. 50 million dogs. 0.01%, yeah I agree.

The point of course is in shifting the conversation away from statistics like pitbulls kill 1 billion % more people than wiener dogs.

 

[nhbbear]

I have another gruesome pit bull story, but I will save it for when I have time to do it justice. The officers that were on scene said it was the worst thing they had ever seen.

 

[SammyPops]

They won’t be “massively” misrepresented because you have to apply your logic that not every owner registers their dogs to the other big breeds like rots, German Shepards, mastiffs, etc.

And even after that if there’s this population of pits these professional researchers left uncounted the amount of fatal attack’s pits account for is so great compared to other breeds, it’s still going to dispositional to their population.

You actually talk numbers in this thread and it seems pitbull defenders will either say “doesn’t count. the dog has to fit these strict guidelines to say it’s a pitbull” but when you discuss registered ones they say “what about counting all these random dogs I see on Facebook?”. It’s a lost cause.

I agree that lots of othe rbreeds are not totally registered. I woudl suggest there are a lot more unregistered pitbull than other large powerful dogs, like Presa, Akitas etc, as pitbulls seem to be more a backyard breeder and cheap dogs.

Identifying a pitbull, imo, is pretty straight forward. It needs to be registerd with UKC, ADBA or so on. A 1/2 registered pitbull and 1/2 bulldog from a backyard breeder may be a great dog, but its not a pitbull. I'd put that same standard to all dogs.

 

[deadshot138]

A 6 year old had to summon help via posting her fathers mangled corpse on Facebook after he was killed by a Pitbull while her step mother OD’d. Or maybe the dude also OD’d and the Pitbull had a snack after he was already dead. Either way, fucked story.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/6-y...ng-photos-dead-father-facebook-135548030.html

 

[SammyPops]

You were throwing a bitch-fit saying people were dishonestly talking about numbers. So I'm honestly talking about numbers with you. I don't know where you got your numbers from, didn't catch a source. Either way everyone understands a majority of pit bulls won't bite you, it's the fact that their physical and behavioral selective breeding leads them to sometimes attack, and attack you with the traits that result in bloodbaths that rob innocent humans of their lives. If that's happening to the tune of a few hundred times a decade, than the risk of all these horrible deaths is not worth the rewards of .... keeping around this one breed of household pet.

It's a pet. I could see how children couldn't comprehend moving on to more logical choices as we move forward but not adults.

Fact: When it comes to fatal attacks, pitbulls have committed hundreds and hundreds in the last decade.

Fact: Pitbulls are far, far more likely to fatally attack you than any other breed. The other breeds aren't really even in the same ballpark as pits when it comes to the killing game. There's a reason for this.

Fact: Pits were bred into existence to win killing and maiming games.

I know for my own sanity I should avoid this thread, but I cannot.

You make bold statements about pitbulls. What is a pitbull in your statements about fact?

Are they only UKC/ADBA registered American Pit Bull Terriers? Do you include dogs such as AmStaffs, Staffs, American Bullys? Do you include all the backyard pitbull type dogs?

 

[VivaRevolution]

Dog Breeds Don't Have Distinct Personalities
Individual dogs have personalities that can make characterizing a breed dicey.

"Breedism" doesn't work

"One of the most exciting aspects of studying dogs centers on their marked differences in behavior, personalities, and how they adjust to living in a human-dominated world."

A few hours ago I learned about an essay by Elizabeth Pennisi that is available for free online titled "Dog breeds really do have distinct personalities—and they’re rooted in DNA." In this piece, Ms. Pennisi offers a discussion of a preprint of an essay by University of Arizona researcher Dr. Evan MacLean and his colleagues called "Highly Heritable and Functionally Relevant Breed Differences in Dog Behavior," also available for free online. In this study, more than 17,000 dogs representing 101 breeds were studied. The researchers did not look at genetic and behavioral data for individual dogs. Ms. Pennisi writes, "In all, the teamidentified 131 places in a dog’s DNA that may help shape 14 key personality traits. Together, these DNA regions explain about 15% of a dog breed’s personality, with each exerting only a small effect. Trainability, chasing, and a tendency to be aggressive toward strangers were the most highly heritable traits, the scientists report in a paper posted this month on the preprint server bioRxiv." While the data from this study are very interesting, experts in dog genetics caution that because "this study finds a much bigger role for genetics in shaping behavior than previous studies...more work needs to be done to verify the findings."

