pushy parents home schooling there kids for bjj

[smart.feller]

I have mixed feelings on this one.

I have a daughter who is nearly ten, and she is very good at softball. She is an all-star in her public little league and she is the ace pitcher on her team in her competitive league which travels around the region for tournaments. Aside from practices, she meets with and receives instruction from a former college pitching coach who won an NCAA national championship and takes batting lessons with a specialized coach once a week. These are all done after school hours. She loves softball. But she's 10.

When she was 7 and 8 I coached her youth soccer team, and we won back to back championships in our league. She was a very good goalie, averaging less than two goals allowed per game, which for youth soccer is pretty darn low. Most of our games ended 5-1 or worse for the other team, losing 3 games in a two year span. She easily could have continued excelling at soccer, but one day she said "I don't want to play soccer anymore".

and like that, her soccer "career" was done. She wanted to place the emphasis on softball. Although I am doing all I can to encourage her softball and overall athletic skills, including S&C drills that she and I will do on the weekends together, her love of softball may cease at any moment...and when it does, I feel it's my job as a parent to let it pass. She needs to do the things she loves and grow into the person that she envisions...

Although pulling her out of school would give her a greater chance to refine the skills she needs to continue to succeed at softball through the high school and college ranks, I feel that pulling her out of school would lower her exposure to other interests (choir, band, drama) and limit her becoming a truly well rounded person.

I won't let my dreams of athletic success that I was never able to attain for a variety of life reasons drive my parenting and force upon my child a life that she doesn't want, and I wouldn't pull her out of school to chase a dream when that dream can easily change as fast as her taste in music (dangit itunes, I wish there was a return policy for those awful kidz bop albums)

 

[stimbox]

I hole-hardedly agree, but allow me to play doubles advocate here for a moment. For all intensive purposes I think you are wrong. In an age where false morals are a diamond dozen, true virtues are a blessing in the skies. We often put our false morality on a petal stool like a bunch of pre-Madonnas, but you all seem to be taking something very valuable for granite. So I ask of you to mustard up all the strength you can because it is a doggy dog world out there. Although there is some merit to what you are saying it seems like you have a huge ship on your shoulder. In your argument you seem to throw everything in but the kids Nsync, and even though you are having a feel day with this I am here to bring you back into reality. I have a sick sense when it comes to these types of things. It is almost spooky, because I cannot turn a blonde eye to these glaring flaws in your rhetoric. I have zero taller ants when it comes to people spouting out hate in the name of moral righteousness. You just need to remember what comes around is all around, and when supply and command fails you will be the first to go. Make my words, when you get down to brass stacks it doesn't take rocket appliances to get two birds stoned at once. It's clear who makes the pants in this relationship, and sometimes you just have to swallow your prize and accept the facts. You might have to come to this conclusion through denial and error but I swear on my mother's mating name that when you put the petal to the medal you will pass with flying carpets like it

 

[Zankou]

I think skill negates athleticism to a degree in most sports though. The difference in BJJ and Wrestling is that there isn't really a large pool of physically athletic and creative competitors. Both sports are kind of niche sports here and the quality of coaching greatly varies. A non athletic guy can be a great wrestler and great BJJ competitor far easier than a non athletic guy could make the NFL or NBA not only because of the skill of the sports but more because the level of athleticism in NBA and NFL is so much higher at most positions.

A big part of this is that there is so little money or glory involved in BJJ or wrestling compared to the money sports. Technique tends to be much more important when the pool of competitors is comparatively small or weak, and there are major discrepancies in technique. As more people enter the sport, however, technical proficiency tends to even out more, and raw natural talent tends to be the decisive 5% edge.

From my understanding, most nations that have outsize success in elite athletic sports tend to have good programs for identifying superior athletes early and privileging them, rather than depending on parental support. China is notoriously monstrous for this.

If the U.S. had an equivalent system to China, which ID's talent early, you would see our wrestlers and judoka being much more competitive and much more talented athletes IMO ... as opposed to just being the cream of the small pool whose parents supported them with gleams in their eyes. More guys like this:

 

[Toastytoy]

I admire people who are one track minded and are the top of a sport, but im gonna teach my sons to be good at a lot of things and bang many fly bitches. That's what life is about imo

 

[Zankou]

 

[JustTheTip]

I have mixed feelings on this one.

I have a daughter who is nearly ten, and she is very good at softball. She is an all-star in her public little league and she is the ace pitcher on her team in her competitive league which travels around the region for tournaments. Aside from practices, she meets with and receives instruction from a former college pitching coach who won an NCAA national championship and takes batting lessons with a specialized coach once a week. These are all done after school hours. She loves softball. But she's 10.

