Senate Voted To Block Turkey From Getting Its F-35s As Spat Over Russian Missiles Grows

[Deleted member 457759]

^It's not that simple. Smaller but strategically important American allies like Canada, Australia, Turkey (until now) etc. simply don't have the industrial capacity to self sufficiently develop their own high end military hardware nor the raw wealth to do so in a viable way. Moreover, certain technologies (the F35 being one of them) were designed to be "export friendly" with significant anti-tamper tech built in to make them extremely difficult to "reverse engineer" or otherwise gleen sensitive information from. That said, the way Erdogan has been behaving of late is a massive red flag. As a citizen of a country that is poised to be a leading F35 operator, I am not at all enthusiastic about a guy like him having F35's at his disposal. I doubt it would be a big leap for a leader like that to hand a working airframe over to the Russians etc for "inspection". That's to say nothing of how troublesome an F35 equipped Turkish airforce might be if the country really went to crap (seems more possible by the day).

Canada has more than enough wealth to develop our own fighter jet program. We use to do it and we could do it today, just like Sweden.

The problem is Canadian apathy and lack of patriotism. Many Canadians are socialist and live in an alternate reality where defense isnt needed because we're so nice. Plus we can just ride on the back of American security. The problem is, and I've been telling my fellow Canadians this, is that we often smugly criticize the United states as war mongering. It's a conflict for me personally because if we're going to benefit from American defense spending we shouldn't undermine it at the same time.

 

[Prokofievian]

lol, never again

i was fascinated by the arrow as a kid but my god what a money pit

That's sort of the thing, though: once the arrow program was axed, where did those aeronautical engineers go? Down south, of course. The point of defence spending is like 99% to fund technological advances chez nous. Instead we've cut corners, killed programs, and funded innovation elsewhere. At this point we can't develop our own shit, we'd have to piggy back off another program. Even with regards to the ships we were discussing yesterday, we're explicitly using a pre-existing design to save money on ''research and development.'' Let's not save 30 billion and buy Italian/French ships though, because that'll take er jerbs.

 

[flashNsmash]

That's sort of the thing, though: once the arrow program was axed, where did those aeronautical engineers go? Down south, of course. The point of defence spending is like 99% to fund technological advances chez nous. Instead we've cut corners, killed programs, and funded innovation elsewhere. At this point we can't develop our own shit, we'd have to piggy back off another program. Even with regards to the ships we were discussing yesterday, we're explicitly using a pre-existing design to save money on ''research and development.'' Let's not save 30 billion and buy Italian/French ships though, because that'll take er jerbs.

a very good point

we will still pay through the nose for the 'design' effort, but we aren't innovating or producing anything new under the sun

 

[flashNsmash]

yeah but it was so Advanced and way ahead of its time. It would have been worth it in the long run

yup, and knowing us we'd still be flying them lol

 

[GhostZ06]

yup, and knowing us we'd still be flying them lol

Or at the very least have a mark 3 variant. i dont know, i feel like canada should develope its own jet and be a 2 frame airforce. F35s and something else.

 

[flashNsmash]

Or at the very least have a mark 3 variant. i dont know, i feel like canada should develope its own jet and be a 2 frame airforce. F35s and something else.

our domestic aerospace capabilities are currently the shits, unfortunately

even an industrial juggernaut like bombardier struggles to build anything more sophisticated than a dash-8, hence big daddy airbus' involvement

 

[flashNsmash]

i went to farnborough in '14 hoping to see the f-35 and the c-series fly. i saw neither lol

 

[ShinkanPo]

Trump Suspends Sale of F-35s to Turkey

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/us-news/trump-suspends-sale-of-f-35s-to-turkey/2018/08/14/

Good move by Trump!

Trump showing Erdog how its done! Erdo and his ilk thinks that "the west" has gone softy and have repeatedly criticize the E.U during the referendum.

