STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

[Eusung]

Rumor is that Kathleen Kennedy is already no longer in power at Lucasfilm....just a rumor at this point. She has been awfully silent the past few months (last time we saw her was during the Solo premier).

I hope some people in Lucasfilm got to Bob Iger expressed concern over Kathleen Kennedy's leadership and her antagonistic attitude towards Star Wars fans, and then he assessed the situation.

This would be similar to what happened at Marvel when Ike Perlmutter was running the show...and Kevin Feige threatened to resign...then Disney did a corporate shake up that made Marvel Studios separate from Marvel Entertainment, so now Kevin Feige reports directly to Disney, not Perlmutter. This happened in 2015. And it explains why phase 3 of the MCU pretty much killed it.

 

[One MMA Fan]

I'm going to waste 30 min of my day to write this post that won't do shit cause no one on sherdog will ever change their stance on anything cause God forbid.

- first he starts with a diss at KK.. for crying out loud she just said she has strong females in the SW films.. that's it. So let's burn her at the stake guys cause a woman in charge had the nerves to say something regarding her position, her movies, her gender, her opinion.. you guys have any idea how male driven the world of Hollywood is ? do you even realize what a big deal is to be a woman on top of the food chain, a big boss head of a studio that is moving around billions of dollars.. and wow she wore a t-shirt made by Nike for their shoe brand and some high school girls got her one and she wore it to their school event "that bitch took our FORCE and feminized it!!"
Then on stage she had the nerve to point out to her female lead and other actors that happen to be female just like her "oh my this is unacceptable it tainted my SW experience" do you people even hear yourselves and what the heck materials you are promoting ?

- lies about quality of the film.. terrible film based on what ? on the tomato meter that is mostly for the NA audiences.. oh wow so let's take the only big negative stat we have and let's just focus on that let's ignore IMDB that has more then double the votes, let's ignore the box office number of the movie that was NR 1 Worldwide in 2017.. let's ignore we are still talking about it .. when we have other big movies we never mention again 2 months after we saw it. But hey "WE" didn't like it so let's assume everyone has our stance on it.

- check out this crazy statement by JJ (duh cause most that watch my video won't ever read the full articles well guess what I did.. I read it all at the time they came out) JJ was asked about the SPECIFIC of people targeting the use of female lead(s) and female actors as center pieces of the movie/stories.. oh so now with knowing that then his response was totally validated and in the right in fact maybe he could have been a little more fierce to this snowflakes ? but hey I guess he knows more PR then me look at how even this tame responses are being used out of context. You goofs out there offended by JJ words they weren't meant for you even if you disliked the movies, they were meant for the people that took shots at the movies BECAUSE they are too female heavy for their tastes, for those Mary Sue parrots out there.. really you hitched your wagon to this guy huh ?

Spoiler

- they are promoting and pushing the fact they have a female lead.. what's so wrong about it ? they are pushing forward with what they have this time it's a female in Rey next movies maybe it will be a male Jedi who knows.. they aren't saying they are the only ones doing this NO ONE ever said that this is the video maker twisting things to make his little hater video. I wonder did he do a video for Wonder Woman too ? I seem to recognize some of the names around this parts in that topic when James Cameron was taking shots at WW for promoting themselves as this big movie directed by a female and lead by a female.. so no problem there but we have issues here huh. If SW has those toys in the sandbox no shit they will try and promote and push that angle is that really that surprising or that annoying ?

- takes a shot at Rey.. yes a mortally wounded, unbalanced, not really intent on killing her.. Kylo lost the fight.. can we get over this by now.. do we need to explain that situation all over again even now this goof didn't understand that scene and he probably never will. He shows Rey having a scuffle with Luke.. he thinks Luke was serious in that fight huh ? that wasn't the point yet again.
(PS: Snoke toyed with her quite easily.. and be sure Vader would have won a duel with her at that point too but let's put that in the video cause why not, let's compare apples to oranges cause he has a video to make)

- bad ass montage of ladies in film.. "I clapped, I know them all".. but what's the point again ? did anyone said SW has the embargo on female characters wtf ? why is this even there.

- he has half the clip talking about female leads in other movie, I guess cool.. but again wtf is his point and why did he put this into a SW video ? is he trying to make a connection to JJ comments ? that were directed on those specific crowds of haters that downloaded that 'no female SW movie cut' or at KK promoting her own female lead and actors ? is this it ? or he just went with some familiar and loved films and made a low hanging fruit of a connection to show that those other films are cool and the new SW is bad... guess it worked... did @GtehMVP @KnightTemplar @SmilinDesperado @moreorless87 did you guys clapped ?

- abilities they didn't earn ? the innate force grab.. that's his issue... it's fantasy the force awakened in her by now and this seem like a basic trick by now..or what the fleet leader not explaining her game-plan to the dude that was just punished for not taking orders and demoted.. dudes in any army he wouldn't even be on the bridge to ask for the plan he would have been incarcerated by now.

- so now everyone needs to be like Luke, we need to fallow that mold for EVER or else sir Robot Head and other goofs will take issues.. in this new trilogy with this new character things are different.. imagine that the horror.

- if the video maker would have left the scene go on with Rey he would have noticed the lack of control she displayed by "self training OMG" she almost killed a nun caretaker.
He has a problem with two of the most powerful and young force users defeating some bad guys extras ? okay.. geez I hope he doesn't watch a lot of action movies or he will be disappointed.

- he liked Ep 7 after he first saw it.. but he needed extra time and extra opinions to change his mind ? or wait did the second movie changed his mind on the first who freaking knows with this strange individual doing his little hater video cause you know that hate and conflict sells better just look at his channel less then 10k subs and he did a hate video with almost half a million views seems to be working I wonder how many like him "I liked EP 7 but I did this hate video cause this is good for business" do you people even listen to the words spoken or screw it: ramble ramble female leads, ramble ramble SW bad, ramble ramble oh ALIENS and TERMINATOR 2, ramble ramble screw KK and JJ.

- this great actor was a gimmick from the start.. armor looks cool, sells toys, looks good in a poster, sells a book, sells a comic.. but hey we need to bitch about stuff cause we dislike the movie right ? "where is my Snoke backstory, where is my Phasma screen-time" this are keeping you up huh ? we legit are in nitpicks territory right now.. wait till you see a Snoke movie down the line.. buy your tickets and show up please remember you bitched on sherdog about it for months you wanted your Snoke backstory god damn it.

- no one has a problem with you not liking a character.. absolutely no one, not JJ, not KK.. the heck is wrong with this circle jerk of a video.. the comments were directed on the people DISLIKING it because of the gender of the characters, you will never see them trashing anyone for not agreeing with their vision if it's a fair criticism but to point out silliness like Mary Sue, or force is female picture or the Rose character because she is ugly and female.. is the big no go and the direction of those intended comments.

- personal attacks at Loan Tran (Rose).. to end it all and prove he indeed is right in the mentioned groups that JJ was talking about.. by this point I had more then enough with this man and was glad to be at the end of his low quality video full of BS like I stated earlier but here I expanded on all of it.. and I think it took me more then half an hour and I'm so done with this silly video and silly posts.

And here goes nothing.. waste of time for both me and you. I'm so done with this it's not even funny.

 

[Clippy]

I'm going to waste 30 min of my day to write this post that won't do shit cause no one on sherdog will ever change their stance on anything cause God forbid.

- first he starts with a diss at KK.. for crying out loud she just said she has strong females in the SW films.. that's it. So let's burn her at the stake guys cause a woman in charge had the nerves to say something regarding her position, her movies, her gender, her opinion.. you guys have any idea how male driven the world of Hollywood is ? do you even realize what a big deal is to be a woman on top of the food chain, a big boss head of a studio that is moving around billions of dollars.. on wow she wore a t-shirt made by Nike for their shoe brand and some high school girls got her one and she wore it to their event "that bitch took our FORCE and feminized it!!"
Then on stage she had the nerve to point out to her female lead and other actors that happen to be female just like her "oh my this is unacceptable it tainted my SW experience" do you people even hear yourselves and what the heck materials you are promoting ?