When she was 7 and 8 I coached her youth soccer team, and we won back to back championships in our league. She was a very good goalie, averaging less than two goals allowed per game, which for youth soccer is pretty darn low. Most of our games ended 5-1 or worse for the other team, losing 3 games in a two year span. She easily could have continued excelling at soccer, but one day she said "I don't want to play soccer anymore".

and like that, her soccer "career" was done. She wanted to place the emphasis on softball. Although I am doing all I can to encourage her softball and overall athletic skills, including S&C drills that she and I will do on the weekends together, her love of softball may cease at any moment...and when it does, I feel it's my job as a parent to let it pass. She needs to do the things she loves and grow into the person that she envisions...

Although pulling her out of school would give her a greater chance to refine the skills she needs to continue to succeed at softball through the high school and college ranks, I feel that pulling her out of school would lower her exposure to other interests (choir, band, drama) and limit her becoming a truly well rounded person.

I won't let my dreams of athletic success that I was never able to attain for a variety of life reasons drive my parenting and force upon my child a life that she doesn't want, and I wouldn't pull her out of school to chase a dream when that dream can easily change as fast as her taste in music (dangit itunes, I wish there was a return policy for those awful kidz bop albums)

Its funny you bring up softball. I have a cousin that was a 3 time All American and started in 2 College World Series(Anjelica Selden). I'm not sure if she even played club and definitely didn't have private coaching and expensive camps as a kid. Time and time again I see parents that try and live through their kids. They try and push their kids to accomplish the things they haven't accomplished or use their kids' successes as a feather in their cap. I've NEVER seen this work. the kid always burns out and/or falls off hard. Honestly, when it comes to BJJ, I'm starting to think its a disadvantage heavily competing at a young age.All the local BJJ child prodigies i've seen has either stopped having success or just quitting BJJ all together.

 

[biscuitsbrah]

I admire people who are one track minded and are the top of a sport, but im gonna teach my sons to be good at a lot of things and bang many fly bitches. That's what life is about imo

Many fly bitches indeed

 

[JustTheTip]

A big part of this is that there is so little money or glory involved in BJJ or wrestling compared to the money sports. Technique tends to be much more important when the pool of competitors is comparatively small or weak, and there are major discrepancies in technique. As more people enter the sport, however, technical proficiency tends to even out more, and raw natural talent tends to be the decisive 5% edge.

From my understanding, most nations that have outsize success in elite athletic sports tend to have good programs for identifying superior athletes early and privileging them, rather than depending on parental support. China is notoriously monstrous for this.

If the U.S. had an equivalent system to China, which ID's talent early, you would see our wrestlers and judoka being much more competitive and much more talented athletes IMO ... as opposed to just being the cream of the small pool whose parents supported them with gleams in their eyes. More guys like this:

I disagree. I think the main reason is that BJJ and Wrestling doesn't have top athletes is because its not exposed to everyone in the US equally. Few inner city schools have wrestling teams or club teams with good coaching.Really wrestling seems to be biggest in less populous rural areas that aren't very diverse. In BJJ, cost is a prohibiting factor. The best coaches are really expensive and located in the most expensive areas of the US. BJJ is actually a middle class sport. So the pool of athletic competitors is extremely low.Sports like Basketball,Football,Track, and Boxing are available to pretty much everyone in the US.So because its available to everyone equally, the overall athletic level is high and we do well in those sports. Even though track competitors don't make that much money and there isn't that much glory, we are always top 5 in the world in Track.

 

[JustTheTip]

The sole reason we aren't dominant in Soccer is because its a middle class sport here. In other countries, soccer is open to everyone like Basketball is here.

 

[peregrine]

Still want to know where does the kid trains bjj from 8-5 from Monday to Friday and therefore needs to stop going to school.

Aoj is one school I am aware of that have many who kids home school.
They often have kids do multiple sessions a day from what I've heard and seen.

Outside of that many bjj clubs offer day classes. Thus an am, lunch and eve class would offer more time on the mat.

Going by that.
3 sessions a day x 1hr x 4sessions wk = 12hrs mat time. 48hrs mo. 576hrs yr.

vs

The "Serious" afterschool kid/competitor
1 session a day x 1.5hrs. x 4 x wk = 6hrs wk. 24hrs mo. 288hrs yr.

Or

The 2x wk kid(more likely)
1 session a day x 1.5hrs x 2wk = 3hrs wk. 12hrs mo. 144hrs yr.

In 1week the 3x day homeschool kid has the same mat hours as 1mo of the recreational kid or 2x the hours of the serious kid who has 4sessions a week.

This is not accounting for screen time watching matches and technique and tournaments.

 

[peregrine]

Kids in the USA actually train wrestling more. They will train about 3x a week, 2 hour practices then compete on the weekends.

Europeans will train wrestling about 3x per week. However, only 1 hour per practice will be wrestling and the other hour will be gymnastics and body awareness. They do not compete until teen years.



