STIPE vs. JONES (the intangibles)

I think Stipe will be to much for Jones. I don't think Jones will be as fast at HW, and Stipe has decent hand speed. The difference to me will be punching power. Jones had a hard time finishing LHW in recent fights and Stipe already has proven HW punching power. I don't think Jones can takedown the champ with any regularity, so I have to give the nod to Miocic. :cool:
 
Jesus... Will you please stop? Maybe I should change my av, because with this av, you GSP fanboys always come up from nowhere, and starts discrediting Anderson without any context....
This is a thread about Stipe&Jones, why don't you stop bullying me and actually make a reply about the topic please?
Didn’t mean to offend you good sir trying to make a joke about Silva GSP fans love affair (i root for neither btw)
 
So Francis should never get a chance to do better?


LMAO, ngannoo nuthuggery suffers major butthurt!!!

iu
 
honest question:

why would beating jones be a bigger accomplishment than beating francis?

jones = no wins at HW
just because he used to be good at LHW doesn't mean he's good at HW

francis = 4 fight win streak at HW all by stoppage

so why would a win over someone who has never fought in the weightclass count more than a win over a guy who is a top contender?
I mean aside from the obvious? He already beat francis, for one
 
Jones was already pillow fisted at LHW and his TDs are easily stuffed now that he's 30+, slow and off the PEDs. Stipe either KO's him or wins a decision.
 
You don’t see the logic in putting 2 long standing, all time great champions in a super fight for the belt before the number one contender in the weight class?

For the record, I’m not exactly sure who’s more likely to beat stipe although I lean toward jones.
I made 2 points. I'll make them again:

1) Just because a guy tweets that he's ready to be the #1 contender, doesn't necessarily mean he's the #1 contender
2) 2 months ago Jones and Dana couldn't see eye to eye on money. Who thinks that just because Jon now says he's ready for Stipe, that negotiations are going to be simple and easy?

But to your actual question should champs get auto title shots? Well, if anyone deserves it, Jon does.

Mostly though, who cares what I think anyway? If it's Stipe v x, I'm probably going to watch, so shrug.
 
I made 2 points. I'll make them again:

1) Just because a guy tweets that he's ready to be the #1 contender, doesn't necessarily mean he's the #1 contender
2) 2 months ago Jones and Dana couldn't see eye to eye on money. Who thinks that just because Jon now says he's ready for Stipe, that negotiations are going to be simple and easy?

But to your actual question should champs get auto title shots? Well, if anyone deserves it, Jon does.
I’m not arguing the subjective opinion of who’s the number one contender and who isn’t. I’m also not much interested in what Dana says. Dana’s word is fluid lol
 
The eye poke literally happens in the GIF. How on earth can you post it in a serious manner?
It doesn`t matter. I can give other examples:
He lost to Junior dos Santos (when JDS was in his Prime)
The best example is this:


All i´m saying, that Francis deserves a second chance. Stipe got his chance of redemption, why not Francis?
 
So by not caring you are concluding Stipe is pillowfisted, cool have a great day.
Stipe is one of the most prolific finishers in heavyweight history with zero submissions on top of being the GOAT
 
I made 2 points. I'll make them again:

1) Just because a guy tweets that he's ready to be the #1 contender, doesn't necessarily mean he's the #1 contender
2) 2 months ago Jones and Dana couldn't see eye to eye on money. Who thinks that just because Jon now says he's ready for Stipe, that negotiations are going to be simple and easy?

But to your actual question should champs get auto title shots? Well, if anyone deserves it, Jon does.

Mostly though, who cares what I think anyway? If it's Stipe v x, I'm probably going to watch, so shrug.

I already answered this for you.

If Jon Jones, GSP, Anderson Silva, Fedor, Jose Aldo, BJ Penn, Mighty Mouse - in their prime want a title shot a division up, they are getting that fucking title shot.

And they all 100% deserve it because they are all-time greats undeniably. I'm not sure why people have some autistic fixation of stacking up 9 wins in a division to get a title shot or something. That's not how it works in boxing either, superfights happen. We should want cross-divisional superfights, we missed out on that with GSP-Silva and Silva-Jones for a decade.

