Ronda and Professional Boxing

[Sano]

It was an exaggeration to make a point. And just because she trained at Winklejohn's doesn't mean she's suddenly as good a grappler as Ronda, she's not, and it's disrespectful to Ronda to even suggest that GRAPPLING won Holm that fight. It's an ignorant notion that people who grapple primarily consistently use in MMA to make themselves feel better.

I see your point. I personally have a big affinity for striking and almost dislike pure BJJ/Wrestling. Especially in MMA. Nothing worse than watching someone pulling guard, OR someone getting lay 'n prayed by a wrestler. I'm with you on the underappreciation of footwork and proper boxing and it's usefulness in MMA too.

Her grappling didn't win the fight, but I still stand by that it helped her not lose it.

Key points was definitely Holm not letting Ronda get close and tagging her everytime, before she spun around her again. Holm looked really, really good. Suprisingly good actually and she dealt with the clinch excellently the few times Ronda did manage to force it. Also got out of an armbar attempt(albeit Ronda was not in a good position and pretty frazzled at that point).

 

[gotobread]

Also got out of an armbar attempt(albeit Ronda was not in a good position and pretty frazzled at that point).

The armbar attempt was fairly early, I think. So I don't think Ronda was too frazzled... yet.

And Holly was 1-1 for takedowns while Ronda was 0-1. So you could say Holly outstruck and outgrappled her.

 

[Sano]

The armbar attempt was fairly early, I think. So I don't think Ronda was too frazzled... yet.

And Holly was 1-1 for takedowns while Ronda was 0-1. So you could say Holly outstruck and outgrappled her.

It might have been earlier than I thought. Ronda did fall apart quick though.

Yeah, it was crazy man. Really didn't expect it to unfold like it did.

 

[Sinister]

I see your point. I personally have a big affinity for striking and almost dislike pure BJJ/Wrestling. Especially in MMA. Nothing worse than watching someone pulling guard, OR someone getting lay 'n prayed by a wrestler. I'm with you on the underappreciation of footwork and proper boxing and it's usefulness in MMA too.

Her grappling didn't win the fight, but I still stand by that it helped her not lose it.

Key points was definitely Holm not letting Ronda get close and tagging her everytime, before she spun around her again. Holm looked really, really good. Suprisingly good actually and she dealt with the clinch excellently the few times Ronda did manage to force it. Also got out of an armbar attempt(albeit Ronda was not in a good position and pretty frazzled at that point).

This is a much more fair assessment than the people who want to credit Holm's grappling in facilitating her striking. It was the other way around, really.

 

[flyingweelkick]

This is a much more fair assessment than the people who want to credit Holm's grappling in facilitating her striking. It was the other way around, really.

Exactly this. Her footwork and angles kept her out of a great deal many grappling exchanges. And as someone mentioned - by the time Rousey was able to initiate an actual submission attempt, she had had been hit several times. Being two steps ahead on the feet won her that fight.

Though she and her team do deserve a nod for their excellent 'counter grappling' if you will. Allowed her to get back to her bread and butter and land those shots.

It was a very technical and nuanced display of a "Sprawl and Brawl" gameplan.

 

[Marvin Covar]

Rogan is just in love with her. He cried about her loss more than she did.

Hahahaha. Rogan fanboyed hard.

 

[colby25]

This is a much more fair assessment than the people who want to credit Holm's grappling in facilitating her striking. It was the other way around, really.

Just to kind of throw my .02 cents into the conversation....

Obviously Holm's striking that won her the fight and if she ever tried to straight grapple Rousey she'd lose, and as we saw the other night...Rousey gets wrecked in a stand up fight against Holms.

Though- I think what sealed the deal is that Holm's made Rousey fight her fight and she didn't fight the fight that Rousey wants.... That's a big part of it, and then I think when we saw Holm's get back to her feet after being taken down and then ACTUALLY take down Rousey that's probably when I think the tables really turned.

Holm's has a great camp in her corner who are excellent strategist and no doubt her striking won the fight but she was able to implement and dictate the fight unlike the rest of the opponents that had fought Rousey...With so many facets in MMA and so many different ways to win - I think strategy is often overlooked and that's why i think greg jackson finds so much success.

getting a little off topic I mean think back to when GSP fought Bj penn...he muscled him for the first round in the cage just with clinch work...to tire BJ Penn out cause that's BJ Penn's weak spot and BJ could no longer effectively strike or grapple with GSP and then after that -that's when GSP implemented his gameplan...It was a genius tactic...and i think what won holms that fight was the strategy that her camp implemented.

