Taekwondo in MMA (from a blackbelt)

[XmaKoda]

What style is the kick-gun..?

 

[Guestx]

wow, thanks a lot for that!

Yeah, no problem. Glad someone got some use out of it. I hate it when I put together some long shit like that and no one gives a fuck.

it was really interesting seeing how the organizations differ. if I ever take taekwondo Ill know what to look for now, either ITF for an overall more complete art or WTF for those awesome kicking skills.

Yeah. TKD is a cool style, but you HAVE to be involved with a good, serious school that hopefully has dedicated classes for adults.

Personally, I like the ITF's sparring rules. They're pretty similar to old school American kickboxing, just not full contact. You get to throw your kicks, but you also get to work your hands and punch people in the face. The problem is finding a good dojang. I searched far and wide for an ITF school in my area a little while back and they all sucked. The classes were composed mostly of women and kids and there was no sparring. But if you can find a GOOD ITF school then it can serve you well.

The WTF is cool too, but obviously very different. I've considered checking out some local WTF schools, but just haven't gotten around to it yet. One thing you want to look for though is a school that actually has you use your hands in sparring instead of focusing completely on the tournament rules. That is, unless you just want to treat it as a sport and get really good at the sport, and there's nothing wrong with that.

the ata was certainly lacking although I think the video showed some of the same people over and over, it most certainly looked like a small "local" Tournament, not like the others.

Yeah, that was just the best vid I could find, but it's pretty indicative of most of what I've seen out of the ATA. Also, that was a Worlds competition, so presumably the best competitors in the world should be there. By and large, they're just not very good when it comes to using their skills, whether as fighters or as sport TKDists.

Another thing you'll notice that's different from the ITF or WTF is that they place a big emphasis on weapons. They have a number of different weapons that you learn to use on the way to black belt.

With all that said, I hate it when people make definitive, sweeping statements, like saying that all of the ATA sucks, so to be fair there are at least two ATA competitors who have gone on to have some degree of success in the wider combat sports world. . .


1. Jody Horn

He listed as a "Colorado State Olympic Champion" (not sure exactly what that means to be honest) and apparently was also invited to train at the Olympic Training Center. I also READ that he was selected as an Olympic alternate, though it was just a user on a forum who mentioned it, so I'm not sure how true that is.


Here's a vid of him sparring. . . His moves sure look pretty, even though the "sparring" here is kind of a joke:








2. Chris Martin

He's like a bajillion time ATA champion in various categories. Here are some vids I found: an ATA sparring match at a comp, his muay Thai debut, his second muay Thai fight, and a commercial he was in.

 

[Da Crusha]

Whoa a lot of flash from Jody Horn. was pretty entertaining. only gripe was the hand work. Also pretty cool seeing Chris Martin having success in muay thai fights. he didnt seem to change his style too much to accommodate for the rules either which makes it even cooler.

 

[Guestx]

Whoa a lot of flash from Jody Horn. was pretty entertaining. only gripe was the hand work.

Apparently that is some sort of demonstrational form of sparring where they show off their techniques without actually hitting each other. I've heard that it is used of other martial arts as well. Sounds gay to me, but you can at least see flashes of his brilliance that has garnered him some attention by the TKD world beyond the ATA.

he didnt seem to change his style too much to accommodate for the rules either which makes it even cooler.

I agree. I'm always down with it when TMA guys go on to other sports, like kickboxing or MMA, and retain their own style. I mean, Machida wouldn't be nearly as cool if he was just another muay Thai clone.

 

[k.o. kid]

With all that said, I hate it when people make definitive, sweeping statements, like saying that all of the ATA sucks, so to be fair there are at least two ATA competitors who have gone on to have some degree of success in the wider combat sports world. . .


1. Jody Horn

He listed as a "Colorado State Olympic Champion" (not sure exactly what that means to be honest) and apparently was also invited to train at the Olympic Training Center. I also READ that he was selected as an Olympic alternate, though it was just a user on a forum who mentioned it, so I'm not sure how true that is.

Jody was never an Olympic alternate. Juan Morena went that year and the alternate that placed 2nd in the olympic trials was Jason Torres. As far as the State olympic champion its just winning states for USTU at the time which is now USA Taekwondo

ATA has produced a few more combat athletes that have had success in MMA, pro kickboxing, Muay Thai or WTF tkd. Anthony Pettis, Brian Davidson, Sergio Pettis, Danny Abaddi, Nathan Kirby, Hermann Von Schmeling, Cory Hill, Jody Horn, Sean Smith, Eric Albrecht, Jeff Battenburg, Christopher Martin.

 

[Guestx]

Jody was never an Olympic alternate. Juan Morena went that year and the alternate that placed 2nd in the olympic trials was Jason Torres. As far as the State olympic champion its just winning states for USTU at the time which is now USA Taekwondo

Interesting. Thanks for the info. I did suspect that the bit about him being an Olympic alternate was rubbish when it wasn't state here:

http://www.paragonmartialarts.com/horn.html

ATA has produced a few more combat athletes that have had success in MMA, pro kickboxing, Muay Thai or WTF tkd. Anthony Pettis, Brian Davidson, Sergio Pettis, Danny Abaddi, Nathan Kirby, Hermann Von Schmeling, Cory Hill, Jody Horn, Sean Smith, Eric Albrecht, Jeff Battenburg, Christopher Martin.

