Roy Moore gets donations boost after sexual assault accusations

I have never understood the "It was a different time" argument. It's always used to justify and rationalize away atrocious behavior.

People who employ that argument always think they have a knock down, drag out point of argument when they utter "Well, should we judge them by our time's standards?", to which I reply YES!

If does not excuse the immoral act, but it does not condemn the moral actor either.

We can not say that people are the products of an environment, and then when that environment is more toxic than our current niceties condemn, those people based on whatever the new-think is.

Especially since they went through the rigorous of a difficult, dangerous world we can not imagine and struggled to find what is right.

The people's of the past were as blind as anyone else, until they could see through a better way of civics, or through the force of revolution and war.

We stand on thousands of years of history that brought us the energy, the shelter, the food, the ideas of morality, the principles of ethics, and the impossible luxury of the internet in the matter of a couple of centuries, that we complain that their idea of human morality was flawed at different steps is often debased and selfish.

We owe our ancestors a debt, not the other way around.
 
I don't remember the specifics, but the 14yo told others of the sexual interaction, as did at least one of the 16yos

All the articles I find say that the 14yo told friends she was dating an older man - 1 friend confirmed it was Moore.

The 16yo has been proven to be false in numerous ways by women that worked at the same diner and she supposedly told people in later years; none which have been corroborated.
 
I posted this in the other thread, seems that it's needed in this one as well.............

Ok, I'm not defending anyone, but let's get a few things clear so that we can discuss this issue corectly. Broken into 4 sections/types of accusers:

Why is this a story "accusers":
*Gloria Thacker dated Moore when she was 18. He ordered wine for the 2 of them and the legal drinking age was 19.

*Debbie Wesson dated Moore for @ 3 months while she was 17 with her parents permission. He read poetry and and played his guitar and they kissed a grand total of twice in 3 months.

* Becky Gray claims Moore asked her out when she was 22 and he was 30. She found that creepy.



'Troubling, but ehh' accusers:
*Tina Johnson claims Moore grabbed her butt when she was 28.

*Kelly Harrison said Moore asked her out when she was 17 - said he dated girls her age all the time.

*Wendy Miller said he asked her out when she was 16. Her mom said no and he didn't ask again.



The 'this isn't even possible' accusers:
*Gena Richardson: alleges that Moore repeatedly asked her out when she was 18yo senior and that he called her while she was in trig class. Not only did he call, but she answered the phone.

Evidently this girl had one of the very first cell phones (invented in '71 and not available to consumers till '83) in the 70's and carried the bulky thing to class as she pleased.

martincooper1_wideweb__470x3620.jpg

BTW did I mention that thing cost $4k? Pretty high end item for a teen working part time at the mall. Oh and her friend corroborates this impossible story.


*Beverly Young claims Moore tried to rape her when she turned 16 while she was waiting on a ride from her boyfriend after the restaurant closed at 10pm.

4 Former waitresses have established that many of the factual details are simply wrong. The restaurant didn't close at 10pm - there wasn't an exit out the back parking lot - there wasn't any unlit areas in the parking lot - dumpsters were on the side of the building; not in the back - other waitresses never saw Moore at the establishment.





' Very troubling, but doesn't sound like any of the others' accusers:
*Leigh Coffman claims Moore went out with her while she was 14. That he gave her alcohol and touched her over her bra and panties.
He called her school. She had to go out of class to the office to talk to Statutory Roy.
Sorry to shit on you premise of trying to call a young girl who was harassed by a 30 year old man a liar because you are a party hack.
She did not have a cell phone and Creepy Roy called the school to talk to her.
 
I have never understood the "It was a different time" argument. It's always used to justify and rationalize away atrocious behavior.

People who employ that argument always think they have a knock down, drag out point of argument when they utter "Well, should we judge them by our time's standards?", to which I reply YES!
Not always, but many times it seems to me (my perception) that the argument is employed by those who don't belong to the group who was victimized by said behavior. Note: this is not a retort aimed at @Kafirkun ; it is just a general observation of the general populace to use that argument.