That's my take on it anyway.

 

[fluffball]

Hahahaha. Rogan fanboyed hard.

He's pretty lame about it, but it's also really disturbing how the masses have gone all Stephen King on Ronda. The second she runs into adversity, people with their nooses and pitchforks are ranting about how she's a fraud and needs to quit fighting. I think for no other reason than she was/is popular.

 

[OriginalSpeedy]

"Rousey's coach Edmond Tarverdyan has insisted that she's already capable of competing with world champion boxers." - quote from the interview

"We've discussed it, and whenever she's ready to step into the ring as a boxer, then obviously Golden Boy Promotions will be right there with her." - Oscar De La Hoya

I don't blame Ronda as much as i do all the "yes men" that surround her. They create this false sense for her. It's all an illusion. I really hope that she finds better trainers and "no men" who can be straight up honest with her and help her become the well rounded MMA fighter that she deserves to be.


http://www.foxsports.com/ufc/story/oscar-de-la-hoya-wants-to-promote-ronda-rousey-as-a-boxer-110215

The fight was a wake-up call to maybe use a different boxing trainer. It happens and she is very loyal to those loyal to her.

 

[Paradigm]

The fight was a wake-up call to maybe use a different boxing trainer. It happens and she is very loyal to those loyal to her.

how about diversifying her striking a bit? yeah, i know she stopped McMann with a knee but can you show me a video where she's ever doing padwork with Thai pads? i figured that would be a staple in MMA these days. maybe her kicks aren't strong enough to require pads like that though.

 

[WillW]

It was a genius tactic...and i think what won holms that fight was the strategy that her camp implemented.

That's my take on it anyway.

It wasnt that different from her usual gameplan. Holm has always been a southpaw out fighter with good kicks. Rousey had no pressure game to speak of and would constantly run herself into traps. She gave Holm the outside angle several times and got tagged.

Rousey looked like a fish out of water on the feet for a good portion of the fight. Holm's counter grappling was very necessary and allowed her to continue her gameplan without fighting in Rousey's world, but her footwork and her striking in general were directly her gameplan and endgame strategy.

He's pretty lame about it, but it's also really disturbing how the masses have gone all Stephen King on Ronda. The second she runs into adversity, people with their nooses and pitchforks are ranting about how she's a fraud and needs to quit fighting. I think for no other reason than she was/is popular.

Its not just Ronda herself, It's her delusional fans that really piss some people off(myself included)

She is clearly a talented and skilled fighter but when people start labeling her as the best P4P fighter in mma or saying this is the biggest upset ever, it tends to enrage people. Namely fans who actually know a small amount about MMA.

Its a huge dis-service to guys like Weidman, Jones, DJ, Aldo, etc to even mention her with them. Her skill level isnt close to their's and her opponents are not even in the same league as the type of fighters the male champs have to deal with. Of course she will be dominating the division so handily, the talent pool is so bad(the skill level AND talent level are so far behind).

She fights a skilled and talented fighter and look at what happens

 

[Paradigm]

It wasnt that different from her usual gameplan. Holm has always been a southpaw out fighter with good kicks. Rousey had no pressure game to speak of and would constantly run herself into traps. She gave Holm the outside angle several times and got tagged.

Rousey looked like a fish out of water on the feet for a good portion of the fight. Holm's counter grappling was very necessary and allowed her to continue her gameplan without fighting in Rousey's world, but her footwork and her striking in general were directly her gameplan and endgame strategy.


Its not just Ronda herself, It's her delusional fans that really piss some people off(myself included)

She is clearly a talented and skilled fighter but when people start labeling her as the best P4P fighter in mma or saying this is the biggest upset ever, it tends to enrage people. Namely fans who actually know a small amount about MMA.

Its a huge dis-service to guys like Weidman, Jones, DJ, Aldo, etc to even mention her with them. Her skill level isnt close to their's and her opponents are not even in the same league as the type of fighters the male champs have to deal with. Of course she will be dominating the division so handily, the talent pool is so bad(the skill level AND talent level are so far behind).

She fights a skilled and talented fighter and look at what happens

this! it's a little insulting when you've watched the sport so much and then to see the level of hyperbole laid on by the UFC. I get its for the casuals but not everyone is a casual and having to hear the casuals and mainstream media (who don't know shit about MMA) talk up Rousey because of it was just too much. I respect her skills and accomplishments, even though I dislike her persona. like Brock, it would be a tragedy for WBW if she left the division now and never came back.