- lies about quality of the film.. terrible film based on what ? on the tomato meter that is mostly for the NA audiences.. oh wow so let's take the only big negative stat we have and let's just focus on that let's ignore IMDB that has more then double the votes, let's ignore the box office number of the movie that was NR 1 Worldwide in 2017.. let's ignore we are still talking about it .. when we have other big movies we never mention again 2 months after we saw it. But hey "WE" didn't like it so let's assume everyone has our stance on it.

- check out this crazy statement by JJ (duh cause most that watch my video won't ever read the full articles well guess what I did.. I read it all at the time they came out) JJ was asked about the SPECIFIC of people targeting the use of female lead(s) and female actors as center pieces of the movie/stories.. oh so now with knowing that then his response was totally validated and in the right in fact maybe he could have been a little more fierce to this snowflakes ? but hey I guess he knows more PR then me look at how even this tame responses are being used out of context. You goofs out there offended by JJ words they weren't meant for you even if you disliked the movies, they were meant for the people that took shots at the movies BECAUSE they are too female heavy for their tastes, for those Mary Sue parrots out there.. really you hitched your wagon to this guy huh ?

Spoiler

- they are promoting and pushing the fact they have a female lead.. what's so wrong about it ? they are pushing forward with what they have this time it's a female in Rey next movies maybe it will be a male Jedi who knows.. they aren't saying they are the only ones doing this NO ONE ever said that this is the video maker twisting things to make his little hater video. I wonder did he do a video for Wonder Woman too ? I seem to recognize some of the names around this parts in that topic when James Cameron was taking shots at WW for promoting themselves as this big movie directed by a female and lead by a female.. so no problem there but we have issues here huh. If SW has those toys in the sandbox no shit they will try and promote and push that angle is that really that surprising or that annoying ?

- takes a shot at Rey.. yes a mortally wounded, unbalanced, not really intent on killing her.. Kylo lost the fight.. can we get over this by now.. do we need to explain that situation all over again even now this goof didn't understand that scene and he probably never will. He shows Rey having a scuffle with Luke.. he thinks Luke was serious in that fight huh ? that wasn't the point yet again.
(PS: Snoke toyed with her quite easily.. and be sure Vader would have won a duel with her at that point too but let's put that in the video cause why not, let's compare apples to oranges cause he has a video to make)

- bad ass montage of ladies in film.. "I clapped, I know them all".. but what's the point again ? did anyone said SW has the embargo on female characters wtf ? why is this even there.

- he has half the clip talking about female leads in other movie, I guess cool.. but again wtf is his point and why did he put this into a SW video ? if he trying to make a connection to JJ comments ? that were directed on those specific crowds of haters that downloaded that 'no female SW movie cut' or at KK promoting her own female lead and actors ? is this it ? or he just went with some familiar and loved films and made a low hanging fruit of a connection to show that other films cool and new SW is bad... guess it worked... did @GtehMVP @KnightTemplar @SmilinDesperado @moreorless87 did you guys clapped ?

- abilities they didn't earn ? the innate force grab.. that's his issue... it's fantasy the force awakened in her by now and this seem like basic trick by now..or what the fleet leader not explaining her game-plan to the dude that was just punished for not taking orders and demoted.. dudes in any army he wouldn't even be on the bridge to ask for the plan he would have been incarcerated by now.

- so now everyone needs to be like Luke we need to fallow that mold for EVER or else sir Robot Head and other goofs will take issues.. in this new trilogy with this new character things are different.. imagine that the horror.

- if the video maker would have left the scene go on with Rey he would have noticed the lack of control she displayed by "self training OMG" she almost killed a nun caretaker.
He has a problem with two of the most powerful and young force users defeating some bad guys extras ? okay.. geez I hope he doesn't watch a lot of action movies or he will be disappointed.

- he liked Ep 7 after he first saw it.. but he needed extra time and extra opinions to change his mind ? or wait did the second movie changed his mind on the first who freaking knows with this strange individual doing his little hate video cause you know what hate and conflict sells better just look at his channel less then 10k subs and he did a hate video with almost half a million views seems to be working I wonder how many like him "I liked EP 7 but I did this hate video cause this good for business" do you people even listen to the words spoken or screw it ramble ramble female leads ramble ramble SW bad ramble ramble oh ALIENS and TERMINATOR 2 ramble ramble screw KK and JJ.

- this great actor was a gimmick from the start.. armor looks cool, sells toys, looks good in a poster, sells a book, sells a comic.. but hey we need to bitch about stuff cause we dislike the movie right ? "where is my Snoke backstory, where is my Phasma screen-time" this are keeping you up huh ? we legit are in nitpicks territory right now.. wait till you see a Snoke movie down the line.. buy your tickets and show up please remember you bitched on sherdog about it for months you wanted your Snoke backstory god damn it.

- no one has a problem with you not liking a character.. absolutely no one, not JJ, not KK.. the heck is wrong with this circle jerk of a video.. the comments were directed on the people DISLIKING it because of the gender of the characters, you will never see them trashing anyone for not agreeing with their vision if it's a fair criticism but to point our silliness like Mary Sue, or force if female picture or the Rose character because she is ugly and female.. is the no go and the direction of those intended comments.

- personal attacks at Loan Tran (Rose).. to end it all and prove he indeed is right in the mention groups that JJ was talking about.. by this point I had more then enough with this man and was glad to be at the end of his low quality video full of BS like I stated earlier but here I expanded on all of it.. and I think it took me more then half an hour and I'm so done with this silly video and silly posts.

And here goes nothing.. waste of time for both me and you. I'm so done with this it's not even funny.

I don't know why you do this to yourself man

 

[Clippy]

Can someone link me to the new Mark Hamill is disappointed thing in the title? I love when MH is disappointed in TLJ, it further validates my avoidance of it

@Dragonlordxxxxx why u make this stuff so hard to find for us simple folk

THANK YOU

@Dragonlordxxxxx I've brought this up before - I love your content and you provide things I find out about here more than other places but when you edit the title and there's like 500 pages where amI suppose to go????

 

[Fraz]

They should do a Star Wars/Female Ghostbusters crossover next.

 

[Mike]

Again though even in that scene its not the same as Abrams showing Kirk peaking at Carol Marcus in her underwear like a schoolboy, its Jabba taking the strong Leia we see earlier in the film and looking to belittle her as much as he possibly can before she gets the one up and kills him.

What you could say I spose is that its a film for our era, Holdo might as well have been called Hilrary with the message of "Follow your leader reguardless because erm feminism and stuff". Even that is something we obviously saw in the earlier films that deal with Leia being the more senior political figure(not to mention leader of the whole alliance being a woman) and done so in a far superior fashion.

The reality is that the blockbuster era of the late 70's and 80's was actually a pretty progressive era, your dealing with the likes of Lucas, Speilberg and Cameron coming out of 60's counterculture. Leia, Marion, Sarah Conor, RIpley, etc and quite often a real political message to push. Again these days modern Hollywood just seems to go with empty tokenism.

This really nails it. Ultimately guys like Cameron, Lucas, Scott, Spielberg etc.were just better than the guys we have directing popcorn flicks now. There's a reason everything is a rehash or a reboot now.

 

[minute bull]

I'm going to waste 30 min of my day to write this post that won't do shit cause no one on sherdog will ever change their stance on anything cause God forbid.

