STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

If you have seen STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI, how would you rate it?


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I've mostly been defending this film, but I do have one question:

Can we give Kylo his fucking mask back? Why did he destroy the mask?

That mask was awesome.
 
I've mostly been defending this film, but I do have one question:

Can we give Kylo his fucking mask back? Why did he destroy the mask?

That mask was awesome.

He was doing the same thing to JJ Abrams' lore, imagery and creations that he was to those of George Lucas.

He shut down or subverted pretty much every mystery JJ Abrams raised in the first film. To show that he could.

People complained that he shouldn't have taken off the mask in Episode 7? Ha ha, fuck you, now he never gets to put it back on.
 
He was doing the same thing to JJ Abrams' lore, imagery and creations that he was to those of George Lucas.

He shut down or subverted pretty much every mystery JJ Abrams raised in the first film. To show that he could.

People complained that he shouldn't have taken off the mask in Episode 7? Ha ha, fuck you, now he never gets to put it back on.

With JJ coming back in for ep IX, I'm really hoping that he gives Kylo back his mask. Or maybe instead he has Kylo fashion for himself a new, even more awesome mask, and spin it as destroying the old mask is destroying the old Kylo Ren. The new mask symbolizes Kylo in all his might.

I don't think he needs to wear it all the time, but it's nice to have in key moments.
 
With JJ coming back in for ep IX, I'm really hoping that he gives Kylo back his mask. Or maybe instead he has Kylo fashion for himself a new, even more awesome mask, and spin it as destroying the old mask is destroying the old Kylo Ren. The new mask symbolizes Kylo in all his might.

I don't think he needs to wear it all the time, but it's nice to have in key moments.

JJ has a lot of course correcting to do. Unfortunately, Johnson may have left him in a position where he thinks the best option is for Kylo to make a full-on Vader mask. Johnson was so hell bent on nuking past Star Wars lore, that JJ may actually have to go further back into the past to find something Johnson didn't invalidate.

Like I said, he has his work cut out for him, and if people didn't like what he came up with for Episode 7 with no constraints, let's see how they like it when he has to write with both hands behind his back.

Episode 9 is a salvage operation.
 
JJ has a lot of course correcting to do. Unfortunately, Johnson may have left him in a position where he thinks the best option is for Kylo to make a full-on Vader mask. Johnson was so hell bent on nuking past Star Wars lore, that JJ may actually have to go further back into the past to find something Johnson didn't invalidate.

Like I said, he has his work cut out for him, and if people didn't like what he came up for Episode 7 with no constraints, let's see how they like it when he has to write with both hands behind his back.

I definitely veto a Vader mask. Kylo is his own person, his own character. Let him be that.

As for JJ, I'm interested in seeing what he comes up with, but here's the problem:

I think The Force Awakens is THE dullest fucking movie in the whole franchise. THE WHOLE FRANCHISE.

I have it at the very bottom. It's so dull that, even though I just rewatched it a week ago, I can't really tell you anything about it. That's how much of a nothing movie it is to me.

So I'm like. . . This guy's back in the saddle again?
 
I definitely veto a Vader mask. Kylo is his own person, his own character. Let him be that.

As for JJ, I'm interested in seeing what he comes up with, but here's the problem:

I think The Force Awakens is THE dullest fucking movie in the whole franchise. THE WHOLE FRANCHISE.

I have it at the very bottom. It's so dull that, even though I just rewatched it a week ago, I can't really tell you anything about it. That's how much of a nothing movie it is to me.

So I'm like. . . This guy's back in the saddle again?

I'm not terribly optimistic. Whatever was in the back of his mind for the rest of the trilogy, not much of it is still standing. He's pretty much starting from scratch again, only this time in Rian Johnson's world, not George Lucas' world.
 
Even Daisy doesn't sound totally satisfied with VIII...



That's interesting but if you watch the whole thing it sounds like she's saying it's her performance she's not totally satisfied with.

She even says the rest of the movie is wonderful, but she has a hard time watching herself on screen.
 
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These things have been discussed a bunch but it still gets on my nerves to read this.

Would Luke from return of the Jedi have ran away to live alone on a rock for 30 years?

Who would be the same after 30 years of solitude? Who is the same as an old man? People can change over 30 years, especially if they'e living like a hermit. Only a little bitch would run away and live in isolation for 30 years.

He had to work with that, he walked into a dumb script. Yoda was a little weirdo cranky old goofy bastard when Luke found him too.


How much training did Luke have? He trained with Yoda for... I dunno, couldn't have possibly been more than a couple months? Then defeated Darth Vader. I never saw him getting light saber lessons. He just runs around with a Yoda backpack and tries and fails to get an xwing from a swamp

Lol at him deliberately doing harm to star wars.. by making an original fucking movie!?



