Systema -"A Phd for those with batchelors, you're talking to guys who haven't graduated high school"

[DanTheWolfman.com]

Actually his son is is also an instructor. He is able to write english properly too and is available to ask about his style.
Does they have connection with reclamed systema or no. BTW famous YT have some vidos with him too.

Reclaimed? IDK youtube wasn't around when others popped up....

So where did they get the skills to move like that with such precision and timing?

IDK, don't really care much, skill is skill, and learning concepts to become better is all that matters doesn't matter styles name or how very low level sewing circle women on the internet think of it.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

You are still here?

I thought you were OUT remember?

And it took you a half hour to use Rener as a comeback, whom also missed it, after I owned your ass because you think you want to give up your arm to somebody.
And, just like I say in that my vid I am good at getting better guys with one hand, but that doesn't mean it is as good as the Crushing power possibly required to get a top grappler to tap now does it?

And just because I know some stuff others don't, be that Rener or you, doesn't mean I am claiming to be better than them. Rener sure seemed to like that Rolling Darce and Rolling Cobra Neck Cranks to finish off tough guys at seminars.....but guess you missed those too. Or, can you recall exactly where and in what vids I am talking about? Being your IQ seems to be around 90 or so I doubt it. Funny, don't remember those being in the OG GJJ curriculum either.

Now you have a super iq lmfaoo... dude get some help, for real...

Bottom line, the only person in this planet who claims to be among the best with super techniques that the best are using , yet hasn’t done jack fucking shit but posting vids of i trained with this that and that guy, instead of stepping in a mat to compete is you! Instead of calling yourself Einstein Marcelo Damian Rickson all in once, you could’ve you know, for a change step in some grapplers quest or what ever regional tournament there is around to actually prove how good you are, go treat yourself, for real. I’m not joking, the reason you are who you are, basically the Laugh of most mma sites is because of your mental health, not due to your grappling skills.

 

[SandisLL]

how very low level sewing circle women on the internet think of it.

Beautiful.
BTW this forum is readable also in Russia, yes. And we here have guys from Russia too.

 

[DanTheWolfman.com]

Now you have a super iq lmfaoo... dude get some help, for real...

Bottom line, the only person in this planet who claims to be among the best with super techniques that the best are using , yet hasn’t done jack fucking shit but posting vids of i trained with this that and that guy, instead of stepping in a mat to compete is you! Instead of calling yourself Einstein Marcelo Damian Rickson all in once, you could’ve you know, for a change step in some grapplers quest or what ever regional tournament there is around to actually prove how good you are, go treat yourself, for real. I’m not joking, the reason you are who you are, basically the Laugh of most mma sites is because of your mental health, not due to your grappling skills.

Oh are you RAGING? What's wrong baby?

Sad you contribute nothing and are a bad person?

That you are not even a man, you said you were OUT and yet here you are again?

That I sonned you, you acted like you want to give someone control of your arm, yet you claim to be a brown belt?

This is a Systema thread, started by someone OTHER than me, using my vids, to push their Chinese Gung Fu agenda lol

 

[DanTheWolfman.com]

Beautiful.
BTW this forum is readable also in Russia, yes. And we here have guys from Russia too.

This as in THIS Sherdog forum, or another forum and if so which one?

It seems two of you are recognizing somewhat Kado, but wanted to besmirch Ryabko/Vasiliev side of things?

I don't care about the politics, someone else started this thread and I feel some should listen to concepts.

Also, pointing out that Where did that other Russian side of Systema come from? You can't just get skills out of nowhere, esp before youtube etc.

People don't have to like me or systema.

But to deny I have skills in various areas, or to say someone like Vladimir has no skills is just asinine. You could show stunt people (which I am one) the fight choreography, and they couldn't do the things Vladimir does with Precision and Timing INSTINCTUALLY not rehearsed.

Just think about the precision and timing, even if you think a lot looks silly.

Be a critical thinker.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Oh are you RAGING? What's wrong baby?

Sad you contribute nothing and are a bad person?