- first he starts with a diss at KK.. for crying out loud she just said she has strong females in the SW films.. that's it. So let's burn her at the stake guys cause a woman in charge had the nerves to say something regarding her position, her movies, her gender, her opinion.. you guys have any idea how male driven the world of Hollywood is ? do you even realize what a big deal is to be a woman on top of the food chain, a big boss head of a studio that is moving around billions of dollars.. on wow she wore a t-shirt made by Nike for their shoe brand and some high school girls got her one and she wore it to their event "that bitch took our FORCE and feminized it!!"
Then on stage she had the nerve to point out to her female lead and other actors that happen to be female just like her "oh my this is unacceptable it tainted my SW experience" do you people even hear yourselves and what the heck materials you are promoting ?

- lies about quality of the film.. terrible film based on what ? on the tomato meter that is mostly for the NA audiences.. oh wow so let's take the only big negative stat we have and let's just focus on that let's ignore IMDB that has more then double the votes, let's ignore the box office number of the movie that was NR 1 Worldwide in 2017.. let's ignore we are still talking about it .. when we have other big movies we never mention again 2 months after we saw it. But hey "WE" didn't like it so let's assume everyone has our stance on it.

- check out this crazy statement by JJ (duh cause most that watch my video won't ever read the full articles well guess what I did.. I read it all at the time they came out) JJ was asked about the SPECIFIC of people targeting the use of female lead(s) and female actors as center pieces of the movie/stories.. oh so now with knowing that then his response was totally validated and in the right in fact maybe he could have been a little more fierce to this snowflakes ? but hey I guess he knows more PR then me look at how even this tame responses are being used out of context. You goofs out there offended by JJ words they weren't meant for you even if you disliked the movies, they were meant for the people that took shots at the movies BECAUSE they are too female heavy for their tastes, for those Mary Sue parrots out there.. really you hitched your wagon to this guy huh ?

Spoiler

- they are promoting and pushing the fact they have a female lead.. what's so wrong about it ? they are pushing forward with what they have this time it's a female in Rey next movies maybe it will be a male Jedi who knows.. they aren't saying they are the only ones doing this NO ONE ever said that this is the video maker twisting things to make his little hater video. I wonder did he do a video for Wonder Woman too ? I seem to recognize some of the names around this parts in that topic when James Cameron was taking shots at WW for promoting themselves as this big movie directed by a female and lead by a female.. so no problem there but we have issues here huh. If SW has those toys in the sandbox no shit they will try and promote and push that angle is that really that surprising or that annoying ?

- takes a shot at Rey.. yes a mortally wounded, unbalanced, not really intent on killing her.. Kylo lost the fight.. can we get over this by now.. do we need to explain that situation all over again even now this goof didn't understand that scene and he probably never will. He shows Rey having a scuffle with Luke.. he thinks Luke was serious in that fight huh ? that wasn't the point yet again.
(PS: Snoke toyed with her quite easily.. and be sure Vader would have won a duel with her at that point too but let's put that in the video cause why not, let's compare apples to oranges cause he has a video to make)

- bad ass montage of ladies in film.. "I clapped, I know them all".. but what's the point again ? did anyone said SW has the embargo on female characters wtf ? why is this even there.

- he has half the clip talking about female leads in other movie, I guess cool.. but again wtf is his point and why did he put this into a SW video ? is he trying to make a connection to JJ comments ? that were directed on those specific crowds of haters that downloaded that 'no female SW movie cut' or at KK promoting her own female lead and actors ? is this it ? or he just went with some familiar and loved films and made a low hanging fruit of a connection to show that other films cool and the new SW is bad... guess it worked... did @GtehMVP @KnightTemplar @SmilinDesperado @moreorless87 did you guys clapped ?

- abilities they didn't earn ? the innate force grab.. that's his issue... it's fantasy the force awakened in her by now and this seem like a basic trick by now..or what the fleet leader not explaining her game-plan to the dude that was just punished for not taking orders and demoted.. dudes in any army he wouldn't even be on the bridge to ask for the plan he would have been incarcerated by now.

- so now everyone needs to be like Luke we need to fallow that mold for EVER or else sir Robot Head and other goofs will take issues.. in this new trilogy with this new character things are different.. imagine that the horror.

- if the video maker would have left the scene go on with Rey he would have noticed the lack of control she displayed by "self training OMG" she almost killed a nun caretaker.
He has a problem with two of the most powerful and young force users defeating some bad guys extras ? okay.. geez I hope he doesn't watch a lot of action movies or he will be disappointed.

- he liked Ep 7 after he first saw it.. but he needed extra time and extra opinions to change his mind ? or wait did the second movie changed his mind on the first who freaking knows with this strange individual doing his little hater video cause you know that hate and conflict sells better just look at his channel less then 10k subs and he did a hate video with almost half a million views seems to be working I wonder how many like him "I liked EP 7 but I did this hate video cause this is good for business" do you people even listen to the words spoken or screw it ramble ramble female leads, ramble ramble SW bad, ramble ramble oh ALIENS and TERMINATOR 2, ramble ramble screw KK and JJ.

- this great actor was a gimmick from the start.. armor looks cool, sells toys, looks good in a poster, sells a book, sells a comic.. but hey we need to bitch about stuff cause we dislike the movie right ? "where is my Snoke backstory, where is my Phasma screen-time" this are keeping you up huh ? we legit are in nitpicks territory right now.. wait till you see a Snoke movie down the line.. buy your tickets and show up please remember you bitched on sherdog about it for months you wanted your Snoke backstory god damn it.

- no one has a problem with you not liking a character.. absolutely no one, not JJ, not KK.. the heck is wrong with this circle jerk of a video.. the comments were directed on the people DISLIKING it because of the gender of the characters, you will never see them trashing anyone for not agreeing with their vision if it's a fair criticism but to point out silliness like Mary Sue, or force is female picture or the Rose character because she is ugly and female.. is the big no go and the direction of those intended comments.

- personal attacks at Loan Tran (Rose).. to end it all and prove he indeed is right in the mentioned groups that JJ was talking about.. by this point I had more then enough with this man and was glad to be at the end of his low quality video full of BS like I stated earlier but here I expanded on all of it.. and I think it took me more then half an hour and I'm so done with this silly video and silly posts.

And here goes nothing.. waste of time for both me and you. I'm so done with this it's not even funny.

The detractors are largely misspoken. It's pretty awful because every shred of evidence pretty much backfires on them, but if we are to understand their position is to understand that they're trying to sound intelligent and logical about something that isn't intelligent nor logical.

No one can explain why or how something should be cooler.

They just want it to be cooler, and not so lame. Whether it's an attractive actress, or faster pacing, or a plot point that doesn't make them think too much -- they just wanted it to be cooler. There is no SJW argument worth having, because it doesn't exist anywhere but in the minds of the fearful. And you have to be gentle with those who are afraid of movies, or they get ugly. It's a scared pov, and there's no curing anyone else's fear.

But hey.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

I'm going to waste 30 min of my day to write this post that won't do shit cause no one on sherdog will ever change their stance on anything cause God forbid.

- first he starts with a diss at KK.. for crying out loud she just said she has strong females in the SW films.. that's it. So let's burn her at the stake guys cause a woman in charge had the nerves to say something regarding her position, her movies, her gender, her opinion.. you guys have any idea how male driven the world of Hollywood is ? do you even realize what a big deal is to be a woman on top of the food chain, a big boss head of a studio that is moving around billions of dollars.. and wow she wore a t-shirt made by Nike for their shoe brand and some high school girls got her one and she wore it to their school event "that bitch took our FORCE and feminized it!!"
Then on stage she had the nerve to point out to her female lead and other actors that happen to be female just like her "oh my this is unacceptable it tainted my SW experience" do you people even hear yourselves and what the heck materials you are promoting ?

