Pitbull losing is like Wanderlei

[cade187]

Pit bull losing twice right before a potential big acquisition feels a lot like Wandy losing to Cro Cop and Hendo right before the UFC acquiring Pride. He’ll still be a great addition to any roster, but he definitely lost a lot of his lustre.

 

[David Street]

He is what 36years old... a several times champ of a decent organization... 35-7 he is still a very good get.

 

[Stan]

Pit bull losing twice right before a potential big acquisition feels a lot like Wandy losing to Cro Cop and Hendo right before the UFC acquiring Pride. He’ll still be a great addition to any roster, but he definitely lost a lot of his lustre.

You can't judge Patricio on a fight he took on just 4 days notice and wasn't training to have. Give Patricio a rematch against Suzuki with a full training camp and I'm 99.99% sure Patricio will win. Patricio a fucking warrior willing to step into a tough fight on just 4 days notice only 6 weeks after cutting a lot of weight and losing to Pettis in an attempt to win 3 titles in 3 different divisions.

 

[cade187]

You can't judge Patricio on a fight he took on just 4 days notice and wasn't training to have. Give Patricio a rematch against Suzuki with a full training camp and I'm 99.99% sure Patricio will win. Patricio a fucking warrior willing to step into a tough fight on just 4 days notice only 6 weeks after cutting a lot of weight and losing to Pettis in an attempt to win 3 titles in 3 different divisions.

You can’t deny that’s it not as interesting of an acquisition than it was before he had two losses. Yes, the circumstances are a factor, but he just got finished, similarly to Wandy fighting Cro Cop and getting finished; Cro Cop being a top 3 HW at the time makes the loss less of a set back, but Wand had a ton of hype at the time and there was talks of Wand vs Chuck for years. The fight eventually happened, but both were in their twilight when it did happen and it wasn’t for a title.

Take away Pitbull’s recent two losses and he most likely would have been given an automatic title shot if he signs with the UFC. That would be a pretty hard sell right now.

This isn’t a “he was never that good” thread; it’s just really bad timing for these losses.

 

[Stan]

You can’t deny that’s it not as interesting of an acquisition than it was before he had two losses. Yes, the circumstances are a factor, but he just got finished, similarly to Wandy fighting Cro Cop and getting finished; Cro Cop being a top 3 HW at the time makes the loss less of a set back, but Wand had a ton of hype at the time and there was talks of Wand vs Chuck for years. The fight eventually happened, but both were in their twilight when it did happen and it wasn’t for a title.

Take away Pitbull’s recent two losses and he most likely would have been given an automatic title shot if he signs with the UFC. That would be a pretty hard sell right now.

This isn’t a “he was never that good” thread; it’s just really bad timing for these losses.

Yeah I agree with you the 2 loses does take something away from him. Even if you take away his recent 2 loses and he signed with the UFC they would've never granted him an automatic title shot and same goes for the #1 LHW in the world Vadim Nemkov. The UFC has never in the past 13 years ever granted an automatic title shot to any champion they have ever signed from another org. All have had to win at least 3 fights in the UFC 1 of which is ranked between 6-9 and the other 2 would be top 5 contenders in order to get a title shot. Brock Lesnar was granted a title shot on his 3rd fight in UFC. Ronda Rousey was the only fighter to ever be handed a UFC title belt before ever stepping into the UFC cage to fight.

 

[cade187]

Yeah I agree with you the 2 loses does take something away from him. Even if you take away his recent 2 loses and he signed with the UFC they would've never granted him an automatic title shot and same goes for the #1 LHW in the world Vadim Nemkov. The UFC has never in the past 13 years ever granted an automatic title shot to any champion they have ever signed from another org. All have had to win at least 3 fights in the UFC 1 of which is ranked between 6-9 and the other 2 would be top 5 contenders in order to get a title shot. Brock Lesnar was granted a title shot on his 3rd fight in UFC. Ronda Rousey was the only fighter to ever be handed a UFC title belt before ever stepping into the UFC cage to fight.

I mean, the UFC hasn’t exactly bought out any significant orgs lately. Multiple Pride champs got automatic title shots. Bellator would be almost as significant an acquisition as pride was.

Also, Ronda wasn’t the only champion crowned without fighting in the UFC; she wasn’t even the first, Aldo was.