That you are not even a man, you said you were OUT and yet here you are again?

That I sonned you, you acted like you want to give someone control of your arm, yet you claim to be a brown belt?

This is a Systema thread, started by someone OTHER than me, using my vids, to push their Chinese Gung Fu agenda lol

this is my last reply, cause you are really an idiot.

when the choke is that deep, I cayo give 2 shits what the other person is doing with my other arm, again if you suck at one handed chokes, that’s up to you.

I don’t claim jack shit, my pics getting my brown are here, and it has been 3 years since that.

now i let your systema crap thread alone, have fun, Napoleon...

 

[Islam Imamate]

There are only two authentic martial arts coming from Russia - Sambo and Combat Sambo. Both are mainly based on Judo and Jiu-jitsu. If someone tells you about "Spetnaz training" they are selling you shit.

I remember reading a long time ago that Sambo was also influenced by European wrestling styles like catch wrestling. When you watch Khabib fight it certainly looks that way, more so than Fedor who had good wrestling but seemed to rely more on upper body takedowns and throws that show the Judo influence.

 

[DanTheWolfman.com]

this is my last reply, cause you are really an idiot.

when the choke is that deep, I cayo give 2 shits what the other person is doing with my other arm, again if you suck at one handed chokes, that’s up to you.

I don’t claim jack shit, my pics getting my brown are here, and it has been 3 years since that.

now i let your systema crap thread alone, have fun, Napoleon...

Whoa Bro, his temper tantrum really showed me.


WHHHHAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

So, I guess we can not only infer he is saying my one handed chokes suck, but that Maia's must as well, and that Ben just sucks and isn't tough, that Maia made sure to add PHENOMENAL CRUSHING POWER by grabbing his own elbow to POWER ASSIST SUPPORT his one handed choke, and when that was pulled off to slide down to the BUTTERFLY GRIP to continually add that same CRUSHING POWER. Unlike all other one hand grips that are just literally one hand, Maia, for some reason decided two is more than one. I know, hard concept for some people

 

[DanTheWolfman.com]

I remember reading a long time ago that Sambo was also influenced by European wrestling styles like catch wrestling. When you watch Khabib fight it certainly looks that way, more so than Fedor who had good wrestling but seemed to rely more on upper body takedowns and throws that show the Judo influence.

All things influence all things.

And yes, when developing Sambo they looked at many things. Russky himself gave very nice link to book stating as such.

As for Khabib, hard to tell how much is the awesome wrestling influence from years from DC.

Further, you do know Russia is pretty darn big right? Sambo schools are very different from each other, some way more like Judo, no leglocks, some more wrestling huge throws Georgian grips, and some specialize leglocks. American commentators acted like all Sambo guys were leglock specialists, yet in Sport Sambo you can not even heel hook (nor toe hold I don't think)

 

[General_Speckz]

DantheWolfman, you are pretty weird, dude.

What are you trying to get out of life?

 

[TheMaster]

That long time lasted from around 1947 through 1953. Rest of the history can be described as cold war sometimes turning hot.


This "Systema" thing was invented in 90s after Soviet Union breakup. People were trying to survive and earn money in every way possible. Videos and books were available, and borrowing from other styles was not uncommon.

Saying it was created in the 90's is laughably ludicrous. If u at least had claimed 70's might have been more believable since with the Bruce Lee craze at that time asian arts like tai chi were getting more well known in the west so possible some Russians came into contact with it even in western countries.

Also Kadochnikov is observabley the same system as Ryabko there are not huge differences.
Also Kadochnikov shows the foundation of contact flow sensitivity, but his preference was to demonstrate it with rifles and shovels but it is essentially the same.
I only said they needed to even have the idea seeded of sticky hands training through witnessing it to go with the concept and work out the rest with body mechanics.
Since then they have no doubt added to systema from various sources but especially cma internal styles since the info and methodologies have all been quite public for decades.