For wrestling and BJJ, it doesnt really matter because there are so many things that can negate the "athletic" factors that are key in sports like football or track. For example:

Speed can easily be negated in BJJ with a good guard. Strength can be negated with flexibilty and angles. Agility and good footwork can be negated with a simple guard pull. In a sport like BJJ, creativity and technique can be used as a much better weapon that anything that is genetic.

I've also heard and read similar, and they're more technique and isolation based sessions(correct me if I'm mistaken). Vs all the live and matches Americans are exposed to. This gives the athlete less wear and tear thus longer careers and potential for a higher ceiling.

 

[JustTheTip]

Aoj is one school I am aware of that have many kids home school.
They often have kids do multiple sessions a day from what I've heard and seen.

Outside of that many bjj clubs offer day classes. Thus an am, lunch and eve class would offer more time on the mat.

AOJ definitely has an impressive kids team too. I've heard of quite a few of the kids from there training full time and have some of the best coaches around. I'm real interested to see how they end up turning out as Black Belt adults though.I predict that somewhere out there there are kids their same age playing multiple different sports that haven't even started BJJ or just doing BJJ for recreation that will end up beating those same kids 10-15 years from now at Black belt adult.

 

[Zankou]

I disagree. I think the main reason is that BJJ and Wrestling doesn't have top athletes is because its not exposed to everyone in the US equally. Few inner city schools have wrestling teams or club teams with good coaching.Really wrestling seems to be biggest in less populous rural areas that aren't very diverse. In BJJ, cost is a prohibiting factor. The best coaches are really expensive and located in the most expensive areas of the US. BJJ is actually a middle class sport. So the pool of athletic competitors is extremely low.Sports like Basketball,Football,Track, and Boxing are available to pretty much everyone in the US.So because its available to everyone equally, the overall athletic level is high and we do well in those sports. Even though track competitors don't make that much money and there isn't that much glory, we are always top 5 in the world in Track.

Yeah but part of the reason they aren't exposed to it is because it's a niche sport that pays nothing and confers negligible social advantage in life. So that's the same issue.

If you want to get top national competitors for a niche sport that pays nothing, you can't rely on the general marketplace to sift them out for you. What happens in that instance is that you get a small pool with a lot of these middle class kids who were pushed by their parents, rather than kids with true talent.

In other words, you will get better athletes if (a) the sport pays big monetary/social dividends; or (b) the state or a high-level body has the ability to efficiently sift through a huge and diverse pool of athletes for the promising one.

 

[dimmyfinster]

Being good at sports doesn't necessitate the personal discipline to be good at the game called life. But personal discipline is a pre-requisite for succeeding in any field.

The vast number of broke NBA players have personal discipline - in basketball. But not necessarily personal discipline in finance. Personal discipline in one field is not directly transferable to personal discipline in another.


Holt is right that if you want to succeed at anything at the highest levels, you have to go all-in early.


Sending your kid to train BJJ all the time is a low-percentage decision, but probably what you have to do these days to succeed. And that's fine as somebody has to do it.


But pretending you have the mitigating factor of "at least he knows how to work hard if he fails" is wishful thinking.

 

[seamus1979]

Aoj is one school I am aware of that have many who kids home school.
They often have kids do multiple sessions a day from what I've heard and seen.

Outside of that many bjj clubs offer day classes. Thus an am, lunch and eve class would offer more time on the mat.

Going by that.
3 sessions a day x 1hr x 4sessions wk = 12hrs mat time. 48hrs mo. 576hrs yr.

vs

The "Serious" afterschool kid/competitor
1 session a day x 1.5hrs. x 4 x wk = 6hrs wk. 24hrs mo. 288hrs yr.

Or

The 2x wk kid(more likely)
1 session a day x 1.5hrs x 2wk = 3hrs wk. 12hrs mo. 144hrs yr.

In 1week the 3x day homeschool kid has the same mat hours as 1mo of the recreational kid or 2x the hours of the serious kid who has 4sessions a week.

This is not accounting for screen time watching matches and technique and tournaments.

Also some of the more recreational kids BJJ classes don't allow submissions until they've reached a certain level. My son goes to two different clubs and one doesn't allow submissions in training until grey belt. Up until then its all positional work.
Then you have clubs where seven year olds are doing flying armbars.
Hard to compare.

 

[lechien]

Aoj is one school I am aware of that have many who kids home school.
They often have kids do multiple sessions a day from what I've heard and seen.

Outside of that many bjj clubs offer day classes. Thus an am, lunch and eve class would offer more time on the mat.

Going by that.
3 sessions a day x 1hr x 4sessions wk = 12hrs mat time. 48hrs mo. 576hrs yr.

vs

The "Serious" afterschool kid/competitor
1 session a day x 1.5hrs. x 4 x wk = 6hrs wk. 24hrs mo. 288hrs yr.