 

[tjnickels]

I mean, the UFC hasn’t exactly bought out any significant orgs lately. Multiple Pride champs got automatic title shots. Bellator would be almost as significant an acquisition as pride was.

Also, Ronda wasn’t the only champion crowned without fighting in the UFC; she wasn’t even the first, Aldo was.

The last major acquisition was strikeforce, and Gil got a title shot right away and shields and Hendo were both lined up for them after one fight. Reem would have after 2 but Big foot shocked him, and saffedine…. The UFC will do the outside vs Ufc guy if it makes business sense.

if the UFC buys bellator, it would heavily remind me of the strikeforce buyout. Many top stars would be a fight or 2 away from titles.

A pitbull signing would heavily look like wand. With the two losses, if he’s picked up, he’s out of the title picture for the foreseeable future. They’ll put him against another action fighter to try and get that pop.

 

[CC27]

probably at the point of his career where he'll be beaten for that FW title in Bellator soon.

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

he seemed way too relaxed, and just smaller against a hyped up, ready to prove himself and erase the memories of his last fight Suzuki. I haven't followed pitbull's career as best as I could, but those are my basic observations. I think Suzuki would have beaten anyone that night, if they were to stand with him. pitbull seemed not adjusted for the pressure and barrage, played it way too relaxed.

 

[Onidemon84]

Also Wanderlei lost to Hendo and Cro cop during a time when it would have been absolutely nothing to be ashamed of at all. It didn't hurt that Liddell was also on a two fight skid around the same time when they signed him on

 

[panem-et-circenses]

In terms of longevity, Pitbull held out longer than Wanderlei who, despite his athletic shell, was done as a top fighter in his early thirties. But even after passing the threshold of ‘out of prime’, Wandy defeated Bisping (future champion/HoFamer), Stann (legit fighter), and Jardine (when he was still respected). Wandy was also cemented before the Cro Cop loss.

I think it’s wait and see with Pittbull, and he won’t get the leeway Wanderlei received, so I hope he gets out if it’s time. Very fun career.

 

[TheBrownRanger]

I think he has more fights left in him. Still a marketable name and has Bellator's FW strap so I'm sure PFL will treat him well. He's a far bigger name than Movlid Khaybulaev, Chris Wade, and Bubba Jenkins, for damn sure.

You can't judge Patricio on a fight he took on just 4 days notice and wasn't training to have. Give Patricio a rematch against Suzuki with a full training camp and I'm 99.99% sure Patricio will win. Patricio a fucking warrior willing to step into a tough fight on just 4 days notice only 6 weeks after cutting a lot of weight and losing to Pettis in an attempt to win 3 titles in 3 different divisions.

As far as a Suzuki rematch goes, who knows if it could even happen? Where will RIZIN fit into the whole PFL/Bellator ordeal? Would the PFL want to co-promote with RIZIN for the rematch to happen? Or do they just pretend nothing happened?

 

[Kingz]

Not just luster or aura. Patricio seems pretty cooked to me. Not just because he lost his last two fights, one to somebody you would expect him to demolish.

He hasn’t really been impressive for a couple of years now. Even when he a pretty impressive on paper 3 fight winning streak with McKee, Borics, and Kleber. The performance in those fights were painfully low output and evidence of a fighter that couldn’t get off anymore. McKee completely punted their rematch by hot dogging and not putting in work. He could’ve easily won that fight.

The Erbst fight was “just enough” and he didn’t look good. Borics fight forgettable since I don’t remember it though I watched it.

He looked too slow vs Pettis and too slow to be a bantamweight in general. I had long expected a move to 135 to extend his career as a top fighter should a larger fighter like McKee take 145 by the horns..but he doesn’t move like a bantamweight. He’s just short and stocky. Not a natural 135 as I long thought.

Obviously he’s still a good fighter but 36 years old and 42 fights. Steadily declining performance over multiple years now. His best days are well behind him. 2016-2020 was his peak.

 

[Stan]

I mean, the UFC hasn’t exactly bought out any significant orgs lately. Multiple Pride champs got automatic title shots. Bellator would be almost as significant an acquisition as pride was.

Also, Ronda wasn’t the only champion crowned without fighting in the UFC; she wasn’t even the first, Aldo was.

Rampage Jackson second fight in the UFC was for the UFC title.

Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira second fight was for the UFC title.

Mauricio Shogun Rua fifth fight was for UFC title

Dan Henderson was the only Pride champ that automatically received 2 title shots in a row but Dan was a prior UFC champ. Dan had defeated Allan Goes and Carlos Newton to win the championship at UFC 17. He then left the UFC went to Rings and then to Pride FC and back again to UFC when they bought Pride FC.

 

[cade187]

Also Wanderlei lost to Hendo and Cro cop during a time when it would have been absolutely nothing to be ashamed of at all. It didn't hurt that Liddell was also on a two fight skid around the same time when they signed him on

Liddell was still champion when Wanderlei experienced those losses. UFC bought Pride in March of 2007; Liddell lost to Rampage in May of 2007. If Wanderlei was still champ they would have made that fight before Chuck vs Rampage II, and it would have been the biggest fight ever (at the time).

 

[Doctor Grudge]

Rampage Jackson second fight in the UFC was for the UFC title.

Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira second fight was for the UFC title.

Mauricio Shogun Rua fifth fight was for UFC title

Dan Henderson was the only Pride champ that automatically received 2 title shots in a row but Dan was a prior UFC champ. Dan had defeated Allan Goes and Carlos Newton to win the championship at UFC 17. He then left the UFC went to Rings and then to Pride FC and back again to UFC when they bought Pride FC.

Very true. Though a lot of them were given gimmie fights including Crocop, albeit Crocop and Shogun got derailed.

I reckon they gave them easy fights before their title shots so they can have time to expose them to the American audiences.

Rua would have gotten a title shot if he had beaten Griffin, which everyone thought he would.

 

[cade187]

Rampage Jackson second fight in the UFC was for the UFC title.

Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira second fight was for the UFC title.

Mauricio Shogun Rua fifth fight was for UFC title

Dan Henderson was the only Pride champ that automatically received 2 title shots in a row but Dan was a prior UFC champ. Dan had defeated Allan Goes and Carlos Newton to win the championship at UFC 17. He then left the UFC went to Rings and then to Pride FC and back again to UFC when they bought Pride FC.

I guess it was just Dan; I forgot Nog fought Herring before Sylvia.

Gilbert Melendez fought for the title when UFC bought Strikeforce.

The point is that it happens, and Pitbull would have been well positioned to get a title shot in his first fight, even if not a guarantee.

I’m leaving out the smaller weights because UFC never had titles in the smaller weight classes when they merged WEC.

 

[panem-et-circenses]

Bellator would be almost as significant an acquisition as pride was.

I disagree with your statement wholeheartedly. A Bellator acquisition won’t even be Strikeforce level, and there won’t be automatic title shots for anyone on their roster.

Pittbull hasn’t broken through like those aforementioned guys. As @Stan pointed out, they didn’t get anything automatic, either. In fact, Big Nog’s first and only UFC run was almost stopped by a Heath headkick. I suspect Pitbull would be stopped before he put together three or so wins, too. He won’t get any easy ones — no softballs like Rampage or Big Nog.

 

[cade187]

I disagree with your statement wholeheartedly. A Bellator acquisition won’t even be Strikeforce level, and there won’t be automatic title shots for anyone on their roster.

Pittbull hasn’t broken through like those aforementioned guys. As @Stan pointed out, they didn’t get anything automatic, either. In fact, Big Nog’s first and only UFC run was almost stopped by a Heath headkick. I suspect Pitbull would be stopped before he put together three or so wins, too. He won’t get any easy ones — no softballs like Rampage or Big Nog.

I mean, I’m kind of comparing apples and oranges when I say that. In terms of scale Bellator is bigger than Pride ever was. They have 11 active divisions. Pride had like 4 and a half lol. The price tag on Bellator will probably be higher than the 70 million UFC paid for Pride as well.

Pride has significance because for a while it took over as the top watched MMA org, and a large portion of its roster filled up top 10 rankings from MW-HW, and a scattered few outside those weight classes. Bellator is well established as the number 2 org though and has been for a long time.

The biggest difference today is that there is massive distance between the UFC and everyone else, but that’s because the UFC has grown dramatically since acquiring Pride.

 

[TorontoTO]

He’s getting back surgery, most likely we won’t see Pitbull again until the new year