Russia/Ukraine Megathread V6

[Queen B]

 

[MIKOM]

These guys are absolutely fucked in the head.



The Russian TV presenter who showed a simulation of a nuclear attack on Ireland and Britain has responded to the Taoiseach's comments on an apology.

Dmitry Kiselyov twisted Mr Martin's comments and claimed it is British prime minister Boris Johnson who owes Russia an apology.

The simulation was initially shown in response to the UK's support for Ukraine.

Kiselyov is a close associate of Russian president Vladimir Putin and is perceived as a propagandist for the Kremlin.

Russia-1, the channel where his programme airs, is the most widely watched television channel in Russia.

He has now directly addressed anger in Ireland over the programme.

BBC journalist Francis Scarr shared a video of the presenter's remarks including English subtitles.

Kiselyov said: "In Ireland a strong reaction was provoked by remarks made in our programme two weeks ago in response to British PM Boris Johnson's threat to strike Russia without consultations with Nato.

"Let us remind you, it was a threat made to us from London. Back then, Boris Johnson made a provocative and absolutely groundless hypothesis, saying that Russia could allegedly use a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine. And after that, in response, and without consulting Nato, Britian would strike Russia.

"It's clear that Boris Johnson, having simulated a Russian nuclear attack, was also threatening us specifically with a nuclear strike in revenge.

"We had to say then that the whole British archipelago is basically a sinkable island, and Russia has every capability for such a nuclear retaliation. And Ireland literally flew into a rage.

'Collateral damage'
"Of course as a neutral country, it wasn't nice for Ireland to become collateral damage in Britain's clash with Russia. That said, the Irish premier held his ground firmly."

Kiselyov then played a recording, translated into Russian, of Mr Martin's comments on the simulation.

“It’s very sinister, intimidatory-type tactics by the Russian Federation, but I don’t think anyone is going to be intimidated by it,” he said.

“I think it reflects a mindset that is worrying and not in touch with reality, and I think there should be an apology forthcoming in relation to that.”

Kiselyov went on to say he agrees, but that Mr Johnson should make the apology.

He also claimed talking about Russia's nuclear capabilities was an "anti-war modality" and not intimidating.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland...d-responds-to-taoiseach-comments-1305541.html

 

[Fake Doctor]

It's actually kind of fascinating to think about this conflict in terms of a nation with a strong propaganda wing being in conflict with a power bloc with an even stronger one. How much of our media coverage is designed to explain who the good guys and bad guys are, and who's justified in doing what, rather than explaining what's happening? In the West we've managed to make the "punch a Nazi" crowd actually celebrate literal white nationalist groups. That's impressive.

 

[brothir]

It's actually kind of fascinating to think about this conflict in terms of a nation with a strong propaganda wing being in conflict with a power bloc with an even stronger one. How much of our media coverage is designed to explain who the good guys and bad guys are, and who's justified in doing what, rather than explaining what's happening? In the West we've managed to make the "punch a Nazi" crowd actually celebrate literal white nationalist groups. That's impressive.

That's a misreading of what's going on and further not very impressive. Most people don't like the latent nazism in the Azov battalion, and are primarily concerned with Ukraine's existence. The fact that some Ukrainian nazis are fighting against Russia's invasion is praise-worthy relative to them being nazis. If you're surprised or impressed that many have a pragmatic disposition to who's friend or foe, and what's necessary in dire enough situations, it's just you lacking capacity. And who's the power bloc and the propaganda you're speaking of?

 

[Fake Doctor]

That's a misreading of what's going on and further not very impressive. Most people don't like the latent nazism in the Azov battalion, and are primarily concerned with Ukraine's existence. The fact that some Ukrainian nazis are fighting against Russia's invasion is praise-worthy relative to them being nazis. If you're surprised or impressed that many have a pragmatic disposition to who's friend or foe, and what's necessary in dire enough situations, it's just you lacking capacity. And who's the power bloc and the propaganda you're speaking of?

Good point, and my mistake. Now that I think about it, they are the good Nazis that we should be praising, fighting a noble battle for the sovereignty of their national borders. This is totally in line with the rhetoric, within the West, about Nazis at this point - that discussion is all about fleshing out the nuance of whether the Nazis are doing good things or not. I was totally off base suggesting that there is a powerful propaganda wing that has us operating in a wildly inconsistent manner relative to how we generally talk about Nazis. Whoops.

 

[Deadwing88]

Former commander of all separatist forces in the Donbas.

 

[SandisLL]

In Ukraine nazis get lesser support in elections than in France and Sweden.
It is just Russian propaganda for lazy westerners in cubicles...Lazy and simple ppl...