Dog breeds do not have personalities, individuals do

Just as I was getting ready to write this brief essay calling attention to the fact that breeds do not have personalities, but individuals do, I received an email from dog expert Dr. Ádám Miklósi, a co-founder of the Family Dog Project at Eötvös Loránd University in Budapest, about the title of Ms. Pennisi's essay. He wrote "dog breeds do not have personalities...this link will cause more harm than gains." This sort of category error is rather common when people discuss traits that supposedly can be found at the species level, for example, and calling attention to this mistake is important because it misrepresents who dogs are as individuals and ignores within-breed/within-species variations that can be observed even among littermates and siblings.

One of the best discussions about dog personalities to which I go regularly is chapter 15, "The organization of individual behavior," of Dr. Miklósi's book called Dog Behaviour, Evolution, and Cognition. On page 335 he writes, "Although breeds by definition have no personality, personality
trait values obtained from individual dogs (belonging to a specific breed) can be used to characterize a dog breed or breed group (see Figure 15.2)." In this chapter Dr. Miklósi also critically evaluates studies of personalities that focus on breed differences and notes that one has to be careful about how they're interpreted because they're often based on correlations between only two variables out of many possibilities, traits are judged by experts, and only a small number of breeds are studied. He also notes that personality is not a stable trait and can vary over time. I can't cover all of the valuable material Dr. Miklósi summarizes in detail, and I highly recommend chapter 15 to anyone interested in the study of dog personalities.

The importance of paying close attention to individual differences among dogs

Anyone who's spent even a little time around dogs knows there are large individual differences, among members of the same breed, same mixed breeds, and even among littermates and siblings. When I watch dogs, I focus on individual differences among them, because no two dogs are the same. I love when people tell me that they live with two dogs from the same litter and they're as different as night and day. The bottom line is that there is no "the dog." Each dog is a unique individual and it's good for them and for us when we come to realize that we must appreciate and understand each and every dog as the individual they are. (See Canine Confidential: Why Dogs Do What They Do.)

While I find Dr. MacLean and his colleagues' study to be very interesting, I'm leery of breed-wide and simplified stereotypes about the personality and behavior of members of these groups. They often gloss over wide-ranging individual differences among dogs who are placed in this or that group, and I know I'm not alone in hearing stories about people who choose to live with a dog of a specific breed or breed-mix because they were told something like, "This is how they'll behave in this or that situation" or "They're petty laid back," only to find out this isn't so. A few people I know, and I'm sure they're not alone, wound up returning dogs they'd rescued or bought from breeders because they didn't behave in the way they were told individuals of their particular breed "typically" behave.

What's so exciting about studying the fascinating cognitive and emotional lives of dogs and other animals is how much individual variation there is among members of the same breed/species. The interesting challenges are to understand each and every individual for who they are, to come to appreciate why there are these differences in cognitive skills, emotional capacities, and personality, and to understand how these differences influence the sorts of social bonds a dog can form with other dogs and with humans. It's not only important to become fluent in dog -- dog literate -- but also to come to know and respect each dog as a unique being -- what they want and need and how they react to different social and other situations. (See "How Well Do You Know What Dogs Do, Think, and Feel?", "Should Shelters and Breeders Require Literacy in Behavior?", "iSpeakDog: A Website Devoted to Becoming Dog Literate," and links therein.)

Dogs don't care how they're labeled and shouldn't suffer because of how we choose to categorize them. Often it's more about people rather than the dogs. All too frequently "breedism" -- convenient, oversimplified, and misleading stereotyping -- doesn't serve them or their (and other) humans well.

References

Bekoff, Marc. Why Dogs Matter. Psychology Today, January 1, 2019.

Bekoff, Marc. Pit Bulls: The Psychology of Breedism, Fear, and Prejudice. Psychology Today, June 2, 2016.

Bekoff, Marc. A Matter of Breeding: How We've Greatly Harmed BFF Dogs. Psychology Today, June 20, 2015. (A review of the following reference.)

Brandon, Michael. A Matter of Breeding: A Biting History of Pedigree Dogs and How the Quest for Status Has Harmed Man's Best Friend. Beacon Press, Boston, 2015.

Brophey, Kim. Meet Your Dog: The Game-Changing Guide to Understanding Your Dog's Behavior. Chronicle Books, 2018

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...g-breeds-dont-have-distinct-personalities?amp