So unless there's just some ludicrous extenuating circumstances, a guy like Jon Jones a literal top 3 resume' all-time easily definitely deserves an instant title shot at HW over a guy who's already lost to the champ (and lost after) then put together a nice 4 win streak.

So:

1. Yes he is.

2. Who cares?

Why do you want to have some discussion over the politics of matchmaking. Who cares. Yeah whatever happens, happens. But you started out by saying Ngannou has a better case for a title shot than Jones did, as if he was getting robbed. I just don't see how that's remotely true.

TLDR: Here's the perfect analogy. Yushin Okami's title shot vs Silva.

In some parallel universe where GSP decided to fight Silva at MW, would you be upset for Okami? Yushin Okami went 10-2 only losing to Franklin and Sonnen, and won three straight over Linhares, Munoz, and Marquardt before getting the title shot at MW. He also was technically 1-0 (DQ win) over Anderson Silva as opposed to Ngannou's 0-1 (50-44) record against Stipe.

So if GSP moved up right after Okami beat Marquardt do you honestly think Okami's "right" to a title shot takes precedent over GSP's or is greater somehow? Because I think that's completely retarded frankly and GSP is getting that title shot 100/100 times. Point here is Ngannou has a worse case than Okami did easily, so Jones is getting that title shot 100/100 times and yeah UFC politics, negotiations I have no control over so I don't give a fuck about that.
 
Having a tough time imagening a Jones win (maybe a "boring" decision?), whereas i can think of many ways of Stipe finishing Jones.
 
First, I think Stipe should fight Jon Jones before he fights Ngannou.

Your analysis is divine. I couldn't agree more. Thank you.

Any "Champion vs. Champion" fight should take precedence over any "Champion vs. already-beaten contender." Period, there is nothing to debate.

Beating Jones would be a significant achievement for Stipe; beating Ngannou would be a repeat of what he has already done.

That said, Stipe is a much more dangerous opponent "for Jones" than Jones is for Stipe. The truth is, Jones isn't really dangerous at all for Miocic:
  • In his last 9 fights, spanning the last 7 years (Sept, 2013 to today), Jones only has 2 finishes. (22%)
  • In his last 13 fights, spanning the last 7 years (Jun, 2013 to today), Stipe has 8 finishes. (62%)
When you further consider the fact Stipe is facing much bigger men ... while a majority of Jones' opponents are bloated middleweights, moving up ... the difference in proven power is even more staggering (pardon the pun :) ).

Looking at the four fighters who have given Jones the most trouble: 1) Gustafsson, 2) Cormier, 3) Santos, and 4) Reyes.

Two of these fighters were Jones' size (Gustafsson and Reyes), while two of them were smaller.

Jon Jones has never faced an authentically-bigger man ...
and he struggles with anyone his own size (let alone a legit, Champion-caliber BIGGER man).
  • Keep in mind. Jon Jones is 6'4", and leans-out to a ripped 205.
  • Meanwhile, Stipe Miocic is 6'4", and leans out to a ripped 233.
This means Jones, at his leanest-BEST is 28 lb. of lean muscle mass smaller than Stipe, while having the same height.
  • While Stipe does have a KO loss to Cormier, I think we can all agree it was a fluke at this point.
  • If you compare the "other two" Cormier fights, each won a decision and got a KO.
Note: Cormier is a special fighter and is atypical for a short, portly individual. Corier's "fireplug" stature makes him particularly difficult for anyone to deal with, and only Jones and Stipe were able to conquer him. Cormier has beaten everybody else. (Jones' KO was also overturned for steroid abuse; Stipe's was not.)

Considering the struggles with the only other two individuals Jones has faced "his size" (Gustafsson and Reyes) ... who are frail and light, compared to Stipe ... Jones will find Stipe's TRULY solid frame too much to deal with.

If Jon Jones was worried about "being hit by" the laughable Reyes (who is soft, weak, and flimsy compared to Stipe), or Thiago Santos (a bloated middleweight, on 2 bad knees, 2" shorter than he), Jones will really have something to worry about facing a LEGIT (not fatass) 6'4", lean 233 monster ... who is quick, who is equally-skilled, and who hits harder than anyone Jones has ever faced.