Or

The 2x wk kid(more likely)
1 session a day x 1.5hrs x 2wk = 3hrs wk. 12hrs mo. 144hrs yr.

In 1week the 3x day homeschool kid has the same mat hours as 1mo of the recreational kid or 2x the hours of the serious kid who has 4sessions a week.

This is not accounting for screen time watching matches and technique and tournaments.

Aoj offers 6 kids class per day (week days).

All of them are after 3.30 pm and the kids comp class only starts at 5 pm.

Are you suggesting a kid trains at 6 am and lunch time in the adult class?

I still do not see the need to home school a kid in order to attend the aoj kid program or any other bjj kid program.

Is there any gym that offers kids bjj within school hours?

 

[smart.feller]

Its funny you bring up softball. I have a cousin that was a 3 time All American and started in 2 College World Series(Anjelica Selden). I'm not sure if she even played club and definitely didn't have private coaching and expensive camps as a kid. Time and time again I see parents that try and live through their kids. They try and push their kids to accomplish the things they haven't accomplished or use their kids' successes as a feather in their cap. I've NEVER seen this work. the kid always burns out and/or falls off hard. Honestly, when it comes to BJJ, I'm starting to think its a disadvantage heavily competing at a young age.All the local BJJ child prodigies i've seen has either stopped having success or just quitting BJJ all together.

I totally agree with you, particularly on the parent's pushing it for whatever the reason. I'm willing to give my daughter the opportunity for private coaching, private leagues, and more because A.) She enjoys it. B.) I can afford it C.) She is well above the average performance level for her age. If any of those three factors change, the lessons will have to go too.

I tried to get my kiddo into BJJ, she took a few classes, and decided she didn't want to do it...so I never asked her to again...I don't ever want to be the father equivalent of a dance mom or child pageant mom...I hate asshats like that, regardless of the competition. I have my own stuff (BJJ competitions, a small business I'm building from the ground up, and a few other hobbies) that I don't need to live vicariously through my child and when I see parents that do...I feel bad for them.

 

[peregrine]

Aoj offers 6 kids class per day (week days).

All of them are after 3.30 pm and the kids comp class only starts at 5 pm.

Are you suggesting a kid trains at 6 am and lunch time in the adult class?

I still do not see the need to home school a kid in order to attend the aoj kid program or any other bjj kid program.

Is there any gym that offers kids bjj within school hours?

I am not arguing for or against home school for a kid to do bjj.

For wrestling, gymnastics and other highly competitive sports I do see the potential and would consider it.

I was told and maybe misled that AOJ kids do train in the day during school hours. Maybe I was misled the time I visited at the Kids Pan Ams. I am also aware of several children and families from my state who moved in large part to train at AOJ. If you have better first hand knowledge, awesome.
If I was a gym owner I would not have an issue with teaching a kids class in the day if there was a demand if I knew the children were meeting their educational needs.


From anecdotal evidence most home school kids surpass their peers in academics in large part due to the ability to minimize fluff time and focus on work. A good teachers is irreplaceable, but the structure of many home school programs is scaffolded and works well for many kids.

re-
"Am I suggesting"
Yes, a highly motivated person could train multiple times per day. Training in the adult class or kids.
Are you not?

 

[peregrine]

Also some of the more recreational kids BJJ classes don't allow submissions until they've reached a certain level. My son goes to two different clubs and one doesn't allow submissions in training until grey belt. Up until then its all positional work.
Then you have clubs where seven year olds are doing flying armbars.
Hard to compare.

For what it's worth positional control is superior to weak and sloppy submissions.

 

[lechien]

I am not arguing for or against home school for a kid to do bjj.

For wrestling, gymnastics and other highly competitive sports I do see the potential and would consider it.

I was told and maybe misled that AOJ kids do train in the day during school hours. Maybe I was misled the time I visited at the Kids Pan Ams. I am also aware of several children and families from my state who moved in large part to train at AOJ. If you have better first hand knowledge, awesome.
If I was a gym owner I would not have an issue with teaching a kids class in the day if there was a demand if I knew the children were meeting their educational needs.


From anecdotal evidence most home school kids surpass their peers in academics in large part due to the ability to minimize fluff time and focus on work. A good teachers is irreplaceable, but the structure of many home school programs is scaffolded and works well for many kids.

re-
"Am I suggesting"
Yes, a highly motivated person could train multiple times per day. Training in the adult class or kids.
Are you not?

I don't care about pro and cons of home school.

I am just interest on how BJJ gyms are offering their services and BJJ is now perceived as a kid sport.

parents relocating so their kids can train at AOJ! that is pretty cool.

I think they have camps for competitions.

Maybe they have camps during schools holidays. I know that some local gyms do that as well.

I do not think kids should go to 6 am or lunch time classes that are for adults.

they would disturb the class.

Kids classes at AOJ are
3-5
5-7
8-13
kids competition