This is a movie about people with super powers, laser swords, aliens, space travel.. It's a fantasy, just enjoy it and don't try and nitpick things you find unrealistic

Do we know how long he was on the island? Because Kylo is like 29 years old. He didnt look that young when he thought Luke was trying to kill him.
 
Your link doesn't seem to have pointed to where you intended. It just took me to the top of this page. If you give me the post number, then I can look it up.

As for disrespecting the lore, I can only think of four things worth potentially getting upset about:

1. The characterization of Luke

2. Democratization of the Force, rather than focusing on the Skywalker "chosen one" theme.

3. New Force abilities

4. Yoda essentially burning down the Jedi legacy

My response to these four issues are thus:

1. Lucas already established the precarious nature of the Jedi in earlier films, how they're constantly walking the balance beam between the light and the dark, between virtue and corruption. They are not meant to be avatars of moral perfection.

2. Skywalkers aren't the only ones who get to be Jedi and never have. There are all kinds of different Jedi in the prequels. A whole Jedi army rushes onto the battlefield in AOTC. I'll grant that this nullifies the idea of of the chosen one who will come to balance the Force. But with Luke handing things off to Rey, he is returning things to the pre-Skywalker state. I don't have a problem with that, because it seems to me, it's either do that or fulfill the prophecy, balance the Force, and boom, Star Wars is over. I any case, the Skywalker blood actually still lives within Kylo.

3. This one's easy. We talked about it before. New Force adepts find new ways to use it through continued practice and experience.

4. I could see fans getting pissed about this. It made me slightly uneasy as well. But Rey did save the sacred Jedi texts, and I think Yoda's message was essentially: "Don't mistake the artifice of the Jedi religion for what it's really all about. Don't miss the forest for the trees."

Your thoughts?

I'd say there are issues beyond this in terms of the general setting although a lot of that feeds back to TFA and is only now becoming more obvious. Basically sweeping aside all of the achievement of the original films in a very blunt manner that didn't in many peoples eyes treat it with respect and creating a setting that feels vastly smaller in its place.

A lot of the defences of the film to me feel rather akin to the defences of the Matrix sequels, talking about what it attempts to achieve when actually its the execution that those who are critical of it have a problem with(even if they express it in simpler fashions). In Luke's case is that people view the character are simply being undermined too much in being generally unsympathetic and of course having a lot of silly needless humour around him. To me its just done in too simplistic a fashion, basically "take away his wisdom so we can have our own climax when he regains it" that reminds me a lot of Han in TFA, quality writing would have created a character who'd suffered setbacks yet not reset in that fashion, again look to Obi Wan in the original films.

You mention the prequels and I think this film gets WAY to caught up in being a response to those films instead of being a sequel to the originals. Most of Luke's comments about the Jedi really feed back to the prequels and are fairly low hanging fruit as a result whilst looking to ignore that the originals had a good deal more wisdom attached to the Jedi,

I suspect that audiences now are far less willing to put up with that kind of thing than they were with TFA. That film came after the wildly disputed prequels and indeed no Starwars of any kind, this film on the other hand comes after a couple of Starwars film, one of which does show a lot of respect to the originals and brings back the main hero from those films.
 
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JJ had 2 chances with Star Trek and he failed both times

He is going to fail Star Wars for a second time as well

I think he is a hack
 
Do we know how long he was on the island? Because Kylo is like 29 years old. He didnt look that young when he thought Luke was trying to kill him.
Well I tried to leave this debate but that's a great point.

I'll stand corrected.
 
JJ had 2 chances with Star Trek and he failed both times

He is going to fail Star Wars for a second time as well

I think he is a hack

He's basically king of the hacks for me, not without talent but so very cynical and lacking in ambition relative to the likes of Lucas(in his prime in the 70's/80's), Spielberg, Jackson, etc.

I do not get the idea that he's really taking pride in what he's producing, more than he's crossing off a checklist of easy entertainment options.
 
. . . and creating a setting that feels vastly smaller in its place.

I'll agree that TLJ feels rather small in scale. This is one thing that I like about the prequels, they feel quite large in terms of scope. You get to jump around to a lot of different worlds, encounter different kinds of characters, the themes that are being explored seem worth thinking about, etc.

But at the same time, I dunno, I guess there is room for smaller stories as well.

A lot of the defences of the film to me feel rather akin to the defences of the Matrix sequels, talking about what it attempts to achieve when actually its the execution that those who are critical of it have a problem with(even if they express it in simpler fashions).

My main defense is that when I went and saw it I fucking loved it. I felt like it was a phenomenal experience and I was entertained from minute to minute in a way that films rarely do for me.

While I was watching the film, I wasn't trying to break it down or criticize it. I was just sinking into the experience as I was treated to what was EASILY one of the very best cinematic experiences of the year for me.