Even Dominick Reyes looked "a little pudgy" at 205, and was clearly nervous, whereas Stipe is a true alpha-male, ripped at 6'4", 233 lb, and is not a nervous/novice or "still-growing boy."

My best guess is, being highly intelligent, Jon Jones will not have the balls ever to face Stipe, because he has the fight IQ to assess all of the above himself, in private. (Nonetheless, Jones will continue to "tweet on Twitter," but I very much doubt he has the cajones to actually sign the contract.)

In case I am wrong on this part, I will not be wrong on the most important part, and that is Stipe Miocic will dominate Jon Jones, overpower Jon Jones, and out-punch & out-will Jon Jones, to get a mid-to-late-round stoppage. Stipe will dominate Jones standing up, or on the ground, as Jones is actually a thin, flimsy man by comparison at heavyweight.

I hope we all get to see this happen.
 
Stipe is one of the most prolific finishers in heavyweight history with zero submissions on top of being the GOAT
The GOAT of what? He has twenty career wins only.

and he hasn’t finished anyone but an exhausted 50 year old DC since 2017.
 
It doesn`t matter. I can give other examples:
He lost to Junior dos Santos (when JDS was in his Prime)
The best example is this:


All i´m saying, that Francis deserves a second chance. Stipe got his chance of redemption, why not Francis?

Racism maybe
 
I already answered this for you.

If Jon Jones, GSP, Anderson Silva, Fedor, Jose Aldo, BJ Penn, Mighty Mouse - in their prime want a title shot a division up, they are getting that fucking title shot.

And they all 100% deserve it because they are all-time greats undeniably. I'm not sure why people have some autistic fixation of stacking up 9 wins in a division to get a title shot or something. That's not how it works in boxing either, superfights happen. We should want cross-divisional superfights, we missed out on that with GSP-Silva and Silva-Jones for a decade.

So unless there's just some ludicrous extenuating circumstances, a guy like Jon Jones a literal top 3 resume' all-time easily definitely deserves an instant title shot at HW over a guy who's already lost to the champ (and lost after) then put together a nice 4 win streak.

So:

1. Yes he is.

2. Who cares?

Why do you want to have some discussion over the politics of matchmaking. Who cares. Yeah whatever happens, happens. But you started out by saying Ngannou has a better case for a title shot than Jones did, as if he was getting robbed. I just don't see how that's remotely true.

TLDR: Here's the perfect analogy. Yushin Okami's title shot vs Silva.

In some parallel universe where GSP decided to fight Silva at MW, would you be upset for Okami? Yushin Okami went 10-2 only losing to Franklin and Sonnen, and won three straight over Linhares, Munoz, and Marquardt before getting the title shot at MW. He also was technically 1-0 (DQ win) over Anderson Silva as opposed to Ngannou's 0-1 (50-44) record against Stipe.

So if GSP moved up right after Okami beat Marquardt do you honestly think Okami's "right" to a title shot takes precedent over GSP's or is greater somehow? Because I think that's completely retarded frankly and GSP is getting that title shot 100/100 times. Point here is Ngannou has a worse case than Okami did easily, so Jones is getting that title shot 100/100 times and yeah UFC politics, negotiations I have no control over so I don't give a fuck about that.
I'll answer the question you almost but didn't quite ask.

Yes, I was also against Aldo, GSP, BJ, Conor etc getting immediate title shots. Many of us were.

I wasn't as much against Randy getting his, because HW was empty right at that moment. But today, it is not empty; it has Ngannou.

It's not that big a deal. Ngannou was all lined up for the last few months. We all knew this. Jones wanted Ngannou for lots of $. He was told no. Now he wants Stipe for lots of money. My guess is he'll be told no. For purely business and UFC negotiation reasons. But I also happen to disagree with automatic title shots, including this one.

But that's just me, an old time curmudgeon of an MMA fan that you can now ignore if you choose.
 
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