Thing is that even back then, there were tons of nice people. When slavery was acceptable, there were still lots of very vocal White people against it , on moral grounds. So it's not like most people didn't have a choice in takinig a moral stand.

And another reason why the "different time" argument fails (in American context0 is because people had the example of Jesus, who it was always claimed was in general a pacifist who defended the rights of the meek and oppressed. So how can American Christians excuse away past behavior by saying it was a "different time" when they had Christian compassion and empathy as a guide.

Some people are just looking for cop-outs, excuses and whatever else argument they can muster to not admit their ancestors did terrible shit, and many were shitty people. Germans don't try to excuse Nazi behavior by saying "it was a different time" , because Germans are forced to admit and acknowledge their wrongs, and because the Nazis lost.
 
You don't need to make up stuff with the cell phone argument. She was called to the principal's office to take the call. This is what she said if you ever read her statements. Making shit up just makes it look like you are pushing an agenda.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slat...ive_moore_her_number_so_he_called_her_at.html


The articles I read didn't say that:

https://splinternews.com/roy-moores-list-of-accusers-continues-to-grow-1820491935

http://time.com/5029172/roy-moore-accusers/


I'll have to look over her accusations again, but I'll note that she was 18. So she moves to the 'troubling, but ehh' category.


We're still left with only 1 accusation that needs to be looked at.
 
He called her school. She had to go out of class to the office to talk to Statutory Roy.
Sorry to shit on you premise of trying to call a young girl who was harassed by a 30 year old man a liar because you are a party hack.
She did not have a cell phone and Creepy Roy called the school to talk to her.

see my post above.

edit: and I don't belong to a party.
 
see my post above.

edit: and I don't belong to a party.
I am glad I quoted that shit post before you edited. The reason women don’t come forward is people like you make shit up and try to make the women out to be liars.
I have a daughter and if some 30 year man tries to call her at school, I would bury him in the swamp. Let the gators clean up my mess.
So you are OK with a 30 year old man calling girls at school to ask them out.
Statutory Roy is a scumbag and needs to disappear forever. Sorry I might be an idealist but I hope my elected officials do not have a history of harassing under aged girls.
 
I am glad I quoted that shit post before you edited. The reason women don’t come forward is people like you make shit up and try to make the women out to be liars.
I have a daughter and if some 30 year man tries to call her at school, I would bury him in the swamp. Let the gators clean up my mess.
So you are OK with a 30 year old man calling girls at school to ask them out.
Statutory Roy is a scumbag and needs to disappear forever. Sorry I might be an idealist but I hope my elected officials do not have a history of harassing under aged girls.

No, I'm not ok with it and I don't condone 30yo men dating teens.
With that being said, the girl was 18 so it's creepy, but it aint 'pedo rapey'.

So lets talk about the actual allegation that needs to be discussed instead of the all the peripheral bs that is "ehh".
 
The articles I read didn't say that:

https://splinternews.com/roy-moores-list-of-accusers-continues-to-grow-1820491935

http://time.com/5029172/roy-moore-accusers/


I'll have to look over her accusations again, but I'll note that she was 18. So she moves to the 'troubling, but ehh' category.


We're still left with only 1 accusation that needs to be looked at.


The guy was dogging her at the mall when she was 17. I don't give a shit but it matters to you. The phone call to the school was around her 18th birthday but it is so long ago that she can't remember if it was before or after.

"While working at Sears at the Gadsden Mall, then-17-year-old Gena Richardson was approached by Moore, whom she said was already infamously known among employees as a customer to “watch out for.”

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/t...oy-moore-of-sexual-misconduct/article/2640855
 
Don't believe any of the accusers - how about believing Statutory Roy himself -

Listen to his.

Specifically Moore's account of how he met his now-wife, Kayla Moore.

First, read his book. In it, Moore describes how he met his wife at a Christmas party hosted by friends. He would have been 37. She was 23.

"Many years before, I had attended a dance recital at Gadsden State Junior College," Moore wrote. "I remembered one of the special dances performed by a young woman whose first and last names began with the letter 'K.' It was something I had never forgotten. Could that young woman have been Kayla Kisor?"

Moore later determined that it was.

