Rippetoe gives his thoughts on Cain and Junior's S&C and his thoughts on S&C for MMA

[redaxe]

Rip's not entirely wrong, if Cain were stronger, all else being equal, he would be an even better fighter. And I have no doubt that Rip could make Cain that strong, he's a solid strength coach. And leg extension machine is garbage. But Rip is not a conditioning coach or an MMA coach for a good reason, and Cain needs to do much more LISS cardio than Rip would have him do, to maintain his endurance which is one of his greatest strengths as a HW fighter.

 

[gspieler]

^^^JDS can likely hit those numbers already. I also have seen the vid of him DL'ing. IIRC he was cranking out sets of 10 with 315, conventional style. Might have served him well to cut back on some of the volume off his weight-training regimen, and use that extra time/energy to drill tdd and clinchwork.

 

[BellyDownArmbar]

Rip's not entirely wrong, if Cain were stronger, all else being equal, he would be an even better fighter. And I have no doubt that Rip could make Cain that strong, he's a solid strength coach. And leg extension machine is garbage. But Rip is not a conditioning coach or an MMA coach for a good reason, and Cain needs to do much more LISS cardio than Rip would have him do, to maintain his endurance which is one of his greatest strengths as a HW fighter.

Yea strength-wise I think the 250/350/450/550 goals were that Rip envisioned them for Cain and JDS, not DJ. Again, I'm sure he doesn't know Cain's geneticaly amazing aerobic cardio, but I get that him and JDS could do a lot worse than to follow Rip's advice and get the strength of a bull and maintain cardio. And they both seem already to be quite strong.

 

[Dan O]

Lol.

 

[Genghiz]

If Rip is only discussing it from the angle of increasing strength (i.e. not interfering with skills training and conditioning) I think he's generally on the right track. This year I switched to 2 days a week of barbell strength training (Tactical Barbell) which for all intents and purposes is just smart non-linear periodization paired with compound lifts.

I primarily train Muay Thai 3 days a week, lately sometimes 4. This is my own anecdotal experience,but since switching to two days of compound lifting/week, my durability and power have increased very noticeably. Heavy lifting and increases in my lifts did have a lot of carryover in my case. Noticeably so.

In the past I'd be fairly injury prone, this year I am injury free and just feel very solid overall. Far cry from when I'd do ridiculous high rep stuff with supposed 'carry-over' to fighting. That being said, on the conditioning side of things I'm still doing things like sprints, burpees, LISS and occasionally light high rep kettlebell stuff. And I think Rip is correct that lifting twice a week is probably more favorable than three for a fighter. As far as the prowler stuff, it's a good piece of equipment and a good workout, but it's not the be-all and end-all of cardio. I don't think Rip's qualified to make recommendations when it comes to the cardio/conditioning aspect of the sport, but I think he's on to something.

 

[Pathogenic]

Rip isn't really a conditioning expert. He's much more on the "S" side of "S&C", which is why I'm not surprised that he'd only have fighters doing sled work 2x per week. He's also the worst person in the world from whom to take diet advice. I agree with a two-day/week lifting split being a good idea for MMA fighters, but this is something I've struggled to do in my own training due to time and volume constraints. I prefer spreading my workload out over the week.

I strongly prefer Joel Jamieson's approach to conditioning.

 

[selfcritical]

Rip's not entirely wrong, if Cain were stronger, all else being equal, he would be an even better fighter. And I have no doubt that Rip could make Cain that strong, he's a solid strength coach. And leg extension machine is garbage. But Rip is not a conditioning coach or an MMA coach for a good reason, and Cain needs to do much more LISS cardio than Rip would have him do, to maintain his endurance which is one of his greatest strengths as a HW fighter.

Yeah. That's the rub. All other things are NOT equal. Cain has massively better aerobic endurance than the rest of the division, particularly people whom almost certainly exceed Rip's standards (Frank mir, Brock Lesnar, Overeem, Bigfoot). I agree that we saw some dumb shit in Cain's plan, but we also saw that he hits the treadmill regularly and for decent durations. It's an open question if you could get Cain as strong as Brock and Overeem without severely reducing the aerobic volume Cain's capable of. It's also entirely possible that by training smarter with full-body movements that he might actually be able to do MORE and maintain his current strength levels.

 

[BellyDownArmbar]

Rip isn't really a conditioning expert. He's much more on the "S" side of "S&C", which is why I'm not surprised that he'd only have fighters doing sled work 2x per week. He's also the worst person in the world from whom to take diet advice. I agree with a two-day/week lifting split being a good idea for MMA fighters, but this is something I've struggled to do in my own training due to time and volume constraints. I prefer spreading my workload out over the week.