- lies about quality of the film.. terrible film based on what ? on the tomato meter that is mostly for the NA audiences.. oh wow so let's take the only big negative stat we have and let's just focus on that let's ignore IMDB that has more then double the votes, let's ignore the box office number of the movie that was NR 1 Worldwide in 2017.. let's ignore we are still talking about it .. when we have other big movies we never mention again 2 months after we saw it. But hey "WE" didn't like it so let's assume everyone has our stance on it.

- check out this crazy statement by JJ (duh cause most that watch my video won't ever read the full articles well guess what I did.. I read it all at the time they came out) JJ was asked about the SPECIFIC of people targeting the use of female lead(s) and female actors as center pieces of the movie/stories.. oh so now with knowing that then his response was totally validated and in the right in fact maybe he could have been a little more fierce to this snowflakes ? but hey I guess he knows more PR then me look at how even this tame responses are being used out of context. You goofs out there offended by JJ words they weren't meant for you even if you disliked the movies, they were meant for the people that took shots at the movies BECAUSE they are too female heavy for their tastes, for those Mary Sue parrots out there.. really you hitched your wagon to this guy huh ?

Spoiler

- they are promoting and pushing the fact they have a female lead.. what's so wrong about it ? they are pushing forward with what they have this time it's a female in Rey next movies maybe it will be a male Jedi who knows.. they aren't saying they are the only ones doing this NO ONE ever said that this is the video maker twisting things to make his little hater video. I wonder did he do a video for Wonder Woman too ? I seem to recognize some of the names around this parts in that topic when James Cameron was taking shots at WW for promoting themselves as this big movie directed by a female and lead by a female.. so no problem there but we have issues here huh. If SW has those toys in the sandbox no shit they will try and promote and push that angle is that really that surprising or that annoying ?

- takes a shot at Rey.. yes a mortally wounded, unbalanced, not really intent on killing her.. Kylo lost the fight.. can we get over this by now.. do we need to explain that situation all over again even now this goof didn't understand that scene and he probably never will. He shows Rey having a scuffle with Luke.. he thinks Luke was serious in that fight huh ? that wasn't the point yet again.
(PS: Snoke toyed with her quite easily.. and be sure Vader would have won a duel with her at that point too but let's put that in the video cause why not, let's compare apples to oranges cause he has a video to make)

- bad ass montage of ladies in film.. "I clapped, I know them all".. but what's the point again ? did anyone said SW has the embargo on female characters wtf ? why is this even there.

- he has half the clip talking about female leads in other movie, I guess cool.. but again wtf is his point and why did he put this into a SW video ? is he trying to make a connection to JJ comments ? that were directed on those specific crowds of haters that downloaded that 'no female SW movie cut' or at KK promoting her own female lead and actors ? is this it ? or he just went with some familiar and loved films and made a low hanging fruit of a connection to show that other films cool and the new SW is bad... guess it worked... did @GtehMVP @KnightTemplar @SmilinDesperado @moreorless87 did you guys clapped ?

- abilities they didn't earn ? the innate force grab.. that's his issue... it's fantasy the force awakened in her by now and this seem like a basic trick by now..or what the fleet leader not explaining her game-plan to the dude that was just punished for not taking orders and demoted.. dudes in any army he wouldn't even be on the bridge to ask for the plan he would have been incarcerated by now.

- so now everyone needs to be like Luke we need to fallow that mold for EVER or else sir Robot Head and other goofs will take issues.. in this new trilogy with this new character things are different.. imagine that the horror.

- if the video maker would have left the scene go on with Rey he would have noticed the lack of control she displayed by "self training OMG" she almost killed a nun caretaker.
He has a problem with two of the most powerful and young force users defeating some bad guys extras ? okay.. geez I hope he doesn't watch a lot of action movies or he will be disappointed.

- he liked Ep 7 after he first saw it.. but he needed extra time and extra opinions to change his mind ? or wait did the second movie changed his mind on the first who freaking knows with this strange individual doing his little hater video cause you know that hate and conflict sells better just look at his channel less then 10k subs and he did a hate video with almost half a million views seems to be working I wonder how many like him "I liked EP 7 but I did this hate video cause this is good for business" do you people even listen to the words spoken or screw it ramble ramble female leads, ramble ramble SW bad, ramble ramble oh ALIENS and TERMINATOR 2, ramble ramble screw KK and JJ.

- this great actor was a gimmick from the start.. armor looks cool, sells toys, looks good in a poster, sells a book, sells a comic.. but hey we need to bitch about stuff cause we dislike the movie right ? "where is my Snoke backstory, where is my Phasma screen-time" this are keeping you up huh ? we legit are in nitpicks territory right now.. wait till you see a Snoke movie down the line.. buy your tickets and show up please remember you bitched on sherdog about it for months you wanted your Snoke backstory god damn it.

- no one has a problem with you not liking a character.. absolutely no one, not JJ, not KK.. the heck is wrong with this circle jerk of a video.. the comments were directed on the people DISLIKING it because of the gender of the characters, you will never see them trashing anyone for not agreeing with their vision if it's a fair criticism but to point out silliness like Mary Sue, or force is female picture or the Rose character because she is ugly and female.. is the big no go and the direction of those intended comments.

- personal attacks at Loan Tran (Rose).. to end it all and prove he indeed is right in the mentioned groups that JJ was talking about.. by this point I had more then enough with this man and was glad to be at the end of his low quality video full of BS like I stated earlier but here I expanded on all of it.. and I think it took me more then half an hour and I'm so done with this silly video and silly posts.

And here goes nothing.. waste of time for both me and you. I'm so done with this it's not even funny.

Bro, i respect that you took the time to write all that..but how did you write so much and miss the point so hard?
It really isn't that complicated.

The point the video was making by listing all those other female characters was to show that the haters of TLJ have NO problem with strong female leads. Those characters were NATURALLY strong. It wasn't forced. It made sense. There was no feeling or push of any sort of "girl power' agenda. They were just strong characters that happened to be female. I never felt like Ripley, or Sarah Conner were putting on a front. They were just strong characters. Them being female didn't even enter my mind.

Almost ALL of the new Star Wars characters are terribly written. And the women are written with this lazy, faux toughness that doesn't feel natural or earned at all. They're just strong because that's how the writers wanted them to be, but nothing in their story or character makes me feel it. It feels like someone had a mission to make strong females, and focused more on trying to make that happen instead of building a good character.

The women are taking a bigger beating because the main character is a woman, and they hold all the postions of power on the good guys side. But the men aren't well written either.

I really don't care about KK, and I didnt even know who she was until AFTER I saw this movie and read this thread. Same with RJ. But it's hard to ignore her comments about feminism after watching the end of result.

Long story short, females are not the problem. Poor writing of the female characters is the problem.
I have no problem with keeping an open mind to different views, but youre arguing as if you're arguing with the most extreme of the extreme haters that get sensitive at everything. Plenty of well reasoned arguments have been made in this thread, and in that video, but you seem to be just focusing on the extremes and side points.

 

[minute bull]

And the women are written with this lazy, faux toughness that doesn't feel natural or earned at all. They're just strong because that's how the writers wanted them to be, but nothing in their story or character makes me feel it. It feels like someone had a mission to make strong females, and focused more on trying to make that happen instead of building a good character.

Yeah I don't get that but this is the closest anyone has come to explaining what earn means to a story. I don't know what it takes to make an audience feel it, because I felt "it." I didn't get the idea they were unnecessarily strong or right, so much as prominent and, if anything, flawed.

I mean is it like needing to see Rocky chase a chicken before he nearly beats Apollo? Does it mean someone needs to be humbled during the course of the story? There are a number of directions such a statement can go. For me there is a gap between a character earning a perception and the nebulous "just write a good character" that I can't quite jump.

