This is becoming mind-boggling

[fightfan84]

No he didn't, Herb let go of the arm, his arm swung around a bit, gave a brief "thumbs up" and then it went right back to the ground. He didn't even bother to keep his arm up. He wasn't attempting to fight back in a fight at all.

He kept his arm up and have the thumbs up than went back to a 4 point position on the ground.

 

[blaseblah]

He obviously wasn’t out, but that only became apparent after they were separated. I guess it’s partly Robbie’s fault for not showing more signs of life. I also don’t blame Herb at all either because I thought Robbie was out when he stepped in

Herb deserves blame because he lifted Robbie's arm to see if he was conscious and Robbie responded and gave a thumbs up, which is exactly what you are supposed to do in that situation.

 

[GTS]

How do so many people, including the NSAC director, not understand the body-language and capacities of someone who has been rendered unconscious!

It is pretty much impossible, for someone who is just waking up, to declare immediately, lucidly, immediately rise (without stumbling), and declare immediately, that they were never compromised in the first place!

When someone goes completely unconscious, they are effectively inebriated! Robbie literally immediately rose, looked at herb with clear eyes (and mind) and rightly, gave herb a piece of his mind! Intelligently!

What confuses me is how many so-called mma “fans”, don’t understand what a guy who has or has not been choked unconscious looks like!

Discuss

The question is not was he out or was he not out, the question is what did the ref see one way or the other. If the ref saw something that made him believe the fighter was out, it is his duty to act upon it and stop the fight. Once he begins to stop the fight he can not re-start the fight. Wrong call are made all the time, and whining about it and trying to show how much you know with 36+ hours to review every detail changes nothing. What confuses ME is why you're complaining about people not having or caring about HINDSIGHT, which truly has no bearing on anything. You're looking to argue about the most insignificant aspect of the entire fight and complaining the nobody will take you up on the argument.

 

[randomg1t]

He was trying to calm himself and wait for Askren to release the "choke" because it wasn't fully applied, which is why his arm seemingly went limp, as soon as Robbie realized that Herb thought it was a limp arm he gave a thumbs-up.
Herb also tried asking Robbie if he's ok but Robbie couldn't respond because his jaw was being cranked by the choke.
Very unfortunate situation, but I definitely think Herb is at least partially responsible for that. I probably would've stopped the fight aswell if I was in Herb's body and from his point of view it probably looked bad, but damn it's still a mistake.

But whatever, we can't change what happened I guess. I'd love to see the rematch.

yeah we all know now that he likely wasn't out, or at least doesn't realize he was out briefly. he said he couldn't hear herb say anything because of how the choke was held probably covered his ears.

but from the ref's point of view the guy didn't respond to a verbal prompt and had a limp limb. an unfortunate event all around. you could tell herb felt really bad about it too, you can see his face when robbie pops out in the replay and he's perplexed. it just sucks for everyone involved.

but even lawler understands how and why it happened. he had no beef with herb.

 

[awymore]

He did keep his arm up, not only did he keep his arm up, but he gave the ref the thumbs up. Next question

Try watching the video at regular speed and not slow motion. Arm flops to the ground, ref lifts it up, and in less than one second, it flops back to the ground. Even if he gave a thumbs up in that brief interval, the ref would still stop that when he sees the second flop. Just because you give a thumbs up doesn't mean you are invincible to passing out afterward.

 

[fightfan84]

Try watching the video at regular speed and not slow motion. Arm flops to the ground, ref lifts it up, and in less than one second, it flops back to the ground. Even if he gave a thumbs up in that brief interval, the ref would still stop that when he sees the second flop. Just because you give a thumbs up doesn't mean you are invincible to passing out afterward.

It doesn't flop though. A choke is tap or go out. After giving the thumbs up Robbie shouldn't have had to explain more. Especially on a choke that wasn't under the chin . It's like Robbie throwing punches at askrens and the ref stopping it cause one of them could land and possibly knock him out .so he just stopped the fight anyway .

 

[Alpha_T83]

Robbie went out.

Challenge: Show me a gif of someone going limp like that, that wasn't out.

I won't hold my breath.

I agree. Either that or Robbie went limp on purpose to trick Askren into letting up. If the latter is the case, then it's 100% Lawler's fault the fight got stopped.

You don't fake shit like that. Ever.

 

[DelanoRunnymede]

Lmao no they didnt..

The commentators who are UFC schills couldn't even agree..

Lawler was fine..

Simple breakdown

1. He would of fallen over as he was leaning forward with askren hanging on his head..if he went out he would fallen agaisnt the cage slumping forward or flat on his belly

2. Herb moves his arm..robbie moves his arm back..cant do that while napping

3. Fighters dont regain consciousness while still being in the applied choke ..its literally impossible..your either with or without consciousness for the whole thing..

4. Askren was never under the chin..you cant choke someone out without being on the carotid arteries located on each side of the neck ..

5. Robbie springs to his feet in protest again , not something that happens if youve been choked out

6. Robbie was defending a painful jaw crush and he was doing the right thing by tucking his chin and remaining low..and patient\calm any fast bouncey movements like rasing and waving to show a panicked reff im fine..could of allowed that jaw crush to turn into the bulldog choke by slipping under the chin..herb failed to get low enough to see what was happening..Refferring 101 is to you need to have line of site of the submission and the fighter its being applied to..herb was out of position and proceeded on a notion ..not fact..