I had heard that about Anthony Pettis and Davidson. You can see Pettis's TKD background in a lot of his kicks.

Are you an ATA guy? If so, being also an MMA minded individual, what is your opinion on the level of training you get with them?

 

[k.o. kid]

Are you an ATA guy? If so, being also an MMA minded individual, what is your opinion on the level of training you get with them?

Yeah I'm a 5th degree black belt in ATA but also a Kukkiwon certified black belt. I train and compete for sport tkd/WTF. You have to find the right ATA instructor. It is great for kicking if the instructor knows how to modify it for full contact. I was an amateur boxer and been in tkd since very young. I had no desire to fight mma, sport tkd is my passion. But if mma is someones goal they can go through ATA because they have schools that do teach Gracie JJ and have mma programs. But as for just taking an ATA traditional tkd class and competing in mma I wouldn't recommend it just like someone taking boxing to compete in mma.

 

[Guestx]

I've heard that before, regarding having to find the right ATA teacher. I'm sure there are some quality instructors/schools out there.

I just can't get over the sparring rules and what seems to be the organization's general attitude toward feel-good, light-contact TKD.

Are you still involved with the ATA? Have you known of any ATA instructors who you would say actually teach the style in a way that would good for self-defense? Because in most of the vids I've seen it's clear that even the black belts know little about actual fighting.

 

[k.o. kid]

Just think of the sparring rules as a game. I know the rules don't favor full contact fihgting but it can teach you valuable skills like distance. Not everyone does martial arts to be a fighter. There is self defense, weapons, forms, tricking and sparring. ATA focuses on martial arts for the whole family. So it may seem watered down but it just requires you to look harder for what you want. I am still involved with the ATA but on a very limited bases becasue of olympic tkd. ATA offers a couple great self defense programs. For women. SHARP, Sexual Harassment And Rape Prevention. PPCT, Pressure Point Control Tactics which is taught to a lot of law enforcement. Also there are ATA instructors that are certified in F.I.G.H.T, Krav Maga, Systema or Keysi fighting method. It just requires you to look. You could try the ATA website for schools and make some phone calls.

 

[AustroBoricua]

I would love to learn ITF Tae Kwon Do, but I believe all the TKD schools in Austria/Vienna are WTF TKD. Although I think the WTF training quality is pretty high here, considering we've had a few guys compete in the Olympics.

 

[mooserverte]

what you said originally isn't all true. it depends on what competition you do. i have competed in european championships and world championships and they are all full contact ( along as you are over 13 and are black belt). some of the action is amazingly full contact. my team mate won the european open. his semi final fight was ended by a doctor (he broke the guys nose with a punch) and the final was ended with a KO! it was punches followed by a head kick, resulting in a KO! no wimps in the black belt europeans

 

[Axekickswork]

You talk about clearing up misconceptions, yet you perpetuate the same WTF and ITF stereotypes that people have been going on about for the past three and a half decades.

I know I'm years later on this but this guy is right. A large number of fighters we see in mma are coming from a wtf background, look at Barbozas ok of etim, a beautiful spin hook you will see mainly in wtf style sparring. Both ITF and wtf styles have something to bring to mma, so to say the full contact style of wtf brings "nothing" to fighting is pretty ridiculous.

 

[Nuclearlandmine]

why are we bumping dead thread?

 

[Hagelslag2]

I know I'm years later on this but this guy is right. A large number of fighters we see in mma are coming from a wtf background, look at Barbozas ok of etim, a beautiful spin hook you will see mainly in wtf style sparring. Both ITF and wtf styles have something to bring to mma, so to say the full contact style of wtf brings "nothing" to fighting is pretty ridiculous.

I'm a 3rd degree black belt myself and have competed in ITF events, WTF events and Muay Thai matches as a (semi) pro (depending on your definition of pro) and I can say both styles of taekwondo teach things that can be very beneficial to a fighter.

The pros I see with ITF taekwondo is that the competitors have much more of a fighter's mentality than their WTF counter parts. Although the rules state contact has to be proportional, matches can get pretty heated. I won the Dutch Open by TKO'ing my opponent with a hard 1-2, for example.

In WTF rules events I've seen people fake injuries just to catch a breath, because of that silly time limit rule they have for injuries. Also, 8-counts don't score you any points anymore, so people don't try to knock their opponents down. As everyone knows, punches are barely counted. The focus on kicks and speed and the lack of appreciation for KD's makes that WTF competitors have incredible timing, because it's really only about not being hit and moving in and out as quick as possible.

In short, ITF competitor have much more of a fighter's mentality, while I find the WTF competitors to have much better timing. In my Muay Thai matches I found that my positioning was often better than my opponent's, in the sense that getting a clean hit on me was hard. Of course I tended to be much moe creative with my kicks than most people. Those things only work when you really adapt a MT/KB game though, because going into a KB/MT match with just your TKD skills will get you beat up.

 

[Hagelslag2]

why are we bumping dead thread?

Well, it's better than making a new one about the same subject.