 

[GtehMVP]

One MMA Fan: I'm going to waste 30 min of my day to write this post that won't do shit cause no one on sherdog will ever change their stance on anything cause God forbid.

- first he starts with a diss at KK.. for crying out loud she just said she has strong females in the SW films.. that's it. So let's burn her at the stake guys cause a woman in charge had the nerves to say something regarding her position, her movies, her gender, her opinion.. you guys have any idea how male driven the world of Hollywood is ? do you even realize what a big deal is to be a woman on top of the food chain, a big boss head of a studio that is moving around billions of dollars.. on wow she wore a t-shirt made by Nike for their shoe brand and some high school girls got her one and she wore it to their event "that bitch took our FORCE and feminized it!!"
Then on stage she had the nerve to point out to her female lead and other actors that happen to be female just like her "oh my this is unacceptable it tainted my SW experience" do you people even hear yourselves and what the heck materials you are promoting ?

If the women in the new trilogy were actually well written characters, I don't think anyone outside the obvious misogynist would have an issue with it. I don't know any SW fan who doesn't love Ahsoka. I find your tone a little weird in this too, like i'm attacking your sister or something, what the hell lol. I'm critiquing fictional characters and the virtue signaling morons, male and female, who shoved them on a screen, watering down a franchise I love. If women have it difficult in Hollywood, KK and Rian didn't do them any favours in TLJ.

- lies about quality of the film.. terrible film based on what ? on the tomato meter that is mostly for the NA audiences.. oh wow so let's take the only big negative stat we have and let's just focus on that let's ignore IMDB that has more then double the votes, let's ignore the box office number of the movie that was NR 1 Worldwide in 2017.. let's ignore we are still talking about it .. when we have other big movies we never mention again 2 months after we saw it. But hey "WE" didn't like it so let's assume everyone has our stance on it.

It's a terrible film based on terrible writing, weirdly placed jokes, poor pacing, and underdeveloped characters. There are a number of elements that make TLJ a terrible film. THis movie is lucky it had the SW name attached to it. Sure it did well, but it's still $700 billion below TFA. Star Wars is also a beloved IP, who wants to see something they love get doused in hot garbage?

- check out this crazy statement by JJ (duh cause most that watch my video won't ever read the full articles well guess what I did.. I read it all at the time they came out) JJ was asked about the SPECIFIC of people targeting the use of female lead(s) and female actors as center pieces of the movie/stories.. oh so now with knowing that then his response was totally validated and in the right in fact maybe he could have been a little more fierce to this snowflakes ? but hey I guess he knows more PR then me look at how even this tame responses are being used out of context. You goofs out there offended by JJ words they weren't meant for you even if you disliked the movies, they were meant for the people that took shots at the movies BECAUSE they are too female heavy for their tastes, for those Mary Sue parrots out there.. really you hitched your wagon to this guy huh ?

I read the indiewire article too, there's nothing clear about who exactly he's responding to. They conflate some alt right group and JJ's response. That why it's wise to shut your mouth about your consumers, because disingenuous sites like Indiewire will stitch their own narrative. As for "Mary Sue" It wouldn't matter if Max Landis or Adolph Hitler coined it for her, Rey is a Mary Sue. You don't have to like it lol

- they are promoting and pushing the fact they have a female lead.. what's so wrong about it ? they are pushing forward with what they have this time it's a female in Rey next movies maybe it will be a male Jedi who knows.. they aren't saying they are the only ones doing this NO ONE ever said that this is the video maker twisting things to make his little hater video. I wonder did he do a video for Wonder Woman too ? I seem to recognize some of the names around this parts in that topic when James Cameron was taking shots at WW for promoting themselves as this big movie directed by a female and lead by a female.. so no problem there but we have issues here huh. If SW has those toys in the sandbox no shit they will try and promote and push that angle is that really that surprising or that annoying ?

There's nothing wrong with a female lead, or wanting to have a female centric cast, who's saying that? When you virtue signal for strong women then write them as hollow characters, it's not a good look. Rian Johnson taking potshots at viewers, and much of the media calling legit criticism misogynistic, doesn't help either.

Wonder Woman was a good/fun movie, why should it get the same treatment as TLJ?

- takes a shot at Rey.. yes a mortally wounded, unbalanced, not really intent on killing her.. Kylo lost the fight.. can we get over this by now.. do we need to explain that situation all over again even know this goof didn't understand that scene and he probably never will. He shows Rey having a scuffle with Luke.. he things Luke was serious in that fight huh ? that wasn't the point yet again. (PS: Snoke toyed with her quite easily.. and be sure Vader would have won a duel with her at that point too but let's put that in the video cause why not, let's compare apples to oranges cause he has a video to make)

We really don't need to go into it. It's already well established that Rey is an awful character with virtually no arc. She's boring and unrelatable. Perhaps JJ had plans to explain why she can jedi mind trick without ever hearing about the skill, but thanks to Rian she's just awesome because...and force balance, or something.

- bad ass montage of ladies in film.. "I clapped, I know them all".. but what's the point again ? did anyone said SW has the embargo on female characters wtf ? why is this even there.

- he has half the clip talking about female leads in other movie, I guess cool.. but again wtf is his point and why did he put this into a SW video ? if he trying to make a connection to JJ comments ? that were directed on those specific crowds of haters that downloaded that 'no female SW movie cut' or at KK promoting her own female lead and actors ? is this it ? or he just went with some familiar and loved films and made a low hanging fruit of a connection to show that other films cool and new SW is bad... guess it worked... did @GtehMVP @KnightTemplar @SmilinDesperado @moreorless87 did you guys clapped ?

He's clearly making a connection to JJ's statements and referencing the "craze" out in the wild regarding the strong women in the new trilogy. I thought it was an excellent montage showing actually well written female characters, as opposed to what TLJ gave us. Let's face it, everyone in TLJ is a cartoon buffoon. JJ's comments about Leia was asinine too.

- abilities they didn't earn ? the innate force grab.. that's his issue... it's fantasy the force awakened in her by now and this seem like basic trick by now..or what the fleet leader not explaining her game-plan to the dude that was just punished for not taking orders and demoted.. dudes in any army he wouldn't even be on the bridge to ask for the plan he would have been incarcerated by now.

It seems pretty clear he's including all the things she can do without merit; fix/fly the Falcon so well, Mind trick, trip up Luke, , beat Kylo, lift tons of boulders, defeat multiple Praetorian guards, have to save Kylo etc... hence the Mary Sue moniker.

Poe actually saved the fleet from annihilation, Leia should be demoted, or at least thanking him lol. but you're right, if this was a proper military vessel, Poe should prob be put in the brig. The whole thing with the turtle bombing crew, the demotion, Holdo's existence, all fucking stupid lol

- so now everyone needs to be like Luke we need to fallow that mold for EVER or else sir Robot Head and other goofs will take issues.. in this new trilogy with this new character things are different.. imagine that the horror.

Who said she has to be like luke? People defending the Mary Sue thing are saying she's just like Luke, which she's not, because he had an arc, a mold most films character centric should adopt

- if the video maker would have left the scene go on with Rey he would have noticed the lack of control she displayed by "self training OMG" she almost killed a nun caretaker.
He has a problem with two of the most powerful and young force users defeating some bad guys extras ? okay.. geez I hope he doesn't watch a lot of action movies or he will be disappointed.

Yeah, like I said, this was prob the only thing I could see being an issue in his piece.

- he liked Ep 7 after he first saw it.. but he needed extra time and extra opinions to change his mind ? or wait did the second movie changed his mind on the first who freaking knows with this strange individual doing his little hate video cause you know what hate and conflict sells better just look at his channel less then 10k subs and he did a hate video with almost half a million views seems to be working I wonder how many like him "I liked EP 7 but I did this hate video cause this good for business" do you people even listen to the words spoken or screw it ramble ramble female leads ramble ramble SW bad ramble ramble oh ALIENS and TERMINATOR 2 ramble ramble screw KK and JJ.

Hating on TLJ has been good business for many people, especially when you have solid facts to back it up.

- this great actor was a gimmick from the start.. armor looks cool, sells toys, looks good in a poster, sells a book, sells a comic.. but hey we need to bitch about stuff cause we dislike the movie right ? "where is my Snoke backstory, where is my Phasma screen-time" this are keeping you up huh ? we legit are in nitpicks territory right now.. wait till you see a Snoke movie down the line.. buy your tickets and show up please remember you bitched on sherdog about it for months you wanted your Snoke backstory god damn it.

Phasma was such wasted don't you think? I love her in GOT, and she looks so cool in this.. I was expecting big things from her considering the build up.

I think we all wanted some Snoke backstory. Rian's "gotcha" here was lame. His subversions felt like a Family Guy parody of a parody.

- no one has a problem with you not liking a character.. absolutely no one, not JJ, not KK.. the heck is wrong with this circle jerk of a video.. the comments were directed on the people DISLIKING it because of the gender of the characters, you will never see them trashing anyone for not agreeing with their vision if it's a fair criticism but to point our silliness like Mary Sue, or force if female picture or the Rose character because she is ugly and female.. is the no go and the direction of those intended comments.

I don't know man, I see a lot of conflating legit criticism with sexism/misogyny, or Russian bots

- personal attacks at Loan Tran (Rose).. to end it all and prove he indeed is right in the mention groups that JJ was talking about.. by this point I had more then enough with this man and was glad to be at the end of his low quality video full of BS like I stated earlier but here I expanded on all of it.. and I think it took me more then half an hour and I'm so done with this silly video and silly posts.

And here goes nothing.. waste of time for both me and you. I'm so done with this it's not even funny.

I don't feel I wasted my time, or I wouldn't have responded to your mini novel. It was fun poking holes in your arguments.

Fuck this made me laugh!

 

[SmilinDesperado]

Yeah I don't get that but this is the closest anyone has come to explaining what earn means to a story. I don't know what it takes to make an audience feel it, because I felt "it." I didn't get the idea they were unnecessarily strong or right, so much as prominent and, if anything, flawed.

I mean is it like needing to see Rocky chase a chicken before he nearly beats Apollo? Does it mean someone needs to be humbled during the course of the story? There are a number of directions such a statement can go. For me there is a gap between a character earning a perception and the nebulous "just write a good character" that I can't quite jump.

Admittedly, "earning it" isn't always easily explained.
But, let's use your Rocky example. I don't need to see him chase the chicken. I know that he is a boxer. On that basis alone, I can expect him to be a tough guy. The thing about Rocky is is that he isn't actually the best fighter, or the most technical, or the strongest. He just has a shit ton of heart, and never gives up. And the movie shows that in his fights, and in his personal relationships.
He has a close fight where he LOSES to the champion, but he comes back stronger as the movie series goes on.
He doesn't start the movie as a school teacher with 0 boxing experience and then beats Apollo Creed by KO in the 2nd round by the end of the movie.

With Rey, she starts off as this nobody desert girl, and without any training, she is besting the master of the dark side, she is telling Han Solo how to fly his own ship. The struggle, the why this character is doing what they are doing, that IS the character, and I don't see any of that with Rey.
We are coming in on the 3rd movie, and I don't really know what Rey is about.

Honestly, we could just take out the "feminist" and "SJW" labels out of this whole argument if that's what's holding back this discussion.
What it comes down to me is that these characters are just poorly written. Very shallow. And have no real strong goals, motivations, or substance.

It's not just the women, EVERYONE is pretty shallow. Finn is criminally underutilized. He could have been so much more. Same thing with Poe. They did alright with Kylo, but his direction is still quite muddled, and he isnt a fleshed out character
Again, we're coming in on the 3rd movie, and I don't really feel like i know much about any of these people.

 

[Clippy]

Admittedly, "earning it" isn't always easily explained.
But, let's use your Rocky example. I don't need to see him chase the chicken. I know that he is a boxer. On that basis alone, I can expect him to be a tough guy. The thing about Rocky is is that he isn't actually the best fighter, or the most technical, or the strongest. He just has a shit ton of heart, and never gives up. And the movie shows that in his fights, and in his personal relationships.
He has a close fight where he LOSES to the champion, but he comes back stronger as the movie series goes on.
He doesn't start the movie as a school teacher with 0 boxing experience and then beat Apollo Creed by KO in the 2nd round by the end of the movie.

With Rey, she starts off as this nobody desert girl, and without any training, she is besting the master of the dark side, she is telling Han Solo how to fly his own ship. The struggle, the why this character is doing what they are doing, that IS the character, and I don't see any of that with Rey.
We are coming in on the 3rd movie, and I don't really know what Rey is about.

Honestly, we could just take out the "feminist" and "SJW" labels out of this whole argument if that's what's holding back this discussion.
What it comes down to me is that these characters are just poorly written. Very shallow. And have no real strong goals, motivations, or substance.

It's not just the women, EVERYONE is pretty shallow. Finn is criminally underutilized. He could have been so much more. Same thing with Poe. They did alright with Kylo, but his direction is still quite muddled, and he isnt a fleshed out character
Again, we're coming in on the 3rd movie, and I don't really feel like i know much about any of these people.

So fuckin on point

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Almost ALL of the new Star Wars characters are terribly written.

I disagree. I thought TFA waz great & I hadn't read critics or social media until joining here well over a year after watching it. I'm blown away by this point of view & don't get it at all. Then TLJ gets all the grief it's gotten... I still don't get it.

I do recognize that if someone doesn't vibe with Rey... that they aren't going to like the movies. After TLJ convo's began & this feminist pov came up I watched TLJ again (I think it waz my 3rd viewing or so) & people's hater comments kept popping into my head. I don't get that pov at all, but I do understand that the movies will not be enjoyed if someone is thinking that stuff about Rey instead of just accepting her & enjoying the movie. Personally, I love her.

The point the video was making by listing all those other female characters was to show that the haters of TLJ have NO problem with strong female leads. Those characters were NATURALLY strong.

As far as that twisted video... there most certainly are people disliking Rey just because she's a strong woman lead. I've heard that pov on here straight up. They made no mystery about it & came right out & said it. Though I don't recall who. That was the people JJ's comment was aimed at... not "all people who didn't like it."

The video doesn't acknowledge that though it tries to make the point that JJ is talking to everyone. It goes on & on siting other strong female leads as if JJ's comment was aimed at everyone who didn't like it. The video also pretends that those others didn't have some nazi's ragging on them about being strong females. I would be very surprised if that were not true, (though Sarah Conor waz way before this dark social media trend kicked in.) Feminism haters are going to run the board.

It's just like rednecks who are prejudice against black people... it doesn't make any difference how a black person carries themselves or what the black person does, the Redneck will be throwing out the N word as soon as they're out of earshot... & getting a little chuckle from their buddies who also get a feel good moment from demeaning an entire race. It raises them up. Living in Georgia, USA for 6 years I saw this a surprising amount. I've always thought that was the strangest thing... especially after acting super cool to them to their face.

Anti-femists have the same agenda. It makes them feel superior & important when they point out other people who are beneath them... so no way they aren't also ragging other women. It's just blown up more with Star Wars because it's a much bigger stage & so they continue on & on endlessly getting their Nazi superiority fix on, while being met with other people who "just didn't like the characters." However, even though there are different agendas & reasons for not liking TLJ, they still fuel each other. It's a reality. Those are the people JJ's comments were aimed at & that hater vid dude just twisted it.