Referring error should be overturn to a N.C and a immediate rematch rescheduled

Nailed it on every point. 3,4 and 6 are important and not many people seem to be taking it into account.

 

[BoD 2.0]

How do so many people, including the NSAC director, not understand the body-language and capacities of someone who has been rendered unconscious!

It is pretty much impossible, for someone who is just waking up, to declare immediately, lucidly, immediately rise (without stumbling), and declare immediately, that they were never compromised in the first place!

When someone goes completely unconscious, they are effectively inebriated! Robbie literally immediately rose, looked at herb with clear eyes (and mind) and rightly, gave herb a piece of his mind! Intelligently!

What confuses me is how many so-called mma “fans”, don’t understand what a guy who has or has not been choked unconscious looks like!

Discuss

You’re full of shit. I was once kicked in the head sparring. Blacked out and fell immediately. No shit, I saw what was like a headlight of a train getting bigger and bigger and boom! I woke the hell back up when I hit the ground, popped right back up and was completely conscious. And lucid and clear headed.

So yes, it is possible to go out than come back immediately.

I woke up the next morning with veritgo that lasted almost two weeks. But I was able to finish sparring and was completely clear headed as soon as I woke back up after going out for a split second.

 

[Gucci 'Trap God' Mane]

Try watching the video at regular speed and not slow motion. Arm flops to the ground, ref lifts it up, and in less than one second, it flops back to the ground. Even if he gave a thumbs up in that brief interval, the ref would still stop that when he sees the second flop. Just because you give a thumbs up doesn't mean you are invincible to passing out afterward.

People like this wanted Robbie to do this so they can justify the shitty stoppage

 

[maximus__]

Thumbs up. The international symbol of submission.

I get it was hard to see, but that's his job. The call was wrong regardless of whether it looked right at the time.
They need to own up to it and book a rematch ASAP. This is one of the rare fights that deserve instant rematch.

 

[maximus__]

Thumbs up. The international symbol of submission.

I get it was hard to see, but that's his job. The call was wrong regardless of whether it looked right at the time.
They need to own up to it and book a rematch ASAP. This is one of the rare fights that deserve instant rematch.

Askren doesn't want it because he knows that he will probably lose and Lawler is done as a title contender.
Askren is off chasing no wrestling Till.

 

[Mangar]

double spacing would mean there’d be a space between every line of text, not just every paragraph

Yes, that's how everyone was typing ....

How do so many people, including the NSAC director, not understand the body-language and capacities of someone who has been rendered unconscious!

It is pretty much impossible, for someone who is just waking up, to declare immediately, lucidly, immediately rise (without stumbling), and declare immediately, that they were never compromised in the first place!

When someone goes completely unconscious, they are effectively inebriated! Robbie literally immediately rose, looked at herb with clear eyes (and mind) and rightly, gave herb a piece of his mind! Intelligently!

What confuses me is how many so-called mma “fans”, don’t understand what a guy who has or has not been choked unconscious looks like!

Discuss

The NSAC is being the NSAC. Is normal.

I said this in another thread, but these are the same guys who had no problem with Jones pissing hot twice before the event, and the same guys that wanted to give Nick Diaz a 5 year suspension for weed.

Lmao no they didnt..

The commentators who are UFC schills couldn't even agree..

Lawler was fine..

Simple breakdown

1. He would of fallen over as he was leaning forward with askren hanging on his head..if he went out he would fallen agaisnt the cage slumping forward or flat on his belly

2. Herb moves his arm..robbie moves his arm back..cant do that while napping

3. Fighters dont regain consciousness while still being in the applied choke ..its literally impossible..your either with or without consciousness for the whole thing..

4. Askren was never under the chin..you cant choke someone out without being on the carotid arteries located on each side of the neck ..

5. Robbie springs to his feet in protest again , not something that happens if youve been choked out

6. Robbie was defending a painful jaw crush and he was doing the right thing by tucking his chin and remaining low..and patient\calm any fast bouncey movements like rasing and waving to show a panicked reff im fine..could of allowed that jaw crush to turn into the bulldog choke by slipping under the chin..herb failed to get low enough to see what was happening..Refferring 101 is to you need to have line of site of the submission and the fighter its being applied to..herb was out of position and proceeded on a notion ..not fact..

Referring error should be overturn to a N.C and a immediate rematch rescheduled

Robbie went out.

Challenge: Show me a gif of someone going limp like that, that wasn't out.

I won't hold my breath.

 

[Flex Plexico]

Yes, that's how everyone was typing ....

I mean only that bottom one there is double spaced, and even then, each space kinda separates each idea

 

[MigitAs]

lol this is the best thread I ever started

 

[Mangar]

I mean only that bottom one there is double spaced, and even then, each space kinda separates each idea

Hmm, on my screen every one of em is double spaced. Maybe it's just my browser.

 

[Flex Plexico]

Hmm, on my screen every one of em is double spaced. Maybe it's just my browser.

oh- dude

wtf is going on

I think I might've been on mobile when I was looking at it

I feel foolish that I even questioned you when you first made the observation

 

[Mangar]

oh- dude

wtf is going on

I think I might've been on mobile when I was looking at it

I feel foolish that I even questioned you when you first made the observation

 

[MigitAs]

If you watch the replay, it looks like Ben went out from ground and pound, his arm went limp too.

 

[Protagoras]

Well, most people are a tad more intelligent than monkeys so that's why.

Much nuance. Such rebuttal. Very logic.