Post-Vegetarian Rant

[Lizardman]

Im so confused how is being a vegetarian going to ruin your health? Unless you're a complete imbecile, its a cake walk... I'm sorry OP but im calling troll.

I never said being a healthy and balanced vegetarian was impossible. More like I had a lot to learn about nutrition overall and that I dived head-first into a mess. Feel free to bestow your ultimate vegetarian nutritional diatribe upon me at any moment sir holier-than-thou.

Some of you said turning vegetarian wrecked your body? Mind expanding on this?

Due to my apparent "you're doing it wrong" vegetarian diet, I ended up with craptastic joints that are still recovering, less than optimal muscle endurance (great cardio though), and more garbage-carbs than necessary which added unneeded weight. Joints were the worst part and I think taking a supplement to fix what I clearly broke due to my restricted diet is simply silly.

I think people who are vegetarian for moral reasons, but not vegan are full of shit and practicing conspicuous conservation, i.e. they get more out of telling people they are vegetarian as opposed to actually being vegetarian.

Because I really care what you think when I'm eating. . Have you ever thought becoming vegetarian could be possible without having such an ego about it?

Already did that and unfortunately it didn't work out very well in the long run. Now it's just back to the drawingboard.:icon_lol:

I do consider getting me a f'n expensive vitamix since I just dig shakes and it's a great way to fit more "live foods" into my schedule.

I'm well into hormone optimalisation these days and something I've been looking into are the Circadian Rhythms.
I have some Dutch books on the subject and a quick search on google gave me this English source for those who are interested on the subject: Journal of Circadian Rhythms

While i'm loosely familiar with the term, that stuff is WAY over my head; got some reading to do...

The "but you kill plants" argument just smacks of weak cynicism to me. Plants don't have brains or central nervous systems or scream. But that's whatever.

See, this is clearly what I meant to address when I opened the thread; something I'd label as a moral hierarchy and the inherent hypocrisy. A vegan won't eat beef, but is fine with gardening thus killing vertebrates / invertebrates / sentient life because it doesn't have a brain or central nervous system, irregardless of its intelligence and demonstrated desire to live. And don't give me that veganically grown weakness; in my eyes life is life - death is death.

Even as a vegetarian, I wasn't so locked in my morals that i'd starve before eating a hamburger (despite it's effects on my gut); like I said before, I have a responsibility to myself (i.e. self-preservation) first.

It's not black and white and you don't have to throw in the towel on vegetarianism because you need to eat to live. There are degrees of morality at play and vegetarianism lands on the "more right" side of things

Care to explain? In my world, morals are determined by circumstance and are very non-universal. This despite my spiritual beliefs to the contrary. Yeah, i'm confused too; working on it...

(in addition to overall human health promotion from not supporting factory farming practices). But you knew that already TS, you just tried to forget it.

Being healthy != being vegetarian. There are some of us who are flat-out unable to be vegetarian due to numerous allergies. More of us whom metabolize foods very differently. Blanket diets fail for a reason.

As for factory farming, yeah it's bad, never argued otherwise.

I'm years in on vegetarian (not vegan) training. Injury free and happy as a pig in shit. I'm a broke assed student so I just make 2-3 big dishes on Sundays (lasagna, beans, homemade veggie burgers, soups, lentil sloppy joes, salads, pasta, chili, etc etc) and supplement them with quinoa and brown rice and veggies and eggs and yogurt, etc etc, through the week. I pretty much eat like a pig which can run me a little extra $$ a week but I find it worthwhile. Blood work is all good as of last month. Nothing to bitch about that comes to mind. Also--B12 can be fixed with shots or dedicated supplements. Talk to your doctor. Also nutritional yeast fucking owns on popcorn and in eggs.

That right there's my red flag. B12 shots? Really? At this point, does it occur to you that something may possibly be out of order??

Sorry you couldn't hang dude. :icon_neut

Now that I've switched things up, I'm hanging better than ever. I'm trying to be smart and to right by my body and have a little empathy for the world around me. Frankly, I'm happy with my new balance.

 

[doomtrain]

Vegetarianism should have been for yourself, not to feel morally superior over others. Maybe if you weren't concerned with dumb shit you would have been eating right. You should have tried a spinach and peanut butter smoothie or something.

 

[Lizardman]

Vegetarianism should have been for yourself, not to feel morally superior over others. Maybe if you weren't concerned with dumb shit you would have been eating right. You should have tried a spinach and peanut butter smoothie or something.