 

[minute bull]

With Rey, she starts off as this nobody desert girl, and without any training, she is besting the master of the dark side, she is telling Han Solo how to fly his own ship. The struggle, the why this character is doing what they are doing, that IS the character, and I don't see any of that with Rey.

What's interesting is that these are TFA problems, but generally speaking TFA is forgiven because it looks good and has neat action pieces. TLJ suffers the sins of TFA, despite putting the necessary roadblocks to prevent her from becoming a Mary Sue and also providing good looking scenes. I feel like some of that is collateral damage from what is regarded as poor treatment of Luke, but I'm trying to stay on topic.

It's a pity so many people have their minds made up to be disgusted/disappointed/dismissive and generally dissed in dis discussion.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

I disagree. I thought TFA waz great & I hadn't read critics or social media until joining here well over a year after watching it. I'm blown away by this point of view & don't get it at all. Then TLJ gets all the grief it's gotten... I still don't get it.

I do recognize that if someone doesn't vibe with Rey... that they aren't going to like the movies. After TLJ convo's began & this feminist pov came up I watched TLJ again (I think it waz my 3rd viewing or so) & people's hater comments kept popping into my head. I don't get that pov at all, but I do understand that the movies will not be enjoyed if someone is thinking that stuff about Rey instead of just accepting her & enjoying the movie. Personally, I love her.



As far as that twisted video... there most certainly are people disliking Rey just because she's a strong woman lead. I've heard that pov on here straight up. They made no mystery about it & came right out & said it. Though I don't recall who. That was the people JJ's comment was aimed at... not "all people who didn't like it."

The video doesn't acknowledge that though it tries to make the point that JJ is talking to everyone. It goes on & on siting other strong female leads as if JJ's comment was aimed at everyone who didn't like it. The video also pretends that those others didn't have some nazi's ragging on them about being strong females. I would be very surprised if that were not true, (though Sarah Conor waz way before this dark social media treand kicked in.) Feminism haters are going to run the board.

It's just like rednecks who are prejudice against black people... it doesn't make any difference how a black person carries themselves or what the black person does, the Redneck will be throwing out the N word as soon as they're out of earshot... & getting a little chuckle from their buddies who also get a feel good moment from demeaning an entire race. It raises them up. Living in Georgia, USA for 6 years I saw this a surprising amount. I've always thought that was the strangest thing... especially after acting super cool to them to their face.

Anti-femists have the same agenda. It makes them feel superior & important when they point out other people who are beneath them... so no way they aren't also ragging other women. It's just blown up more with Star Wars because it's a much bigger stage & so they continue on & on endlessly getting their Nazi superiority fix on while being met with other people who "just didn't like the characters." However, even though there are different agendas & reasons for not liking TLJ, they still fuel each other. It's a reality. Those are the people JJ's comments were aimed at & that hater vid dude just twisted it.

I didn't hate TFA. I thought it was a hell of a lot better than TLJ. I thought it was fine as an introduction to the new SW world, and I was looking forward to learn more about the characters and the world. I don't feel like I got much more in terms of character development, or even world development in TLJ. All the things set up in TFA didn't go anywhere in TLJ. (and No, it is not that things didn't go where I wanted them to go. I didn't know where I wanted them to go. I had no real thoughts on that. But the direction they went was just completelly lackluster and pointless)

As you said, as Rey is the main character, not liking her, is going to make one not like a lot of the movie. I don't even hate Rey. I just have no feelings about her. She is just a wasted, undeveloped character. Much like most of the other characters. I think Finn and Poe could be great characters, but the direction the movie chose to go with them was just incredibly lame. Same with Captain Phasma, Snoke, Luke, Rose, and Holdo. All of those characters could have had much deeper stories.

And I'm not saying that there aren't people that hated Rey because she was a woman. People have said it on the internet, and in this thread. But that's not what that video was saying. And that's not what I, and some of the guys still talking about this movie right now feel.
There are also people putting all haters in the misogynist category, when that isn't the case.
As I said in a previous post, we can completely take out the feminism part of the argument, and simplify it: my opinion is just that the characters in TLJ are poorly written, undeveloped, and unfocused.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

What's interesting is that these are TFA problems, but generally speaking TFA is forgiven because it looks good and has neat action pieces. TLJ suffers the sins of TFA, despite putting the necessary roadblocks to prevent her from becoming a Mary Sue and also providing good looking scenes. I feel like some of that is collateral damage from what is regarded as poor treatment of Luke, but I'm trying to stay on topic.

It's a pity so many people have their minds made up to be disgusted/disappointed/dismissive and generally dissed in dis discussion.

I hear this argument a lot, but I just don't agree.
Let's go with what you're saying, and say that TFA gave TLJ a bad set up--well, what was stopping TLJ from taking the series where it wanted to go? How was TFA hindering TLJ?

I thought TFA did TLJ a favor by leaving it open. There were a TON of open paths they could have went with that would have been a lot more interesting than what we got. Instead, kill Luke and the Jedi, kill Snoke and the Sith/dark side, Rey has no family or origin, Poe does nothing, the rebels spend the whole movie in a slow speed chase, Capt Phasma dies again, Finn is bunkered down with a new boring character in Rose and they go on a pointless field trip. I mean, really? That was the BEST story they could tell? There is a million things they could have done, and they chose the most boring, nothing path imaginable.

 

[Clippy]

I hear this argument a lot, but I just don't agree.
Let's go with what you're saying, and say that TFA gave TLJ a bad set up--well, what was stopping TLJ from taking the series where it wanted to go? How was TFA hindering TLJ?

I thought TFA did TLJ a favor by leaving it open. There were a TON of open paths they could have went with that would have been a lot more interesting than what we got. Instead, kill Luke and the Jedi, kill Snoke and the Sith/dark side, Rey has no family or origin, Poe does nothing, the rebels spend the whole movie in a slow speed chase, Capt Phasma dies again, Finn is bunkered down with a new boring character in Rose and they go on a pointless field trip. I mean, really? That was the BEST story they could tell? There is a million things they could have done, and they chose the most boring, nothing path imaginable.

TFA left lots of doors open and so much to work with indeed

TLJ shut every fucking door and left nothing to care about for the 9th movie

It failed not only self but the future of the franchise

If the Star Wars series was a long road it started out all paved and nice and now there's a huge washout and people aren't going to bother to cross - a few swam to the Solo movie and that's it

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Admittedly, "earning it" isn't always easily explained.
But, let's use your Rocky example. I don't need to see him chase the chicken. I know that he is a boxer. On that basis alone, I can expect him to be a tough guy. The thing about Rocky is is that he isn't actually the best fighter, or the most technical, or the strongest. He just has a shit ton of heart, and never gives up. And the movie shows that in his fights, and in his personal relationships.
He has a close fight where he LOSES to the champion, but he comes back stronger as the movie series goes on.
He doesn't start the movie as a school teacher with 0 boxing experience and then beats Apollo Creed by KO in the 2nd round by the end of the movie.

With Rey, she starts off as this nobody desert girl, and without any training, she is besting the master of the dark side, she is telling Han Solo how to fly his own ship.

Great examples here but they actually support the opposite point of view that you are thinking they support. It most certainly was shown that Rey was an elite fighter. She took out 2 of Plutt's thugs with her staff & hit Finn so hard his feet literally left the ground up 2 or 3 feet or so as he crashed down on his back. Canon goes further to show that she was an elite staff fighter & that people on Jakku didn't f*ck with her. That is however implied in the movie so don't give me this MOP sh*t. (movie only people)

Regarding knowing about the Falcon... She was a fooking parts scavenger for a living. Reckon she had to learn a thing or 2 about ships along the way? That's obvious in the movie, but Canon goes further to show that the ship she lived in had an active computer that had schematics about every imperial ship & some resistance ships as well. She also learned droid language & Wookiee... & it had a flight simulator that she mastered on the highest levels. Add in dormant Jedi skills such as young Ani presented by being able to build his own pod racer & being the only human who could do the race & you can understand how she was such a good study.

