- Joined
- Jul 13, 2003
- Messages
- 23,907
- Reaction score
- 21
.. as affiliates on Carlson Jr's federation site and informally. Examples of the latter would be Marcus Soares and Marcelo Alonso. They visit and are visited by Carlson Jr from time to time. They seem to simply acknowledge their lineage and go their own way rather than affiliate mainly due to the amount of respect they obviously command. This is much like those longtime masters who either came up thru the belts with Jr or who are senior to him(some who even taught Carlson Jr) who remain in Brazil and teach at the original school and elsewhere in Brasil. Marcelo Saporito, Kiko Velloso, Carlos Manimal, Peixotinho Otavio, Carlos Rosado, Gutenberg Melo, Sergio Bolao, Carlos Barreto, Fernando Pinduka and more would be examples.
2) BJJ Revolution, started by Rodrigo Medeiros and Julio Foca Fernandes, Nova Geracao started by Toco Albuquerque and the aforementioned Rodrigo Medeiros, Top Brother headed by Cezar Casquinha Guimaraes proudly point to their Carlson roots though they are separate entities who call their own shots.
3) There are less well known relatives like Game Fight, GFTeam who were either started by Carlson BB's or guided by Carlson BB's for an extended time.
4) American Top Team, Brazilian Top Team do not enjoy as good a relationship with Carlson Jr and by extension, his affiliates due to the circumstances of their formation. I have never heard anything regarding the creation of Nova Uniao and how GM Carlson Sr felt about it. I don't recall seeing a relationship between Carlson Jr and Andre Pedeneiras or Murilo Bustamante though I have the distinct impression that Carlson Jr is not open to it, moreso than them. I don't know why it seems Murilo and Carlson have not reconciled because I have seen that Ricardo Liborio has buried the hatchet with Carlson Jr.
We all know of the schism where BTT was formed and much of it was action and reaction, misunderstanding and emotion. At that time and many of you were too young to recall this but BJJ was such a revolutionary entity at the time that when the athetes, aware of the brevity of stardom wondered how they best could capitalize before the opportunity disappered. The leaders of the competition team who were best at vale tudo felt uncertain due to GM seemingly paying singular attention to his student Vitor Belfort in the States and left or were expelled due to the perception they were supportive of and in favor of leaving Carlson Gracie Team.
Of course ATT was later formed when Ricardo Liborio was presented with a once in a lifetime opportunity and cannot be faulted for taking it. After all, though he was undisputedly a grappling god he did not experience the same level of success as a full contact fighter. He was a great coach however and coaching gave him an opportunity to secure his future as well as that of his family and the wisdom of that choice is obvious today in the great organization he built, students he's taught and champions who have at times dominated MMA.
I am a huge Carlson Gracie and Carlson Gracie Team fanatic and my question is this .. Is there a negative relationship between Carlson Gracie Federation led by Carlson Gracie Jr and Carlson Gracie Clube in Rio? I don't mean a malicious antipathetic one but one where they do not support one another somewhat. You never or rarely see anyone of Carlson Sr's students in Brasil enthusiastically laud Carlson Jr or see Carlson Jr shout out to Marcelo Saporito, Kiko Velloso or Manimal though they have long taught at the original academy even up til today. They all respect and pay respects to GM and his widow regularly. I do not mean to oversimplify that A=B=C or anything like that. I know that relationships can vary depending on so many variables but if anyone can contribute to a better understanding of the relationships in this great lineage I'd appreciate it.
2) BJJ Revolution, started by Rodrigo Medeiros and Julio Foca Fernandes, Nova Geracao started by Toco Albuquerque and the aforementioned Rodrigo Medeiros, Top Brother headed by Cezar Casquinha Guimaraes proudly point to their Carlson roots though they are separate entities who call their own shots.
3) There are less well known relatives like Game Fight, GFTeam who were either started by Carlson BB's or guided by Carlson BB's for an extended time.
4) American Top Team, Brazilian Top Team do not enjoy as good a relationship with Carlson Jr and by extension, his affiliates due to the circumstances of their formation. I have never heard anything regarding the creation of Nova Uniao and how GM Carlson Sr felt about it. I don't recall seeing a relationship between Carlson Jr and Andre Pedeneiras or Murilo Bustamante though I have the distinct impression that Carlson Jr is not open to it, moreso than them. I don't know why it seems Murilo and Carlson have not reconciled because I have seen that Ricardo Liborio has buried the hatchet with Carlson Jr.
We all know of the schism where BTT was formed and much of it was action and reaction, misunderstanding and emotion. At that time and many of you were too young to recall this but BJJ was such a revolutionary entity at the time that when the athetes, aware of the brevity of stardom wondered how they best could capitalize before the opportunity disappered. The leaders of the competition team who were best at vale tudo felt uncertain due to GM seemingly paying singular attention to his student Vitor Belfort in the States and left or were expelled due to the perception they were supportive of and in favor of leaving Carlson Gracie Team.
Of course ATT was later formed when Ricardo Liborio was presented with a once in a lifetime opportunity and cannot be faulted for taking it. After all, though he was undisputedly a grappling god he did not experience the same level of success as a full contact fighter. He was a great coach however and coaching gave him an opportunity to secure his future as well as that of his family and the wisdom of that choice is obvious today in the great organization he built, students he's taught and champions who have at times dominated MMA.
I am a huge Carlson Gracie and Carlson Gracie Team fanatic and my question is this .. Is there a negative relationship between Carlson Gracie Federation led by Carlson Gracie Jr and Carlson Gracie Clube in Rio? I don't mean a malicious antipathetic one but one where they do not support one another somewhat. You never or rarely see anyone of Carlson Sr's students in Brasil enthusiastically laud Carlson Jr or see Carlson Jr shout out to Marcelo Saporito, Kiko Velloso or Manimal though they have long taught at the original academy even up til today. They all respect and pay respects to GM and his widow regularly. I do not mean to oversimplify that A=B=C or anything like that. I know that relationships can vary depending on so many variables but if anyone can contribute to a better understanding of the relationships in this great lineage I'd appreciate it.
Last edited:
