Takedown Diversity UFC 2018

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by SummerStriker, Jul 5, 2018.

  1. ArtemV

    ArtemV Gold Belt

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    Oh lol, whoops. Yes, I prefer Inside trips a lot more than outside.
     
  2. EndlessCritic

    EndlessCritic Gold Belt

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    Weird thread to make.

    Firstly, there's tons of new funky takedowns being hit. Tyler Diamond hit an awesome ankle pick on Bryce Mitchell on Friday in what will go down as one of the best grappling fights of the year (that nobody watched.)

    More importantly, you oversimplify things when you say something like "single leg". There are lots of different setups to single legs, and lots of different finishes. Running the pipe remains king, but we're also starting to see more variants becoming popular (ie: Tatiana Suarez is extremely good at the treetop finish, Michinori Tanaka has a very unique head outside single, Khabib is king at taking the back off of a single leg, etc.)

    It's the equivalent of saying that the striking is really basic since it's mostly punches, kicks, knees, and elbows.
     
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  3. Thaijitsu612

    Thaijitsu612 Brown Belt

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    Its more like the equivalent of saying striking is getting more boxing heavy with less kicks, knees, and elbows.

    Yes you can still find people hitting other moves, but you can still observe a definite trend in the approach to takedowns. I really think its just that most fighters are taking a more intelligent approach. Fighters rely on high percentage lower risk moves and fundamentals more than in the past.
     
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  4. EndlessCritic

    EndlessCritic Gold Belt

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    Meanwhile Israel Adesanya went for an imanari roll against Brad Tavares on Friday.
     
  5. mataleaos

    mataleaos Purple Belt

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    I don't know if there's any correlation at all but I think EBI overtime rounds has made it to where the RNC and armbar games have become so fucking detailed. It seems like those 2 subs are a lot less automatic than before. The people finishing the RNC from the back and from the armbar position are using pretty refined and sometimes intricate gripping and grip-breaking sequences and people on defense are finding clever and creative ways of stopping those submissions.

    I don't watch as much MMA anymore but in sport grappling unless you catch an armbar or RNC in transition then you've got some work cut out for you to finish those subs.
     
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  6. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    I think it's more this. The flashier TDs you used to see came from a relatively limited number of people with unusual style backgrounds, usually something like judo or karate. I mean, who other than Akiyama was ever hitting jumping osoto gari? Not many big turning throws other than from people like Ronda or Karo (going back a long way). Machida used to hit some clean foot sweeps, but of course he's a karate + sumo guy.

    The other factor is people just don't grapple as much as they used to. The scoring has moved so much to favor striking that having a heavy wrestling based game just isn't as popular, so you see fewer grappling engagements in general. Used to be if you got a guy up against the fence you'd almost always use it to try and take him down. Now you're more likely to try to get and underhook, dirty box, and win the round. There are some exceptions to this like Khabib or Kamaru Usman, but in general there aren't nearly as many wrestling first fighters as there once was.
     
  7. Thaijitsu612

    Thaijitsu612 Brown Belt

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    Yup and tony Ferguson throws rolling thunder kicks. Yet jabs are used more than ever. There are always outliers.
     
  8. EndlessCritic

    EndlessCritic Gold Belt

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    MMA has this neat trick to make subs easier called punching your opponent in the face.
     
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  9. Krimzon

    Krimzon Purple Belt

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    no but i would expect to see this happen in mma
     
  10. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    why would you expect it to happen in mma if doesnt happen much in combat sambo? combat sambo is basically mma with a gi...
     
  11. Krimzon

    Krimzon Purple Belt

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    I expect (especially in the short run),a significant population of folks in mma won't train throws or counter throws with a gi, just like how many fighters don't know the ins and outs of the leglock game or de la riva.

    Adding the gi would be a huge new layer to mma and since both parties will have the option to wear one or not, some fighters might neglect to train it altogether, resulting in a knowledge/skills gap.
     