And it seems not all your comrades disregarded systema in the 90's.
Here is most famous Russian Sambo fighter of the era Oleg Taktarov doing a vid with Vladimir Vasiliev, not long after his UFC title win.
No need for him to share screen time with someone unless he respects their skills alot who anyone who has seen Vlad work would naturally do.

This is a Systema thread, started by someone OTHER than me, using my vids, to push their Chinese Gung Fu agenda lol

First up a few things

- It is impossible not to see the clear connection with sticky hands and contact sensitivity training throughout Systema, and many many people have pointed this out not only me. Thus they needed to have either reinvented it, or much more likely been influenced by it. I have no agenda to push other than to give credit where it is due. Obviously u seem averse to the idea of CMA in general probably because u think it would affect your credability even tho systema is basically and evolved version of the same art which anyone without predjudice will be at odds to explain.

Also, Tai chi is translated as 'Supreme Ultimate System'.

- the use of your vid and quote was because I found it refreshing and interesting to see a (reasonably) respected former member of the mma pro fight community publically acknowledging systema.
This is also why I had the courtesy to pm u first before creating the thread which u agreed with, otherwise I would have been happy to have had this as a private discussion with u but some of it can also no doubt be of interest to the wider community.

- I have otherwise watched maybe less tham 3 of your videos before this ever, and as many have stated there are many top instructors who post good material on all aspects of martial arts and shall we say, get to the point alot faster.
Some words of advice, edit your videos dowm so they are 5 - 10 minutes rather than half an hour an u will have more people bothering to listen to what u have to say if it is relevant to them.

- best vid was of Pogocich playing with u which he posted online, not you

- as an aside, u dont need to be an mma fighter to be able to comment on top level martial arts. U had I think 4 pro fights and no doubt have trained and sparred with alot of good and famous guys, so your opinions carry weight especially in this community.
Outside this, thera are top systema guys who never competed who have equally or more valid opinions than u on many areas of martial arts based on their experiences including workiing security etc. The same is true for the legit top level guys in other arts who worked security or otherwise used their skills in real life.

For myself I never claimed to have done security work or fought mma so fighting in Judo and training to a high level in wing chun and being in contact with legit masters of the arts has been as close as I have come but it has been sufficient to develop applicable skills and to recognize high levels of skill in other arts and shared principles.
And I think there are many who trained different arts who have a similar type of training background whether MT, BJJ etc which they are happy with. Plus I dont have CTE as I value my brain so many of these arts and ways of training have the important longevity to them.

 

[JSN]

Basically any martial arts system is going to produce good fighters if its not too inherently flawed and focuses on actual sparring instead of "stand here passively for me."

That said, clearly there are some martial arts where if you had equal access to all, you'd be better off taking.

 

[INTERL0PER]

Man, the technique forums continue to provide the best drama on Sherdog.

 

[Hotora86]

 

[Russky]

- It is impossible not to see the clear connection with sticky hands and contact sensitivity training throughout Systema, and many many people have pointed this out not only me. Thus they needed to have either reinvented it, or much more likely been influenced by it. I have no agenda to push other than to give credit where it is due. Obviously u seem averse to the idea of CMA in general probably because u think it would affect your credability even tho systema is basically and evolved version of the same art which anyone without predjudice will be at odds to explain.

The most likely source for this in Russia is rapier fencing adaptation to bare hands.

 

[Sensei Student]

Any videos on Systema working in a real fight or in competition?

Not in slow motion sparring or in demos? Demos are all choreographed like the actions in movies.

 

[Dexter]

@Dexter what your thoughts on systema?

In Russia, especially among fighters (boxers, mt/kb/mma guys, etc.) such styles as Kadochnikov, Systema and some others are viewed as complete bullshit, useless in live situation, either on the street or in sport bouts by more or less free rules, like mma.
It’s just stuffing pockets at the expense of gullible people who want to become cool, but don’t want to endure the pain, injuries and other things that always accompany real martial arts.

I remember reading a long time ago that Sambo was also influenced by European wrestling styles like catch wrestling. When you watch Khabib fight it certainly looks that way, more so than Fedor who had good wrestling but seemed to rely more on upper body takedowns and throws that show the Judo influence.