"Long afterward, I would learn that Kayla had, in fact, performed a special dance routine at Gadsden State years before," he wrote.

Take a second to think about what's being said here. Moore first took notice of Kayla at a dance recital?

Perhaps you're wondering what "many years" means, and I wondered that too. Luckily, Moore again has cleared that up for us.

In an interview Moore gave earlier this year, he gave a similar account, but for one detail.

"It was, oh gosh, eight years later, or something, I met her," Moore said. "And when she told me her name, I remembered 'K. K.,' and I said, 'Haven't I met you before?'"

It's a simple matter of subtraction. When Roy Moore first took notice of Kayla she would have been as young as 15.

There's a little fuzziness, to be sure, in the timeline. There's the "or something" Moore fudges with in the interview. Eight years before could have been slightly too early to put Moore in Gadsden, he started work as an deputy district attorney there in 1977.

So maybe she was 15, or maybe she was 16. But still, here is a grown man at about 30 years old attending a girls' dance recital, and doing what exactly?

This would have been 1976 or 1977. (My best guess is the latter.)

It was in 1977, Wendy Miller says, when Moore first approached her at the Gadsden Mall, where she was working as a Santa's helper. She was 14 at the time.

It was in 1977, Beverly Young Nelson says, when Moore assaulted her behind the Old Hickory House restaurant, where she worked as a waitress. She was 16 at the time.

It was in 1977, Gina Richardson says, when Moore called her at her high school to ask her on a date, a date in which she says he forcefully kissed and left her scared of him. She was 18 at the time.

Is it too much to believe that Roy Moore wasn't praying for women then but preying on women?

Is it too much to believe these women?

If so, then you don't have to. You just have to believe Roy Moore.
http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2017/11/you_dont_have_to_believe_the_w.html

<WellThere>
 
9 separate women come out and state they were assaulted/harassed by Moore and more are coming out each day. Totally different people with no connection. Is it more likely that Moore did assault these women or that this is some conspiracy theory to take him down? Use your freaking heads people.....

The guy is a hypocritical scumbag. Plain and simple
 
The guy was dogging her at the mall when she was 17. I don't give a shit but it matters to you. The phone call to the school was around her 18th birthday but it is so long ago that she can't remember if it was before or after.

"While working at Sears at the Gadsden Mall, then-17-year-old Gena Richardson was approached by Moore, whom she said was already infamously known among employees as a customer to “watch out for.”

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/t...oy-moore-of-sexual-misconduct/article/2640855


Time article says she met him just before or after her 18th birthday. I'd have to search for it, but another article said she was 18 at the time.

Yes, it matters if she was 17 or 18. 17 gets you 20 and 18 gets you a high five.
 
Don't believe any of the accusers - how about believing Statutory Roy himself -

Listen to his.

Specifically Moore's account of how he met his now-wife, Kayla Moore.

First, read his book. In it, Moore describes how he met his wife at a Christmas party hosted by friends. He would have been 37. She was 23.

"Many years before, I had attended a dance recital at Gadsden State Junior College," Moore wrote. "I remembered one of the special dances performed by a young woman whose first and last names began with the letter 'K.' It was something I had never forgotten. Could that young woman have been Kayla Kisor?"

Moore later determined that it was.

"Long afterward, I would learn that Kayla had, in fact, performed a special dance routine at Gadsden State years before," he wrote.

Take a second to think about what's being said here. Moore first took notice of Kayla at a dance recital?

Perhaps you're wondering what "many years" means, and I wondered that too. Luckily, Moore again has cleared that up for us.

In an interview Moore gave earlier this year, he gave a similar account, but for one detail.

"It was, oh gosh, eight years later, or something, I met her," Moore said. "And when she told me her name, I remembered 'K. K.,' and I said, 'Haven't I met you before?'"

It's a simple matter of subtraction. When Roy Moore first took notice of Kayla she would have been as young as 15.

There's a little fuzziness, to be sure, in the timeline. There's the "or something" Moore fudges with in the interview. Eight years before could have been slightly too early to put Moore in Gadsden, he started work as an deputy district attorney there in 1977.