:icon_lol:



You serious? Did you even read?
Come on dude.

 

[forum poster]

The "but you kill plants" argument just smacks of weak cynicism to me. Plants don't have brains or central nervous systems or scream. .

Neither do clams or oysters yet vegans are still opposed to eating them. I think it's an image thing, maybe it would taint their pure vegan identity or something.

 

[Mary Jane]

4) Lets just tackle this morality thing right now. Any vegetarian or vegan who tells me killing animals is bad hasn't ever A) thought too hard or B) worked for their food before. Even gardening is an inherently violent act to an extent. I acknowledge some of us place livestock/game on a higher pedestal than "pests" and bugs, but killing is killing. Death is a part of the Life package. Next time a vegan feels Holier than Thou, ask them how many rodents died for that bowl of lettuce they

 

[Mary Jane]

Neither do clams or oysters yet vegans are still opposed to eating them. I think it's an image thing, maybe it would taint their pure vegan identity or something.

You forget that there is also an ecological perspective to this problem.

 

[JSN]

thanks for sharing, TS /sarcasm

 

[forum poster]

You forget that there is also an ecological perspective to this problem.

All the more reasons to choose restorative oyster farm produce in favor of living off ecosystem destroying soy and grain products.

 

[fatcat669]

Don't think for one second that wild animals that eat meat, such as feral pigs, bears, wolves, etc wouldn't do exactly what we do if they could. They have to fight for every meal they get (quite literally), so if they were capable of lining up hundreds of thousands of other weaker animals, don't you think they'd do it?

Survival of the fittest. I'm not going to go kill one pig at a time, clean one at a time, and eat one at a time if I have the luxury of getting a weeks worth of pig in my refrigerator.

This is one of the dumbest posts I've ever read, in the whole history of my sherdog browsing / trolling career.

 

[forum poster]

Rodents are killed for growing livestock feeding crops on a much more greater scale, as producing meat by using plant foods is much more inefficient than simply eating plant foods. Furthermore, livestock feeding crops are usually gmo monocultures which devastate the land. If someone genuinly cared about the plants and ecology, that person wouldn’t be making an argument for eating meat.

You know there's more and more sustainable meat producers that sell 100% grass fed meat right? Not all meat eaters choose to buy meat from factor farmed produced livestock. Not to mention hunters who sell meat from over populated introduced species that wreak havoc on the enviroment.

Research has shown that the recommended diet for joints problems is vegan gluten free diet.

What that study showed is that for people with RA, a gluten free diet is better than a standard diet with gluten in it.

In other news, there are natural sources of vegan B12. For example Aphanizomenon Flos-aquae algae is found to be an adequate and reliable vegan source of B12. 1 gram of AFA algae contains 6 mcg of vitamin B12. Recommended daily dose of B12 is 3 mcg.

Why not a better, safer and more natural source like oysters?

Furthermore, B12 is tipically produced by bacteria living on plants. However, this good bacteria get destroyed by the way most veggies are produced nowadays – withouth the real good soil and by using pesticides. My organically grown veggies, for example, contain good amounts of B12, that’s why I do not supplement it and my B12 status is great after being more than 10 years vegetarian and almost 4 years vegan.

Unless you're eating a lot of visable dirt and bugs on the fruit and veg you won't be getting adequate amounts of b12.

More than 60% od adults are deficient in B12 vitamin, regardless of animal product consumption. It would be smart for the whole population to supplement B12
There was a similar situation with iodine in the past, so it was decided that iodine would be added to table salt. You (along with the whole population of western world) are supplementing iodine every day withouth even being aware of it.

More than 60% of adults are b12 deficient? Source on that?
The only meat eaters who become deficient are those with auto immune disorders or other gastro intestinal issues.

 

[noahfor]

Where can one usually find these natural sustainable (or whatever) oysters that you keep mentioning? Also, how would one go about finding a hunter who sells meat? I don't know any.

 

[forum poster]

Oyster farming is generally a very sustainable practice. I'm not really into seafood but you can buy them at a local seafood co-op.
A lot of butcheries sell game meat if you make some enquiries. Depending on where you're from most places sell at least venison. Australia has a lot of deer, wild pig and kangaroo.

 

[Lizardman]

Stuff
P.S. - How is this for a constructive contribution to the thread. I apologize for my bad grammar and spelling - I was more occupied by growing veggies and punching people in the face

More Stuff

Good points, both of you. I have some reading to do - thanks.