Wrestling is VERY popular in that part of Russia where Khabib was born, so there is nothing strange about it.

 

[TheMaster]

The most likely source for this in Russia is rapier fencing adaptation to bare hands.

Quite possible. But assuming that was the case, and they stumbled upon one of the core principles of Chinese internal arts they would have then had access to a whole system of interchangeable training methods once CMA became known to them which they no doubt have significantly incorporated.



0:36 for textbook bagua/sticky hands from Kadochnikov.
I personally still dont buy it as a purely independent Russian re-invention and knowing how reluctant the soviets were to admit Japanese origins for Sambo I dont doubt similar attitudes for Systema

In Russia, especially among fighters (boxers, mt/kb/mma guys, etc.) such styles as Kadochnikov, Systema and some others are viewed as complete bullshit, useless in live situation, either on the street or in sport bouts by more or less free rules, like mma.
It’s just stuffing pockets at the expense of gullible people who want to become cool, but don’t want to endure the pain, injuries and other things that always accompany real martial arts.

This thread is interesting for a number of reasons.
You have contribition from a couple of Russians, trying to distance themselves from Systema when clearly it has had at least some respect among some members of Russian mma circles and military combatives in Kadachnikov.

Then u have the bulk of responders; low to mediocre level hobbyists or guys who dont train and have no experience with systema or internal arts, just so sure it is bad from watching videos and making eroneous arguments about why they think its not used yet in mma (actually as pointed out, some principles are).

If anyone read the thread, everyone is in agreement systema is not a good base. Stick to Judo or wrestling. Add some secondary arts like BJJ or just more submissions if u want. Add some striking training if u want.
Systema comes in as a great addition once you already have a good base. There are some principles of relaxation and fluidity that can add to your skillset.

In fact all of the top systema instructors have multiple experience and high level skill in other arts before coming to systema.
As has also been said, there is alot of bs in systema as there also is in other arts including BJJ. Gracie combatives and self defence curriculum anyone?
But that does not mean that there is not alot of great high level skill and principles there also.

Props also to guy like wolfman (a Gokor Chivichyan Blackbelt) who has the guts to say it like it is when he recognizes real skill and not just spout popular opinions and fashions like most.

Anyone who looks with a critical eye can see top level martial arts skills when they are there - if u cant recognize this due to blind prejudices u are decieving yourself.

And where I agree to disagree with wolfman;

Acknowledgement to the application and Russian development of freeform Chinese Internal Kungfu and integration and flow of martial principles with other arts that is Systema.

 

[Maxwell44]

Dan is higher level than 99% of people on this forum

 

[Dexter]

You have contribition from a couple of Russians, trying to distance themselves from Systema when clearly it has had at least some respect among some members of Russian mma circles and military combatives in Kadachnikov.

Where did you get the information that Systemа is respected in these circles? I've been training for about twenty years now, mostly boxing, but also MT/wushu and have never met a real athlete / fighter who speaks well about BS styles like Systema, Ryabko and Kadochnikov. And of course not one of these systems is recognized in the army-police-special forces. All hand-to-hand training in these organizations is carried out on the basis of proven and time-tested schools - boxing, wrestling, sambo, judo, etc. And hand-to-hand combat training is more likely to cultivate moral-volitional qualities, rather than for real preparation for a fight without weapons, because the probability of HtH during the modern war tends to zero. In Russia, Systema is the same subject for offensive jokes among athletes, like aikido and other non-working styles, designed to counter an unresisting opponent or intended for beautiful shows, not real fighting.

If we talk about the Army and such, then there are official competitions in Army hand-to-hand combat aka ARB. ARB/Dinamo combatives are the only styles, cultivated in army/police:

ARB rules hand-to-hand combat:


"Dinamo" rules hand-to-hand combat:




As you can see from this video, ARB has nothing to do with Systema or Ryabko/Kadochnikov's nonsense.

UPD.
Russia National Guard SMU test (sparrings from 7:13, you can observe applied techniques):