 

[Strychnine]

 

[brothir]

Good point, and my mistake. Now that I think about it, they are the good Nazis that we should be praising, fighting a noble battle for the sovereignty of their national borders. This is totally in line with the rhetoric, within the West, about Nazis at this point. I was totally off base suggesting that there is a powerful propaganda wing that has us operating in a wildly inconsistent manner relative to how we generally talk about Nazis. Whoops.

You know the only way I can interpret this post is that you don't have an argument and are using sarcasm as a coping mechanism. "In line with western rhetoric" isn't very useful as a measuring stick because the history of Ukraine and Russia, and fascism/nazism in those countries is fairly unique. The nazist members of the Azov battalion are not the same as Richard Spencer in the context of how nazis are evaluated.

 

[Fake Doctor]

You know the only way I can interpret this post is that you don't have an argument and are using sarcasm as a coping mechanism. "In line with western rhetoric" isn't very useful as a measuring stick because the history of Ukraine and Russia, and fascism/nazism in those countries is fairly unique. The nazist members of the Azov battalion are not the same as Richard Spencer in the context of how nazis are evaluated.

You got me. I was totally off base. Totally different Nazis, and in keeping with the nuanced dialogue we have established around Nazis in the West. Carry on.

 

[brothir]

You got me. I was totally off base. Totally different Nazis, and in keeping with the nuanced dialogue we have established around Nazis in the West. Carry on.

It's more respectable to try and defend your position with arguments, even if they are wrong, than to just run away. It's basically impossible for anyone to think you genuinely believe what you write is correct when you instantly collapse into silliness on disagreement. If you think I'm wrong, why not try to convince me? Western philosophy in relation to nazism, nazism itself, and nazism in relation to both Ukraine and Russia are hefty topics with many facets to them, so there's all the room for making arguments.

 

[Fake Doctor]

It's more respectable to try and defend your position with arguments, even if they are wrong, than to just run away. It's basically impossible for anyone to think you genuinely believe what you write is correct when you instantly collapse into silliness on disagreement. If you think I'm wrong, why not try to convince me? Western philosophy in relation to nazism, nazism itself, and nazism in relation to both Ukraine and Russia are hefty topics with many facets to them, so there's all the room for making arguments.

Are you trying to shame me into arguing after two posts where I clearly state I had it wrong? As I said, this discussion about Nazis is totally I keeping with how the West generally talks about Nazis trying to fight to defend their national borders. You've convinced me - this is all totally on the up and up, and has nothing to do with narrative driven media. While I think it would be totally worth my time to dump hours into this 269 page thread to explain why this is a ridiculous breach in established norms of how we've treated certain groups for decades, that's obviously not the case. I'm convinced.

 

[SandisLL]

All these Kremlin's tales about Ukraine just makes me laugh like ....naive ppl in internet.

I had been in Ukraine.
2007, construction boom era...

I didn't had saw any nazism, rusofobia ( I usually used russian to talk with ppl ) etc.
While then....I had impression, God Help Us and make that these never will be in EU____
1. Nepotism, dear God, it is was worse than Mexico 100X.
2. Corruption.....had impression like this is Russia in 1990 ies and again .....Mexico will look like saint if compare.
3. Bribes and tax evasion as cultural norm de facto in all levels.

No one is ideal, I too, while ....this....
Like even a bit worse than 1990 ies in Russia.

 

[brothir]

Are you trying to shame me into arguing after two posts where I clearly state I had it wrong? As I said, this discussion about Nazis is totally I keeping with how the West generally talks about Nazis trying to fight to defend their national borders. You've convinced me - this is all totally on the up and up, and has nothing to do with narrative driven media. While I think it would be totally worth my time to dump hours into this 269 page thread to explain why this is a ridiculous breach in established norms of how we've treated certain groups for decades, that's obviously not the case. I'm convinced.

Trying to convince you to argue based on a sense of honour in believing what you yourself write is shaming you in a sense, I guess, but the ridiculousness of your performance here should garner most of any shame you feel. You can't drive me off with disingenuity. And if you are so averse to spending time arguing about the subject matter, why even bother posting at all? Why repetitively type these vacuous comments where your sole hook is relying on assumed self-evident ridiculousness? This is looking more and more like a propaganda number. @Denter , can you defend his points?

 

[Denter]

Trying to convince you to argue based on a sense of honour in believing what you yourself write is shaming you in a sense, I guess, but the ridiculousness of your performance here should garner most of any shame you feel. You can't drive me off with disingenuity. And if you are so averse to spending time arguing about the subject matter, why even bother posting at all? Why repetitively type these vacuous comments where your sole hook is relying on assumed self-evident ridiculousness? This is looking more and more like a propaganda number. @Denter , can you defend his points?

He's correct that the normal media narrative concerning national socialism or anything adjacent to it is not normally nuance. However, media hypocrisy is not really an interesting subject.

