Roman Gonzalez Appreciation Thread

[Discipulus]

Gonzalez recent wins are filling out into a weight division and posturing to challenge Inoue, also Leon's loss to Ruenroeng is nothing to be ashamed of, that kid is still undefeated currently and beat Zou Shiming, and Ruenrong didn't waste him the way roman did. These fights also all happened damn near within 6 months of each other. You're comparing that to over 3 years worth of fights from Floyd. I don't think that's very fair. And I still think you're putting too much stock into Pacquiao. He's not looked the same since the KO loss, which is why I emphasize it so much.

That's fair. I'd be happy to put Roman above Floyd if he either beats Inoue or rematches and beats Estrada--which I'd actually like to see before the Inoue fight, to be honest.

 

[Sinister]

Since you mentioned Ruenrong, he's another under-appreciated guy:

 

[Discipulus]

No doubt about that. Ruenroeng was an underdog against Zou Shiming.

I should've bet my fuckin' house on that fight.

 

[Sinister]

A fight between he and Gonzalez is also likely.

 

[Brando]

Excellent training footage and GIFs. In the first GIF, I love the way he changes the trajectory of the incoming right hand with a subtle elbow lift. Turtling (shrinking into my shoulders, not shelling up a guard) with little elbow lifts like that has been something I've done forever as a defensive maneuver when my hands are out of position or occupied, but only recently started paying attention to as a drill-able technique. Gonzalez shows the value of it perfectly here.

 

[shs101]

Excellent training footage and GIFs. In the first GIF, I love the way he changes the trajectory of the incoming right hand with a subtle elbow lift. Turtling (shrinking into my shoulders, not shelling up a guard) with little elbow lifts like that has been something I've done forever as a defensive maneuver when my hands are out of position or occupied, but only recently started paying attention to as a drill-able technique. Gonzalez shows the value of it perfectly here.

That's very interesting I never noticed that. Is Andre Ward an example of someon that does this? Care to elaborate more

 

[Buddy Revell]

Romans a great boxer though i don't think he's quite as impeccable as some make him out to be...but i sure as hell appreciate his skills., so in keeping with the thread.

excuse if this has been posted before but its pretty instructional. Video in spanish but i'm just noting Roman and JMM going over mostly catch and shoot techniques (He's asked in reference to the Yaegashi fight and how he was able to get inside off of wide punches especially in combination)

Spoiler

[YT]seijieB8R_U[/YT]

3:23 Roman blocks the left hook with his right, then counters fast with 4 punch combo (1-2-1-2)

3:33 Roman jabs with him. Catches the jab then shoots the right off of the catch.

3:46 catch and shoots off the jab Only now, Roman adds a Left, Right.

4:28 as they circle each other, Roman catches the lefthook on his right glove then shoots his overhand right up the middle.

4:45 Marquez adds blocks the overhand with the left then shoots the left jabe off of it- followed by a right hand and uppercut. (Marquez shows this in reference to his fight with Manuel Medina)

5:10-5:30 Slipping the Jab and countering with a Jab to the Body (and finishing with a combo).

Spoiler

Just because: Here's Marquez vs. Manuel "Manteca" Medina
Genius combo at 7:15 (replay 10:13)
[YT]AevaWSXhsAA[/YT]

 

[Brando]

That's very interesting I never noticed that. Is Andre Ward an example of someon that does this? Care to elaborate more

I am in the office right now, but will try to find some relevant clips tonight. Andre Ward certainly does this often.

Broadly speaking, and referring more to the theory than this specific application, you might want to Google Barry Robinson's notion of "control," or what MT guys will call "framing." Basically, once you make contact with the opponent (with your hand, elbow, forearm, shoulder, head), you gain a number of offensive and defensive "control" options. Knowing how to use "control touches" is a great way to cover your ass if your hands are otherwise occupied punching.

You can engage with these forms of "control" in many different ways; if I want to initiate from range, I will probe with punches and mix in "control touches" that I can use to off-balance you, forcibly create an opening, blind you, or use as a lever to step around you. If you have initiated, I can still gain "control" with my blocks - when I parry your punch, I have control of it, and can do a number of things with it.