So maybe she was 15, or maybe she was 16. But still, here is a grown man at about 30 years old attending a girls' dance recital, and doing what exactly?

This would have been 1976 or 1977. (My best guess is the latter.)

It was in 1977, Wendy Miller says, when Moore first approached her at the Gadsden Mall, where she was working as a Santa's helper. She was 14 at the time.

It was in 1977, Beverly Young Nelson says, when Moore assaulted her behind the Old Hickory House restaurant, where she worked as a waitress. She was 16 at the time.

It was in 1977, Gina Richardson says, when Moore called her at her high school to ask her on a date, a date in which she says he forcefully kissed and left her scared of him. She was 18 at the time.

Is it too much to believe that Roy Moore wasn't praying for women then but preying on women?

Is it too much to believe these women?

If so, then you don't have to. You just have to believe Roy Moore.
http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2017/11/you_dont_have_to_believe_the_w.html

<WellThere>


Umm, assuming she was 15 - probably not since it was at a JUCO - he didn't make any attempt to meet her when he "took notice of her" did he?

No, he just randomly met her at a Christmas party years later.

btw- the Nelson story has already been refuted by other waitresses at Old Hickory.
 
Umm, assuming she was 15 - probably not since it was at a JUCO - he didn't make any attempt to meet her when he "took notice of her" did he?

No, he just randomly met her at a Christmas party years later.

btw- the Nelson story has already been refuted by other waitresses at Old Hickory.

What was a 31-32 yr old man doing at a JUCO dance recital? Why would a 32 yr old man be remembering a dance by a 15 yr old eight years later. If it was 1977, why are all the other cases right around the same time as well? Seems like Statutory Roy went on the prowl looking for a teenaged girl at that time. His personal account of him first noticing his wife as a 15-16 yr old at a teenage dance recital lines up with the time frame of all accusers.

Would be interesting to see how random that meeting was at that Christmas Party.
 
9 separate women come out and state they were assaulted/harassed by Moore and more are coming out each day. Totally different people with no connection. Is it more likely that Moore did assault these women or that this is some conspiracy theory to take him down? Use your freaking heads people.....

The guy is a hypocritical scumbag. Plain and simple

Now this might be true, but I'm just saying look at the actual allegations. 2 of them aren't really like the others.

ex. A 22 yr old didn't like him asking her out - she found it creepy. That isn't exactly the same as trying to rape a minor.

ex. He dated an 18yr old hs senior with her parents approval - oh and he was a perfect gentleman to her. He did however order her wine.

ex. He dated a 17yr old with her parents approval - oh and he was a perfect gentleman.

ex. He asked out a 16yr old, but her mother said no and he never bothered her again.

ex. He asked out a 17yr old and said he dated girls her age all the time.

ex. He grabbed a 28yo woman's butt. I wont even explain why I don't believe this story, but if it's true why the jump to women in their late 20's?

ex. He called an 18yo at school to ask her out. This one is getting really strange.

Then you have the discredited Old Hickory story and the accusation by the 14 yr old.

In the south it is/was fairly common for hs girls to date older men with parental approval - Crap I knew at least 4 hs girls in VA that dated older men in the 80s - doesn't make it right, but it isn't like it's unheard of either.


If the 14yo's story is true then he needs to be locked away or worse, but imo the other "accusations" aren't evidence of that allegation.
 
What was a 31-32 yr old man doing at a JUCO dance recital? Why would a 32 yr old man be remembering a dance by a 15 yr old eight years later. If it was 1977, why are all the other cases right around the same time as well? Seems like Statutory Roy went on the prowl looking for a teenaged girl at that time. His personal account of him first noticing his wife as a 15-16 yr old at a teenage dance recital lines up with the time frame of all accusers.

Would be interesting to see how random that meeting was at that Christmas Party.

Why would teens have a dance recital at a JUCO? As for why would he be there - the same reason we attend shit at our local college; plays, musical recitals, etc. - it's to look cultured or because we were invited.

I've not read his book so I'll take your word for it, but are you suggesting that he went from liking teens to liking older girls? That doesn't happen with predators.
 
People with deep pockets really want the GOP tax plan to go through. Every senate vote counts
 
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