 

[fluffball]

It's not as simple as Ronda just now fighting someone with skill. Holly's got her number, but Holly is no god walking amongst mere mortals either... she won a split decision over Raquel Pennington, who no one will have heard of in another 12 months. It's like saying Barao has never faced any real competition because TJ has his number.

Ronda's a legit MMA fighter that handily beats (and has beaten) anyone in the division except for Holly. She's not that great at striking, but her improvements are almost staggering (partly because she was so horrible to begin with.) So it's not like she's not trying.

But ya, UFC, hyperbole, Goldberg screaming "____ IN UFC HISTORY", etc.

 

[gotobread]

It's not as simple as Ronda just now fighting someone with skill. Holly's got her number, but Holly is no god walking amongst mere mortals either... she won a split decision over Raquel Pennington, who no one will have heard of in another 12 months. It's like saying Barao has never faced any real competition because TJ has his number.

Ronda's a legit MMA fighter that handily beats (and has beaten) anyone in the division except for Holly. She's not that great at striking, but her improvements are almost staggering (partly because she was so horrible to begin with.) So it's not like she's not trying.

But ya, UFC, hyperbole, Goldberg screaming "____ IN UFC HISTORY", etc.

Holly's team said she held back in her previous fights. Whether you believe them or not, 6 out of her 7 fights before the UFC ended up KO/TKO.

As for allegedly staggering improvements to her striking, I'm not even sure how you could measure something like that given how quickly her fights have ended. She threw 47 total strikes in the four fights between the 2nd Tate fight and Holm (versus 19 in the 5 before the 2nd Tate fight).

Tate actually put up a good fight in their 2nd meeting. She took Rousey out of the 1st round for the 1st time and landed a good number of strikes.

 

[DoctorTaco]

It's not as simple as Ronda just now fighting someone with skill. Holly's got her number, but Holly is no god walking amongst mere mortals either... she won a split decision over Raquel Pennington, who no one will have heard of in another 12 months. It's like saying Barao has never faced any real competition because TJ has his number.

Ronda's a legit MMA fighter that handily beats (and has beaten) anyone in the division except for Holly. She's not that great at striking, but her improvements are almost staggering (partly because she was so horrible to begin with.) So it's not like she's not trying.

But ya, UFC, hyperbole, Goldberg screaming "____ IN UFC HISTORY", etc.

It certainly shakes up the division. I think tate gives holly a rough time, I think holly beats Ronda again, and Ronda beats tate again.

 

[dat1978]

Rousey has some boxing skill, no doubt about it. In the short time she focused on striking her improvement has been in leaps in bounds. With that being said, she went up against a champion boxer. That is no small task, even for one with an undefeated streak such as hers.

She still has a chance to box professionally, but I wouldn't rank her just yet.

Hopefully people start to realize that boxing is more than throwing punches. I would say that she has improved leaps and bounds in throwing punches, but not boxing. Her boxing is still poor.

 

[Alpha Omega Man]

It certainly shakes up the division. I think tate gives holly a rough time, I think holly beats Ronda again, and Ronda beats tate again.

*yesgif

Hopefully people start to realize that boxing is more than throwing punches. I would say that she has improved leaps and bounds in throwing punches, but not boxing. Her boxing is still poor.

look up...

 

[fluffball]

As for allegedly staggering improvements to her striking, I'm not even sure how you could measure something like that given how quickly her fights have ended. She threw 47 total strikes in the four fights between the 2nd Tate fight and Holm (versus 19 in the 5 before the 2nd Tate fight).

Dude how could you NOT see the improvements. I'm not even talking about something as complex as smacking someone else or as complex as not getting smacked. And yes I am using stupid vocabulary but no I am not kidding. I don't feel like doing a video essay where I dig up before and after videos for you because you're lazy, but I might be persuaded to.

 

[fluffball]

It certainly shakes up the division. I think tate gives holly a rough time, I think holly beats Ronda again, and Ronda beats tate again.

I had the exact same thoughts. I give Holly a like -100 edge over Tate, but that's not an easy fight. It's why I'm not flabbergasted that Ronda's loss is the end of the world. We've seen this sort of thing before in every single division, and it's why we watch combat sports! Some people can just beat other people.