What Gonzalez does here with his elbow lift is in this same broad theoretical "school." He has hooked, and is countered quickly (a "button" counter), so his hand is out of position. Since his hooking arm has his elbow out front, it makes sense to use that as a contact point, to gain a measure of "control." At the very least, you get a better idea of the speed/distance/direction of the punch. Sometimes, you can actually parry the punch off with an elbow lift. Other times, you don't get that much time or opportunity. However, like Gonzalez does here, you can gauge its trajectory, and disrupt it. Lifting the elbow works well with a "turtling" motion because you are dropping down as you shift the punch's trajectory upwards.

You can PM if you want, as I am digressing here, and don't want to detract from the focus of this thread.

 

[shpboris]

some breakdown of his technique -

[YT]wabHUx9f-0U[/YT]

 

[Sinister]

Romans a great boxer though i don't think he's quite as impeccable as some make him out to be...but i sure as hell appreciate his skills., so in keeping with the thread.

excuse if this has been posted before but its pretty instructional. Video in spanish but i'm just noting Roman and JMM going over mostly catch and shoot techniques (He's asked in reference to the Yaegashi fight and how he was able to get inside off of wide punches especially in combination)

Spoiler

[YT]seijieB8R_U[/YT]

3:23 Roman blocks the left hook with his right, then counters fast with 4 punch combo (1-2-1-2)

3:33 Roman jabs with him. Catches the jab then shoots the right off of the catch.

3:46 catch and shoots off the jab Only now, Roman adds a Left, Right.

4:28 as they circle each other, Roman catches the lefthook on his right glove then shoots his overhand right up the middle.

4:45 Marquez adds blocks the overhand with the left then shoots the left jabe off of it- followed by a right hand and uppercut. (Marquez shows this in reference to his fight with Manuel Medina)

5:10-5:30 Slipping the Jab and countering with a Jab to the Body (and finishing with a combo).

Spoiler

Just because: Here's Marquez vs. Manuel "Manteca" Medina
Genius combo at 7:15 (replay 10:13)
[YT]AevaWSXhsAA[/YT]

lol@GGG is basically perfect despite getting hit quite a bit while Gonzalez does everything he does only against better competition and meh, he's overrated.

 

[Buddy Revell]

Nope. both are impeccable fighters who are nitpicked by people with an agenda either way. It's not an either or thing for me.

Edit: For what it's worth, Ring Mag has Chocolatito at #2 p4p and Golovkin at #4 p4p. (For those that think that theres some great distance in talent or skill between them)

 

[Brando]

Just to add to my previous post in reference to shpboris' video, here are some examples of "elbow lifts" and other forearm control:

At 1:29-1:30 Gonzalez tries a little elbow lift as he slips a jab to the outside. The slip gets the job done, but you can see him flip his left elbow as he really sinks his chin into his shoulders. He is anticipating a cross that doesn't come. Had his opponent thrown a cross from this position, Gonzalez's elbow would have been able to parry, block, or at least disrupt its trajectory, even while his arm is "traditionally" out of position, and his head/posture is committed back-and-low.

At 1:55, Gonzalez throws an uppercut then drops his elbow to smother and disrupt a left hand. It happens quickly, and isn't specifically what I'm talking about, but it's another example of the way an elbow can be used for control (however minor).

At 1:59, he breaks his opponent's posture with elbow/forearm pressure. Great way to get physical in close, have a lever for your movement (in this case, straight back), and creates openings.

At 2:16, he clamps down on the opponent's left hand to shut down offense from that side momentarily. Slower replay at 2:27 or so.

Freeze at 2:56 to see his right elbow used in close to set his opponent in line for a left hook. Just a bit of pressure, sets his shoulders for him, holds his opponent at the proper range and angle, and measures the distance.

The slow-mo at 3:27 beautifully shows off what I noted from that first GIF.

 

[Sinister]

Nope. both are impeccable fighters who are nitpicked by people with an agenda either way. It's not an either or thing for me.