But from what I can see this current US administration will start pushing back againts wanna be bullies like Erdo,Kim and Rouhanni. The USA wont be politically upstage this time by the likes of Erdo

 

[ShinkanPo]

our domestic aerospace capabilities are currently the shits, unfortunately

even an industrial juggernaut like bombardier struggles to build anything more sophisticated than a dash-8, hence big daddy airbus' involvement

Well atleast you know the Dash-8 can pull off barrel rolls and loops without dissintigrating.

 

[flashNsmash]

Well atleast you know the Dash-8 can pull off barrel rolls and loops without dissintigrating.

haha this is true!

 

[GhostZ06]

our domestic aerospace capabilities are currently the shits, unfortunately

even an industrial juggernaut like bombardier struggles to build anything more sophisticated than a dash-8, hence big daddy airbus' involvement

dont forget shitty ass leadership as that fucking pussy ass bitch running your country

 

[flashNsmash]

dont forget shitty ass leadership as that fucking pussy ass bitch running your country

wish i could forget

 

[GhostZ06]

wish i could forget

i want to forget i got a moron running my country too.

 

[Boagrius]

Canada has more than enough wealth to develop our own fighter jet program. We use to do it and we could do it today, just like Sweden.

The problem is Canadian apathy and lack of patriotism. Many Canadians are socialist and live in an alternate reality where defense isnt needed because we're so nice. Plus we can just ride on the back of American security. The problem is, and I've been telling my fellow Canadians this, is that we often smugly criticize the United states as war mongering. It's a conflict for me personally because if we're going to benefit from American defense spending we shouldn't undermine it at the same time.

In theory perhaps but not practically speaking. Canada simply does not posess the national corporate knowledge to produce a modern (5th or 6th gen) aircraft, and the amount of investment required to obtain it would be prohibitive. Even Sweden (who are now WAY ahead of Canada here) are looking to partner with someone on their next fighter. Developing them alone is getting REALLY difficult across the board (*cough* Su57 *cough*).

Modern fighter development has come a tremendously long way since Canada last attempted it - propulsion, modern avionics, sensors and their integration, signature management.... these are all areas where Canadian industry has been utterly left in the dust. Bridging that gap would be a monstrous exercise and one that would be so time consuming as to risk delivering an aircraft that was out of date upon delivery (think Japanese F2 or the Indian Tejas...).

It's a bit like saying that Russia has the wealth to build a fleet of large nuclear powered aircraft carriers. Theoretically yes - if they drastically changed their investment patterns - but practically no it's not happening any time soon.

 

[GhostZ06]

In theory perhaps but not practically speaking. Canada simply does not posess the national corporate knowledge to produce a modern (5th or 6th gen) aircraft, and the amount of investment required to obtain it would be prohibitive. Even Sweden (who are now WAY ahead of Canada here) are looking to partner with someone on their next fighter. Developing them alone is getting REALLY difficult across the board (*cough* Su57 *cough*).

Modern fighter development has come a tremendously long way since Canada last attempted it - propulsion, modern avionics, sensors and their integration, signature management.... these are all areas where Canadian industry has been utterly left in the dust. Bridging that gap would be a monstrous exercise and one that would be so time consuming as to risk delivering an aircraft that was out of date upon delivery (think Japanese F2 or the Indian Tejas...).

It's a bit like saying that Russia has the wealth to build a fleet of large nuclear powered aircraft carriers. Theoretically yes - if they drastically changed their investment patterns - but practically no it's not happening any time soon.

And i remember sweden had planes to make a 5th generation fighter

and yet they still want to make a next generation bomber which makes no sense to me. Fuck you cant even complete a fighter, how you gonna complete a top of the line bomber?

 

[babycart]

Really frustrating that we even sell our weapons systems to other countries in the first place. Why? Why not maintain far and away military superiority, rather than literally gift wrapping A+ pieces of tech that can be reverse engineered?

If the up-price of selling weapons to say major allies like Canada and England is enough to almost fully fund the bloated military budget, then maybe it'd be worth it. But it's clearly not judging by the amount of our tax money that goes to that never ending piece of the pie

For the US, economic security is national security. Look at the money they'll earn by selling, and then look at the fiscal budget they'll be getting to fight them former customers afterwards.