 

[PoundUmOut2]

Also, how would one go about finding a hunter who sells meat? I don't know any.

go to a local gun/fishing/hunting store and ask around. theyre easy to find.

 

[modena1983]

go to a local gun/fishing/hunting store and ask around. theyre easy to find.

This. I love my venison vegetable stew!!

Also I want to thank the vegans for not eating meat, It leaves more for me.

 

[Mary Jane]

Why not...

Well, I wouldn't be eating animal products even it there would be no ethical or ecological problem with them, because I have optimal health, energy and endurance without it. Animal foods really slow me down and I feel like crap after eating them.

I was involved in a medical study which had the goal of comparing the health of vegans and omnivores and they did the complete health check up of the body - bloodworks, bone density, muscle mass, vitamin and mineral status, they even checked for toxic chemicals in the body, radiation, cell damage and weird shit like that. Also, they checked all the details of our lifestyle which could also play some significant role in health (like smoking, exercising, family history regarding illness, handling harmful chemicals, stress and stuff like that), so they could exclude all the other factors besides the food that could influence the results. They also thoroughly examined our diet history, supplementation and drug use - prescription and otherwise. They even took into consideration where we get our food from - how it is grown/raised.

In short, the results showed vegans kicked ass. And everybody got their personal results.

My bloodworks came out great, mineral and vitamin status also (optimum B12 levels and I ain't even supplementing). My bone density results came up 3 standard deviations above average for my sex and age group. I am in shape and completely healthy. My eritrocite and hemoglobin numbers are really high. I am also a regular blood donor. The doctor described my general condition with words "strong like a horse".

Why the heck would I wanna eat meat or animal foods? Horses don't either. :icon_lol:

 

[ChainFlow]

Surely such a revolutionary study is published in some peer reviewed journal?

And horses have hindgut fermentation abilities we don't. Ugh, vegan broscience.

Almost forgot: was it a straight up SAD vs vegan, or whole foods quality omni vs vegan? Yeah, thought so.

 

[Mary Jane]

Surely such a revolutionary study is published in some peer reviewed journal?

And horses have hindgut fermentation abilities we don't. Ugh, vegan broscience.

Almost forgot: was it a straight up SAD vs vegan, or whole foods quality omni vs vegan? Yeah, thought so.

It si not a revolutionary study, it's just one more study that proved what has already been proven. There is a meta-analysis of all the published studies regarding this topic which comes to conclusion that vegetarian and vegan diets are good for you and that is also the position of American dietetic association.

I mentioned the study I participated in, because it is a first-hand experience and the methodology was really thorough and expensive and they controlled everything they could, so the conclusions are very strong.

They used the method of equivalent couples, this is why they took all kinds of information on us and our lifestyle - so that they could find us a matching omnivore that would be almost identical in every other relevant aspect of their life, only differing in the fact that that person eats animal products. They did this so that they could be sure that any differences that would occur in the health parameters between the two groups are caused by consummation of animal products and not some other factor. They even controlled if the food was organic, whole and raw. So, answer to your question is - yes.

Sedentary, smoking and junk-food eating vegans got matched to sedentary, smoking and junk-food eating omnies, while active organic vegans got matching active organic omnies. There were even more lifestyle and genetic factors taken into consideration in the matchmaking, like I mentioned earlier. The researchers really did think this one through.

The study was conducted recently, so it has not yet been published in peer reviewed scientific journal, but the results have been presented at a medical conference here in my country. I keep checking if it got published already, but these things take some time. I will sure come back with the link on that when it gets out. For now you can trust me on it... or not. Whatever you choose.

 

[ChainFlow]

Until the methodology and results are in front of me, I think it is safe to be very skeptical of such supposed results.

Such "studies" invariably turn out to have deep flaws in their methodology or parsing of results which confirm whatever the researchers set out to prove to begin with. (See: China Study, etc)

Since you claim it is established knowledge (L-o-l) that vegan diets are superior to omnivore diets, surely you have some *other* studies than this as-yet unpublished paper which compare real-foods vegan to real-foods omni (or even paleo/primal/etc)? You couldn't have formed these opinions on the studies we all already know about, which compare health-conscious exercising, smoking/drinking-to-excess-avoiding, get-enough-sleep vegetarians to McDonald's-eating, smoking, beer-swilling SAD-eaters and miraculously find the vegetarians (not vegans) superior in health?

 

[forum poster]

Considering you already tried to mislead and embellish health studies you cited you'll have to forgive me for not holding my breath on this new revolutionary ground breaking study that finally proves veganism is the epitome of health.