Edit: For what it's worth, Ring Mag has Chocolatito at #2 p4p and Golovkin at #4 p4p. (For those that think that theres some great distance in talent or skill between them)

Nope. You clearly made a statement about Gonzalez not being as impeccable as some make out (whatever that means) while defending GGG's flaws in another thread.

That is an agenda, and it suggests you favor one guy over the other. Not that there's anything wrong with favoring a guy, except behaving as if one doesn't while making detracting statements.

 

[Buddy Revell]

I favor Golovkin (if that wasnt already clear). The sentence your picking on was probably a poor choice on my part..it happens.

The only agenda i have is in not thinking Golovkin is worthy of as much criticism as he gets. I feel no desire to nitpick Gonzalez...except in saying he's not flawless.

I made "A" statement, not statements, and then took the time to highlight a some of what makes him great. Dudes on this site have written paragraphs and whole articles criticizing Golovkin. But yes, i made a statement about Gonzalez, guilty as charged.

 

[Discipulus]

The Ring's ratings are bullshit, by the way. They've lacked all integrity since Golden Boy bought them out in 2012. The Transnational Boxing Rankings Board, who rank fighters now using the criteria the Ring used when they were still reputable, has Golovkin at #10 pound-for-pound, and that seems about right to me.

He's behind Sergey Kovalev, Juan Francisco Estrada, Guillermo Rigondeaux, Carl Froch, Tim Bradley, Wladimir Klitschko, Manny Pacquiao, Roman Gonzalez, and Floyd Mayweather. All of those guys are either objectively better than Golovkin, or have accomplished more than him in the sport.

 

[Buddy Revell]

Objectively better is a slippery slope...especially when your talking about a guy with the Pro record and Amateur pedigree that Golovkin has. And by more in the sport, i take it you mean as a Pro.

The biggest knock on him is his thin resume but, when the lineal MW champ would rather fight his leftovers

But, you can only give so much credit to what if's so, no biggie.


And yeah, credibility wise your completely right about the ratings body's.

 

[Discipulus]

Objectively better is a slippery slope...especially when your talking about a guy with the Pro record and Amateur pedigree that Golovkin has. And by more in the sport, i take it you mean as a Pro.

The biggest knock on him is his thin resume but, when the lineal MW champ would rather fight his leftovers

But, you can only give so much credit to what if's so, no biggie.


And yeah, credibility wise your completely right about the ratings body's.

I mean pro, yes. Otherwise Lomachenko would be in the top ten already--though it's probably not long till he winds up there.

You're right about the "objectively better" bit. Let's just say the guys above him are more proven at this point. Personally, I might put Juan Manuel Marquez above him too, since I had him beating Bradley on the heels of his knockout of Pacquiao, and he's got a hell of a resume besides that. But it is what it is.

Edit: Just learned that the TBRB did have Marquez above Golovkin on their list until he was inactive for a year, at which point they removed him.

 

[AllKickboxing]

Gonzalez has excellent fundamentals. His lead foot is like a heat seeking missile tracking his opponent's centerline and he's nasty on the inside too. Can't wait to see people take more notice of him after such an impressive HBO debut. Here's a great breakdown of the subtleties of his techniques:

[YT]3rq8iKZnRyc[/YT]

 

[Helmut Zemo]

Been my favourite boxer for a while, and I agree he is the best right now. He is probably the best combination puncher in the sport, best pressure fighter, and stylistically he has a lot of Arguello, Pryor, and Joe Louis in him.

 

[a guy]

Gonzalez has excellent fundamentals. His lead foot is like a heat seeking missile tracking his opponent's centerline and he's nasty on the inside too. Can't wait to see people take more notice of him after such an impressive HBO debut. Here's a great breakdown of the subtleties of his techniques:

[YT]3rq8iKZnRyc[/YT]

Ha, the crazy thing is that after that fight people were more impressed with GGG than El Chocolatito.

Nice video. Lee Wylie is is probably the best boxing analyst on youtube.