  12. yetanother

    yetanother Brown Belt

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    If you could optionally wear a gi in mma nobody would wear it. Wearing is a huge disadvantage. You can get tossed around with judo and berimboloed just for the benefit of looking cool.
     
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  13. TheFakeMacoy

    TheFakeMacoy Green Belt

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    Yeah, the gi was optional in Pride, but you saw a lot of people choosing not to wear it. The fact they could put sponsors on it probably increased how much it was worn.
     
  14. Cross_Trainer

    Cross_Trainer Yellow Belt

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    Could this reflect an increasing proportion of fighters coming into MMA from either wrestling or specialized MMA gyms, rather than other arts with more unusual takedowns? (E.g., Machida or Parisyan, mentioned above).

    I guess it would be testable -- one could check fighting organizations in Japan, where there's a heavier judo influence, and see whether they also show a shift to single and double legs. That might show whether it's a shift of who's going into MMA, or whether we're seeing a standardized core curriculum developing because it seems to work.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
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  15. mataleaos

    mataleaos Purple Belt

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    In gi grappling you are both wearing each other's weapon minus ezekiel chokes. My ideal scenario would be fighting someone that is having to wear a gi while I don't have to.
     
  16. Krimzon

    Krimzon Purple Belt

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    the prospect of extra sponsors on gis also adds a layer of complexity to preparation which could lead to interesting outcomes: "dayum, condom depot says they'll pay me $30K to put a giant patch on my gi..but my opponent is a seasoned Judo blackblelt.. time to step up my gi Judo!"
     
  17. Krimzon

    Krimzon Purple Belt

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    right now, we got leg lock specialists. With gi, we can have some ezekiel specialists, no position is safe!

    wrestling shoes, rainbow pants, gis, eye patches.. let them run wild and free!
     
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  18. EndlessCritic

    EndlessCritic Gold Belt

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    You should have watched the event this past weekend.

    Raoni Barcelos hit an insane Osoto Gari.

    Dennis Bermudez hit a great throwby.

    Liz Carmouche hit outside trips from the clinch against Maia at will (albeit because she's much stronger than Maia.)

    Someone needs to make a gif of Barcelos' osoto.
     
  19. westfield

    westfield White Belt

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    Even in college wrestling there's less diversity these days.
    1. The single leg takedown is still supreme
    Of the 76 takedowns in the quarterfinals, nearly half were some sort of head inside single leg attack. There were variations on this theme, but if you include straight single legs, inside reach attacks, ankle picks, snatch singles where the attacker never touches a knee, and low singles, you can account for 46 percent of the takedowns in those 40 matches. If you add in reattack single legs where a go-behind attempt becomes a single leg, more than half of all takedowns came from what may be the most basic technique in wrestling, and the setups used were nothing exotic either. It is a simplification to say it, but the fact that Jesse Delgado of Illinois seems to be able to not only get in on a single leg, but also finish, against nearly everyone he wrestles has as much as anything to do with his 125 lbs. national championship this March. It takes more than just getting the leg, however, as can be seen in the next point.

    6. The fireman’s carry is all but gone in NCAA wrestling
    The fireman’s carry is a move that had its day, but that day is past. It still exists in high school, and some teams have a fair amount of success with it, but that success mostly ends in college. There are at least two reasons for this change. First, shooting a fireman’s carry often involves shooting across the opponent’s body, giving him a chance to get an advantageous angle on the attacker. Second, as technique trends away from the high crotch toward inside reach single legs, the prevalence of the fireman’s carry will continue to diminish. Robert Kokesh of Nebraska is one contemporary wrestler who did a lot of fireman’s carries during his freshman year of 2011-2012, but he seemed to have moved on from the move to a degree in 2013 and found greater success, including a third place finish in Des Moines.

    Source: https://news.theopenmat.com/blog/2013/08/26/andy-vogel-2013-ncaa-quarterfinal-analysis/
     
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