She was abandoned & alone for a decade & had to survive. Reckon she had a reason to have the eye of the tiger? She most certainly does... & all of her abilities came from being super dedicated to study & practice & just surviving. if she didn't survive, she died, and every day could easily be her last. Now switch gears to upper middle class silver spoon Kylo who's very own talking lets you know he's spoiled & bored & doesn't appreciate anything... & you can see how the force bends to the will of this new eye of the tiger force user instead of the bored but trained silver spoon upper middle class Kylo who's mortally wounded while trying to call Luke's light saber vs Rey.

So you can accept Rocky doing a few underground fights & then giving the champ the fight of his life, but you can't accept Rey who was a proven elite staff fighter being able to transfer that ability to the sword & best a mortally wounded Kylo who didn't want to beat her anyway. he wanted to recruit her. To me your point of view actually supports the fact that Rey could do that.

As far as self training... she's been doing it all her life. Not too surprising she could switch from elite staff fighting to sword quickly. Especially with all those midichlorianz bubbling up in her.

It's not just the women, EVERYONE is pretty shallow. Finn is criminally underutilized. He could have been so much more. Same thing with Poe. They did alright with Kylo, but his direction is still quite muddled, and he isnt a fleshed out character
Again, we're coming in on the 3rd movie, and I don't really feel like i know much about any of these people.

I think you're just more happy complaining about this than actually thinking about it. Finn is not underutilized... & you know his entire life story. You got to see the moments that made him question his life's ambition about wanting to be a storm trooper. During that homicide of an entire village & Finn's reaction the audience gets a very clear view of why the First Order is the bad guys. Finn's journey is imo a very well written account of this. The Canto Bight scene was more important than the resistance givez it credit for because it shows Finn getting into the glitz & glamour of it all while Rose points out the horrible truth beneath the surface. Finn's journey is literally the trilogy's analogy to explain who the bad guys are. I think it is very well done & very well written.

It's obvious who the movie wants the audience to relate to as the bad guys but it's through Finn's character arc that we are shown for sure. There's actually quite a bit of Canon content explaining how most people in the galaxy don't care who leads them, as long as their war will stop causing so much chaos. One planet even got liberated from the empire shortly after Ep. 6, but the new Republic didn't have the resources to police them, & pirates moved in. That planet sent an ambassador to the New Republic to explain that the Empire was cruel but at least they kept the planet's economy sound whereas now they're struggling. The majority of the galaxy don't even believe in Jedi & Sith as most have never seen them & think they're just myth or propaganda. So they don't know who the good guys are & who the bad guys are. We do though... thanx to Finn's arc.

& lol if you don't feel like you know Kylo well enough. I'll give you a bit on Poe... but just like your Rocky example... you don't need to know Rocky's whole back story to know he's a boxer... just like you don't need to know Poe's entire back story to know he's an elite fighter pilot.

there's actually some great Canon back story that showed Poe grew up with a force tree in his back yard. It was a living branch from the force tree in the center yard of the jedi temple on Coroscant that the Empire burned down. They did however save 2 branches & kept them alive for research purposes, but Luke & Poe's mom busted in & got them. Luke only needed one so he gave the other to Poe's mom. Poe grew up climbing all around the force tree & this couldn't be bad for his pilot reflexes. I alwayz thought that waz a cool story.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

TLJ shut every fucking door and left nothing to care about for the 9th movie For those with limited foresight.

Fixed ^

 

[Clippy]

Great examples here but they actually support the opposite point of view that you are thinking they support. It most certainly was shown that Rey was an elite fighter. She took out 2 of Plutt's thugs with her staff & hit Finn so hard his feet literally left the ground up 2 or 3 feet or so as he crashed down on his back. Canon goes further to show that she was an elite staff fighter & that people on Jakku didn't f*ck with her. That is however implied in the movie so don't give me this MOP sh*t. (movie only people)

Regarding knowing about the Falcon... She was a fooking parts scavenger for a living. Reckon she had to learn a thing or 2 about ships along the way? That's obvious in the movie, but Canon goes further to show that the ship she lived in had an active computer that had schematics about every imperial ship & some resistance ships as well. She also learned droid language & Wookiee... & it had a flight simulator that she mastered on the highest levels. Add in dormant Jedi skills such as young Ani presented by being able to build his own pod racer & being the only human who could do the race & you can understand how she was such a good study.

She was abandoned & alone for a decade & had to survive. Reckon she had a reason to have the eye of the tiger? She most certainly does... & all of her abilities came from being super dedicated to study & practice & just surviving. if she didn't survive, she died, and every day could easily be her last. Now switch gears to upper middle class silver spoon Kylo who's very own talking lets you know he's spoiled & bored & doesn't appreciate anything... & you can see how the force bends to the will of this new eye of the tiger force user instead of the bored but trained silver spoon upper middle class Kylo who's mortally wounded while trying to call Luke's light saber vs Rey.

So you can accept Rocky doing a few underground fights & then giving the champ the fight of his life, but you can't accept Rey who was a proven elite staff fighter being able to transfer that ability to the sword & best a mortally wounded Kylo who didn't want to beat her anyway. he wanted to recruit her. To me your point of view actually supports the fact that Rey could do that.

As far as self training... she's been doing it all her life. Not too surprising she could switch from elite staff fighting to sword quickly. Especially with all those midichlorianz bubbling up in her.



I think you're just more happy complaining about this than actually thinking about it. Finn is not underutilized... & you know his entire life story. You got to see the moments that made him question his life's ambition about wanting to be a storm trooper. During that homicide of an entire village & Finn's reaction the audience gets a very clear view of why the First Order is the bad guys. Finn's journey is imo a very well written account of this. The Canto Bight scene was more important than the resistance givez it credit for because it shows Finn getting into the glitz & glamour of it all while Rose points out the horrible truth beneath the surface. Finn's journey is literally the trilogy's analogy to explain who the bad guys are. I think it is very well done & very well written.

It's obvious who the movie wants the audience to relate to as the bad guys but it's through Finn's character arc that we are shown for sure. There's actually quite a bit of Canon content explaining how most people in the galaxy don't care who leads them, as long as their war will stop causing so much chaos. One planet even got liberated from the empire shortly after Ep. 6, but the new Republic didn't have the resources to police them, & pirates moved in. That planet sent an ambassador to the New Republic to explain that the Empire was cruel but at least they kept the planet's economy sound whereas now they're struggling. The majority of the galaxy don't even believe in Jedi & Sith as most have never seen them & think they're just myth or propaganda. So they don't know who the good guys are & who the bad guys are. We do though... thanx to Finn's arc.

& lol if you don't feel like you know Kylo well enough. I'll give you a bit on Poe... but just like your Rocky example... you don't need to know Rocky's whole back story to know he's a boxer... just like you don't need to know Poe's entire back story to know he's an elite fighter pilot.

there's actually some great Canon back story that showed Poe grew up with a force tree in his back yard. It was a living branch from the force tree in the center yard of the jedi temple on Coroscant the Empire burned down. They did however save 2 branches & kept them alive for research purposes, but Luke & Poe's mom busted in & got them. Luke only needed one so he gave the other to Poe's mom. Poe grew up climbing all around the force tree & this couldn't be bad for his pilot reflexes. I alwayz thought that waz a cool story.

STOP using things that are explained outside of the movies like in books

They don't fix the movie

The movie has to stand on it's own

We been through this