I strongly prefer Joel Jamieson's approach to conditioning.

Agreed on the Joel Jamieson part. I still think that a fighter needs aerobic work, just as much as they need anearobic work. No point having just one or the other, IMO. While I had a gym to go to, Roadwork 2.0 really helped me, I felt great in BJJ.

 

[Was Exiled]

Today I learned that it's actually spelled Mark Rippetoe, not RippLetoe. Intredasting.

 

[MMouse]

Joel is a godsend when it comes to conditioning. I haven't seen much of his work in strength training though.

He keeps it pretty basic from what I understand. Compound lifts, body weight exercises, few sets of low to moderate reps.

He isnt to keen on having elite numbers for lifts since combat athletes shouldnt focus primarily on being the strongest. If you can bench 1.5x your bw, squat and deadlift double your weight thats good enough. Technique and conditioning play a heavier role.

If strength were to be focused. It should be in blocks far out from a fighter prepping for a fight. As sparring and heavy sport specific anaerobic work will be cut down.

 

[JRT6]

What amazes me is that Bill Starr never hit Rippetoe with a chair for stealing his stealing his lifting program and claiming it as his own. Albeit with a couple of fucked up ways to perform lifts that no other respected S&C coach does.

 

[BellyDownArmbar]

What amazes me is that Bill Starr never hit Rippetoe with a chair for stealing his stealing his lifting program and claiming it as his own. Albeit with a couple of fucked up ways to perform lifts that no other respected S&C coach does.

Which lifts exactly? Not saying this in a mocking tone but genuinely curious.

 

[BellyDownArmbar]

PS. Rip just posted again:

"The numbers (250/350/450/550) are rudimentary strength levels for an adult pro athlete at his bodyweight (referring to heavyweight) not amazing -- just decent. If he can't obtain them, he doesn't want to do the work."

 

[JRT6]

Which lifts exactly? Not saying this in a mocking tone but genuinely curious.

OHP and the clean. The fucked up way he teaches the clean, with a "Jump shrug" is the real reason he got the CF boot. That thing with sticking your gut out while OHPing is beyond definition.

Plus I think it goes without saying that people who throw bombs at other trainers can at least look like they train themselves. At least a little.

 

[BellyDownArmbar]

OHP and the clean. The fucked up way he teaches the clean, with a "Jump shrug" is the real reason he got the CF boot.

Plus I think it goes without saying that people who throw bombs at other trainers can at least look like they train themselves. At least a little.

By OHP, you're referring to the "Press 2.0", where you use your hips, correct?

 

[eastNYgoon138]

A body weight Strict Press is pretty beastly for someone who's training full time in a combat sport. TRT not withstanding.

Idk, big, athletic, professional athlete. Doesn't seem that impressive under those circumstances.

 

[Tosa]

I don't see a lot of bodyweight presses at my gym - if dedicated strength athletes can't do it, even if it's just an accessory lift, and still be competitive, I don't really see it being a reasonable expectation for a fighter.

OHP and the clean.

And the squat. I can usually tell when someone new at the gym has just read SS by the squat.

 

[eastNYgoon138]

I don't see a lot of bodyweight presses at my gym - if dedicated strength athletes can't do it, even if it's just an accessory lift, and still be competitive, I don't really see it being a reasonable expectation for a fighter.

We talkin strength athletes or weekend warriors? I don't see a lot of BW presses at my gym either, but I'm surrounded by weak 9-5ers. For an athlete, someone who trains for a living, has a nutritionist and likely has a pharmaceutical advantage over us mere mortals, a BW press doesn't seem that impressive.

And the squat. I can usually tell when someone new at the gym has just read SS by the squat.

They're squatting correctly?

 

[redaxe]

PS. Rip just posted again:

"The numbers (250/350/450/550) are rudimentary strength levels for an adult pro athlete at his bodyweight (referring to heavyweight) not amazing -- just decent. If he can't obtain them, he doesn't want to do the work."

If the 250 OHP were push press, I would have to agree with that, especially in the presence of PEDs. Like an NFL lineman should be able to hit those numbers easy. EASY.

 

[Tosa]

We talkin strength athletes or weekend warriors? I don't see a lot of BW presses at my gym either, but I'm surrounded by weak 9-5ers. For an athlete, someone who trains for a living, has a nutritionist and likely has a pharmaceutical advantage over us mere mortals, a BW press doesn't seem that impressive.

Primarily powerlifters. Some weightlifters and other athletes.

Weighing being a professional athlete, possible pharmaceutical advantage, etc, over not being a dedicated strength athlete, I'm not sure which would come out ahead.

They're squatting correctly?

I won't say incorrectly, because it's a can of worms, but I will say it looks odd compared to the other squats I see.