 

[MeatheadMike]

If any of you guys know hacking then could you please upload this inspirational video to every cellphone in Russian military base in Izium.

Would just demoralize them more since Dolph Lundgren is actually Sweedish and Sweeden is soon going to be joining NATO

 

[Clifford_Harris]

It's more respectable to try and defend your position with arguments, even if they are wrong, than to just run away. It's basically impossible for anyone to think you genuinely believe what you write is correct when you instantly collapse into silliness on disagreement. If you think I'm wrong, why not try to convince me? Western philosophy in relation to nazism, nazism itself, and nazism in relation to both Ukraine and Russia are hefty topics with many facets to them, so there's all the room for making arguments.

lol you literally made his initial point yourself. You're the one explaining why he's right without even realizing what you're doing. That suggests the propaganda has been strong and effective.

 

[brothir]

lol you literally made his initial point yourself. You're the one explaining why he's right without even realizing what you're doing. That suggests the propaganda has been strong and effective.

In what way did I not defend my position with arguments, and how am I running away?

 

[brothir]

He's correct that the normal media narrative concerning national socialism or anything adjacent to it is not normally nuance. However, media hypocrisy is not really an interesting subject.

Thankfully, he made claims beyond media hypocrisy, specifically that people who supported Spencer being assaulted are being hypocritical by thinking the Azov battalion are more justified than not given that Ukraine is being invaded, and that the West has more powerful propaganda than Russia. And, media hypocrisy is not an interesting subject, but you're more than happy to support comments about it with likes?

 

[Badr Hari]

Okay guys, gonna give you a russian perspective from one of their telegrams:

Front summary.

Kharkov direction.
The enemy continues to try to completely push the Russian Armed Forces and parts of the LPR reservists beyond the border line northwest of the city. In some places (between Kazachya Lopan and Volchansky, about a point - exclusively) the enemy has reached the border line and the front passes directly along it (approximately). Over the past day, the situation has not changed fundamentally.

South of Izyum. - After a long and bloody meat grinder, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation completely took the ruins of the village of Dolgenkoe. Fighting in the area around this settlement. continue. The enemy is actively counterattacking.
Fierce battles also continued in the area of the city of Liman (Krasny Liman), during which, in a few days, our troops advanced and liberated several settlements to the west and northwest. However, the city itself and its environs are stubbornly defended by the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

Severodonetsk-Lysichansk area.
As I expected, the enemy does not intend to surrender these cities without a long battle, even under the threat of encirclement. Which, however, is still far away. Stubborn fighting continues in the area north of Popasnaya with heavy losses on both sides.

There are no significant changes in the front in the Gorlovka area.

In the Donetsk area, our troops - personnel units of the DPR Armed Forces - yesterday attacked the outskirts of Staromikhaylovka (a suburb of Donetsk between Donetsk itself and Krasnogorovka) and are now conducting heavy bloody battles in this village. The situation in Maryinka is still not clear to me.

There are no changes in the front in the Ugledar region - the city itself has been turned into another "fortress" and is ready for a long defense.

I have very little information on the Zaporizhzhya, Krivoy Rog and Nikolaev fronts. In general, as far as I can judge, the position of the parties has not changed significantly, although in the past few days the Armed Forces of Ukraine managed to slightly push our troops in places.

General conclusion:
I must state with regret that the operation to defeat the enemy's Donetsk grouping, widely advertised in late April-early May, FAIL. For more than two weeks of fierce fighting (which cost both sides very heavy losses), only tactical successes were achieved. Not a single large settlement was liberated (the exception is the city of Rubezhnoye, but the battles for it began before the offensive began). Probably, certain tactical successes will still be achieved before the moment when the enemy goes over to the counteroffensive. But it is already clear that Donbass will not be fully liberated before the beginning of summer. Probably, the Armed Forces of Ukraine will not even be thrown back from the suburbs of Donetsk.
And I cannot say that this result is unexpected for me. Vice versa. The art of war requires its adherents to strike where the enemy least expects them. In our case, the intention of the Russian command was so obvious, the terrain was so beneficial for the defending side, and the balance of forces was almost equal on both sides, that only ... our General Staff could count on decisive success.
At the moment, our troops are drawn into exhausting offensive battles, continuing (as I have already noted) "to play by the rules proposed by the enemy." And the point is not only and not so much in individual examples of "outstanding bungling" (such as forcing S. Donets), but in the fact that losses incurred in daily offensive battles (not ending in the defeat of the enemy) cannot be quickly compensated by trained replacements. While the enemy continues to frantically prepare its strategic reserves. And where he will deliver his blows, when our troops will finally "run out of steam" - no one knows (although this can also be predicted, but I will not do this publicly ... until I do).