In Luke's case is that people view the character are simply being undermined too much in being generally unsympathetic and of course having a lot of silly needless humour around him. To me its just done in too simplistic a fashion, basically "take away his wisdom so we can have our own climax when he regains it" that reminds me a lot of Han in TFA, quality writing would have created a character who'd suffered setbacks yet not reset in that fashion, again look to Obi Wan in the original films.

I know a lot of people are going to consider this sacrilege . . . but I kind of don't give a fuck about Luke.

I mean, that's hyperbole, but I don't really find him that interesting of a character. He starts to feel more layered in Return of the Jedi, but by then it kind of felt like too little too late. So maybe that's why I'm shrugging a bit at his . . . reimagining in The Last Jedi. That, and the fact that I feel like TLJ makes him a more complex character than he was before, which to me serves to make him more interesting in a way that he just wasn't in ANH and Empire.

Really, for me, Anakin really is where it's at. He's easily the most interesting character in the franchise.
 
JJ had 2 chances with Star Trek and he failed both times

He is going to fail Star Wars for a second time as well

I think he is a hack
I liked both those movies too.. especially into the darkness


Bottom line I buy a movie ticket to enjoy a damn movie, not be pissed off.


This year I went to see a few films.. i saw "Get Out", I love Jordan Peele it was pretty good.

My mom really wanted to see this movie about Mandy Moore and sharks.. It was not good at all

We saw some other other movie about these theives that try to rob this old deaf veteran and get fucked up (can't remember the name).

And I saw Star Wars.

There's absolutely zero debate as to what movie I enjoyed the most. I laughed, cried, had a huge smile on my face watching it alone.

Yet everyone in this thread would apparently rate these other movies higher than the Last Jedi. I don't get it.

And even the bad movies I saw this year I wouldn't rate under a 5.


Star wars- 8/10
Get out- 7/10
Mandy Moore vs sharks - 5/10
Robbers vs Veteran who fucks shit up 6/10



You'e a delusional asshole if you give the Last Jedi a 1 star vote. People worked hard on this and you know that isn't accurate
 
That's interesting but if you watch the whole thing it sounds like she's saying it's her performance she's not totally satisfied with.

She even says the rest of the movie is wonderful, but she has a hard time watching herself on screen.

It's hard to tell. It could go either way. To me, it sounds like she thought the film was meh, and also doesn't care to watch herself on screen over and over. Of course she would never out and out say the film is shit. She's gonna say it's wonderful, otherwise she'd be disrespecting all the other people involved. Although some actors have no problem being that way, I definitely don't see that in her.

In all the interviews I saw of her back when TFA dropped, I don't recall her ever mentioning being so tense or seeming so "meh" about things. She does come across as a little self conscious generally, but it just seemed dialed up for this one. I'm guessing it's because she maybe feels the exact same way Hamill does.... "WTF is this shit?!" (though he's been way more vocal).
 
I'm kind of over movie ratings.

Too many assholes vote 1 star because they see a movie rated highly and didn't agree.


They need to weed out people like this and take their votes away. People vote 1 star out of spite.
 
I'm kind of over movie ratings.

Too many assholes vote 1 star because they see a movie rated highly and didn't agree.


They need to weed out people like this and take their votes away. People vote 1 star out of spite.

Net ratings generally tend to be 5 star or 1 star a lot of the time as people either want to overplay there point or simply those with the stronger feelings are the ones who bother to give them.
 
I'm guessing it's because she maybe feels the exact same way Hamill does.... "WTF is this shit?!" (though he's been way more vocal).

Here's the thing about Hamill. . .

He says he told Rian Johnson early on, "I fundamentally disagree with every decision you've made for Luke."

Okay, asshole, so why the fuck did you make the movie? Is it just me, or does it seem like a bitch move to know ahead of time that you're unhappy with the direction the character is being taken, but then make the movie anyway, only to publicly complain about it after you've gotten paid?
 
Net ratings generally tend to be 5 star or 1 star a lot of the time as people either want to overplay there point or simply those with the stronger feelings are the ones who bother to give them.
Which is exactly why the critics score of this movie is so high. They're professionals and don't do this
 
Here's the thing about Hamill. . .

He says he told Rian Johnson early on, "I fundamentally disagree with every decision you've made for Luke."

Okay, asshole, so why the fuck did you make the movie? Is it just me, or does it seem like a bitch move to know ahead of time that you're unhappy with the direction the character is being taken, but then make the movie anyway, only to publicly complain about it after you've gotten paid?
Definitely.

Watching his interviews it's like, why didn't you just refuse to participate if you hated the idea so bad. If star wars meant as much to him as it does to these outraged fans he would have just refused. I'm sure he has more money than anyone on here without doing this film
 
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