Post-Vegetarian Rant

[Lizardman]

I just looked up some stuff about vegetarian proteins and found a thread I made from 5 years ago.

Man, if I only knew

Oh yeah XTrainer, I never answered your question about why (did I chose vegetarianism) It

 

[hardheart]

I'm pretty much in the same boat as you.

I did the vegetarian thing (or so I thought) for about 9 months or so back a few years ago. Absolutely wrecked my body.

The minutia of what has meat in it kills me. There's meat in everything. They cook fries from fast food places in beef fat. They put gelatin in gummy bears. Etc. Soup? Guess again (unless specifically labeled).

 

[Sinister]

4) Lets just tackle this morality thing right now. Any vegetarian or vegan who tells me killing animals is bad hasn't ever A) thought too hard or B) worked for their food before. Even gardening is an inherently violent act to an extent. I acknowledge some of us place livestock/game on a higher pedestal than "pests" and bugs, but killing is killing. Death is a part of the Life package. Next time a vegan feels Holier than Thou, ask them how many rodents died for that bowl of lettuce they’re eating.

This is a very valid point. There's no way out of the life and death cycles of the planet. It's a very frustrating argument to have, though, because a lot of times it's rooted in a traumatic experience. I've met many non-meat eaters who even involuntarily will pinpoint their disdain to a moment where they saw or learned of death, and it was never explained to them. Thus, they were left with a skewed perspective on death itself to the degree where all they have to do is not be able to perceive it, and they're alright with it. I've had many discussions where the moral line was drawn between plant and animal, but biology will tell us that plants to not want to die either. Roses have thorns. Many plants have toxic chemicals they emit as defense. Some have inedible or even sharp growths to protect their seeds (offspring). The notion that it's alright to kill a plant because it doesn't "feel" pain or perceive death is simply over-humanizing the natural World. I hope anyone who feels that way gets resurrected as a carrot.

 

[Lizardman]

The minutia of what has meat in it kills me. There's meat in everything. They cook fries from fast food places in beef fat. They put gelatin in gummy bears. Etc. Soup? Guess again (unless specifically labeled).

The vegan vegetarian line is apparently getting gray-er, but I personally didn't have issue with animal products per se. Meat != animal products. And gummy bears/marshmallows/jello etc? I just avoided that stuff due to its lack of purpose in my mouth. Eggs however are a different story.

I've had many discussions where the moral line was drawn between plant and animal, but biology will tell us that plants to not want to die either. Roses have thorns. Many plants have toxic chemicals they emit as defense. Some have inedible or even sharp growths to protect their seeds (offspring)

Heck, a whole category of my favorite foods is based on this fact; spicy foods and their capsaicin. Jalapenos, poblanos, anaheims, chillies, etc. are all inherently as evil as meat based on this (sound) logic.

The notion that it's alright to kill a plant because it doesn't "feel" pain or perceive death is simply over-humanizing the natural World. I hope anyone who feels that way gets resurrected as a carrot.

Lol.

 

[Revok]

Ordering the vegetarian meal? There's more animal blood on your hands

Good article about the ethical arithmetic of vegetarian vs omnivore diets (specifically in reference to Australia's ecosystem, but the principle holds true worldwide).

tl;dr: vegetarians are heartless, murdering fucks.

 

[Mary Jane]

 

[DCLXVI]

I can understand the moral standpoint, but every omnivore (even vegetarian) has run into that over zealous Vegan. Those people have ruined any chance of me even attempting even vegetarianism.

 

[Mary Jane]

I can understand the moral standpoint, but every omnivore (even vegetarian) has run into that over zealous Vegan. Those people have ruined any chance of me even attempting even vegetarianism.

Then obviously, no, you don't understand the moral standpoint.

In other news, this whole thread is such a load of crap. :icon_lol:

Especially this part:

While I still think it's possible to be a high level athlete and meat free (Diaz bros), to pull it off successfully takes A) money B) a personalized diet or nutritionist) or c) such an innate understanding of nutrition/physiology/physics it's basically out of reach for most of us; I gave it years of effort and ended up wrecking myself - so if I can't do it, I doubt any of you can either :icon_lol:

I'm sure Diaz didn't have A, B or C when he started doing it at age 15.

You changed your diet because of a girl, man.

And that's the main reason you failed. I know you wanna save your face now by blaming other factors besides yourself, but that's just weak.

 

[hardheart]

Ordering the vegetarian meal? There's more animal blood on your hands

Good article about the ethical arithmetic of vegetarian vs omnivore diets (specifically in reference to Australia's ecosystem, but the principle holds true worldwide).

tl;dr: vegetarians are heartless, murdering fucks.

New thing catching on here in the states:

Veganically grown produce.

Certified organic produce that has no animal products used (blood meal etc). The gf buys some greens that are Veganically grown. Good stuff.

 

[xPINKx]

It's simply "vegan", not "veganic".
Also, there is no rational argument for vegetarianism, it's all personal choice. If you believe you are not a good person if you kill Bambi, okay, but quit bitching and don't be surprised if you and your body don't do that well on such a diet...

 

[Seriously-Dead]

tl;dr: vegetarians are heartless, murdering fucks.

Very true, but so are most other people. I'm a food snob, so forgive me for what I'm about to say - anyone who eats factory farmed meat or dairy on a regular basis is just as stupid and twice as ignorant as a vegetarian/vegan. At least vegetarians are attempting to act morally, despite being ill-informed. That's more than I can say for most meat eaters.

 

[PWR1982]

Your "morality" reasoning is pretty poor imo. I'm not a vegetarian, but I can clearly see why someone would be one. I don't think it's something that can be argued as simply as this.

What is happening to animals is very cruel, and by eating meat, I am in a way supporting what's happening. I know this, and am completely conscious of my decision, so I know that I am basically doing something morally "evil". I don't find it evil enough to stop eating meat though.

The fact that some people will do this killing process for me, and that I don't have to see the suffering of animals... that makes it a lot more tolerable I think, so my decision of supporting what's happening to animals doesn't make me as sad - I never come into contact with the killed animals.

It's very hypocritical of me and a bit ironic. I let people kill animals, which in turn makes animals suffer much more... but at the same time, I don't have to do it myself and I never come into contact with these animals (which I think makes me care for whatever happens to them much less).
By my moral standards, I'm doing something evil, and I have no explanation for it, I can't justify it at all. I think many others are like this too.

Only thing I can come up with is, that I'm an evil prick that just doesn't care enough to make a change ... then again, am I really evil when the majority of people is doing it too?
I guess I just don't care.

 

[dirtypablo]

Im a vegetarian, mostly for moral reasons, and I dont think Im holier than anyone. I realize beings are killed in the production of my food. I also drive a car, and the front of it is covered in dead bugs. Im sure many of the other non food products I use cause deaths of beings somewhere along in their production. There is no way you can live your life without killing other beings. Even just breathing, you occasionally breathe in bacteria, and your immune system kills it. That being said, for me, vegetarianism is just one small way I can try to have less of a negative impact on the world around me.

And I dont believe that, "well, vegetarianism is actually worse" nonsense. Every article or book Ive seen on the subject compares mass scale farming of veggies to either hunting or getting meat from a small farm which is completely ridiculous, and completely neglects the fact that while farming veggies still results in the deaths of animals, those animals usually led decent, free lives up to their deaths unlike animals on factory farms.

 

[Sinister]

We're assuming there is even a such thing as a Universal moral "correct" thing here for these kinds of arguments. Keep that in mind. Its a standard that only exists in the human mind, despite that there are animals who kill not for food or mating, but for what could be called sport and nothing more.

 

[hardheart]

It's simply "vegan", not "veganic".
Also, there is no rational argument for vegetarianism, it's all personal choice. If you believe you are not a good person if you kill Bambi, okay, but quit bitching and don't be surprised if you and your body don't do that well on such a diet...

Ass. The term is "veganically grown" meaning they use 0 animal products in the production of the food.

 

[xPINKx]

Ass. The term is "veganically grown" meaning they use 0 animal products in the production of the food.

Oh, wow. Sorry. But still, that is just wrong...

 

[hardheart]

Oh, wow. Sorry. But still, that is just wrong...

Right, wrong, whatever, it's a thing.

 

[DCLXVI]

Then obviously, no, you don't understand the moral standpoint.

In other news, this whole thread is such a load of crap. :icon_lol:

Especially this part:



I'm sure Diaz didn't have A, B or C when he started doing it at age 15.

You changed your diet because of a girl, man.

And that's the main reason you failed. I know you wanna save your face now by blaming other factors besides yourself, but that's just weak.

Your not adding to the thread, just making a fuss. Kinda typical in a sad way.

 

[Seriously-Dead]

We're assuming there is even a such thing as a Universal moral "correct" thing here for these kinds of arguments. Keep that in mind. Its a standard that only exists in the human mind, despite that there are animals who kill not for food or mating, but for what could be called sport and nothing more.

Don't go throwing this platitude around. Reminds me of a 16 year old who did drugs and read a book on philosophy. This attitude is total bullshit and it doesn't get anyone anywhere.

This isn't about killing for sport. This is about supporting a corrupt, unsustainable, disgusting industry that has no standards of quality, that doesn't give a shit about you, it's workers, or the animals as long as it doesn't impact their bottom line. If you want to take the side of arguing for mass-meat producers, by all means, grab the bull by it's horns. Good luck with that.

 

[forum poster]

Your "morality" reasoning is pretty poor imo. I'm not a vegetarian, but I can clearly see why someone would be one. I don't think it's something that can be argued as simply as this.

What is happening to animals is very cruel, and by eating meat, I am in a way supporting what's happening. I know this, and am completely conscious of my decision, so I know that I am basically doing something morally "evil". I don't find it evil enough to stop eating meat though.

The fact that some people will do this killing process for me, and that I don't have to see the suffering of animals... that makes it a lot more tolerable I think, so my decision of supporting what's happening to animals doesn't make me as sad - I never come into contact with the killed animals.

It's very hypocritical of me and a bit ironic. I let people kill animals, which in turn makes animals suffer much more... but at the same time, I don't have to do it myself and I never come into contact with these animals (which I think makes me care for whatever happens to them much less).
By my moral standards, I'm doing something evil, and I have no explanation for it, I can't justify it at all. I think many others are like this too.

Only thing I can come up with is, that I'm an evil prick that just doesn't care enough to make a change ... then again, am I really evil when the majority of people is doing it too?
I guess I just don't care.

Instead of complaing about how bad it is and how evil you are for supporting it why don't you switch to local pasture raised sustainable animal products? I'm from Australia and all my meat comes from either hunted over populated deer that my brother catches, kangaroo or local pasture raised animals.