This is becoming mind-boggling

[Based Akali]

Well guess what the arena is loud as shit especially during a submission attempt and he was inside a submission hold and the chaos of the fight was surrounding him. Fighters often say it's difficult to assess the fight (who won, etc) when you're actually fighting.
It's not all black and white.

It's not about who won, if he was out, or not. It's clearly a point to demonstrate that you can't take Robbie's word for what happened on this because his statements on what happened directly contradict what we have video evidence of.

The ref grabbed Robbie's arm. Robbie pulled it away and gave him the thumbs up. Not even herb is defending what you are defending for him. This about that one. It was one of the worst calls in the sports history .Gave gave thumbs up

So the fighter that got finished from a full mount guillotine in the UFC and was bicycling kicking while unconscious on his back wasn't out because he was still moving? Robbie's "thumbs up" was less half a second of motion and initiated after Herb had already signaled for Askren to let go. Robbie was still in the fight yet he couldn't even hear the ref inches from him ear asking him to respond?

Herb gave Robbie every chance in the book, Robbie just didn't respond until after the fight was called. That's all on Robbie.

 

[andrikkis7]

I guess I don’t understand how with all the known complexities of human physiology that people can’t accept that he may have been going in and out of consciousness the whole time.

Look you just don’t drop your arm like a fucking corpse like that. It’s not normal to “relax” like that.

It seems to me that it is entirely possible that the choke was just a little bit off so that Lawler was drifting in and out of consciousness due to not entirely having the blood flow shut off.

I don’t get why people are like: “but that’s impossible.”

How is that not possible?

Well, most people are a tad more intelligent than monkeys so that's why.

 

[fightfan84]

It's not about who won, if he was out, or not. It's clearly a point to demonstrate that you can't take Robbie's word for what happened on this because his statements on what happened directly contradict what we have video evidence of.



So the fighter that got finished from a full mount guillotine in the UFC and was bicycling kicking while unconscious on his back wasn't out because he was still moving? Robbie's "thumbs up" was less half a second of motion and initiated after Herb had already signaled for Askren to let go. Robbie was still in the fight yet he couldn't even hear the ref inches from him ear asking him to respond?

Herb gave Robbie every chance in the book, Robbie just didn't respond until after the fight was called. That's all on Robbie.

Herb checked on Robbie and Robbie responded .That's completely different than a fighter kicking while being out cold. Robbie a body was not that of a limp fighter being held up by askrens bulldog choke. The moment the ref checked on Robbie and should have been aware of Robbie giving him the thumbs up. That is literally the universal sign of saying you are ok. Ask yourself this, is Robbie the first fighter to say he couldn't hear the ref during a fight? It gets fucking loud man he was having his head squeezed. He knew the ref checked him when he grabbed his arm. He responded how a fighter is suppose to respond to that. Took his arm back and gave the thumbs up. That's literally what your suppose to do. There's a reason herb knows he fucked up. With you look at all the evidence. It was the worst stoppage the sport has seen in recent times .there's no denying it. You can speculate all you want what kind of shape Robbie was actually in. But it's merely your opinion at that point. What we know are the facts. Robbie was checked to see if he was awake, he responded showing he was in fact awake. That's as cut and dry as it gets. You can't argue against that lol

 

[Blayt7hh]

He obviously wasn’t out, but that only became apparent after they were separated. I guess it’s partly Robbie’s fault for not showing more signs of life. I also don’t blame Herb at all either because I thought Robbie was out when he stepped in

But yeah I don’t see how there is any debate about whether he was conscious or not. If he had been choked out he would have fallen face forward Machida style when Ben let him go. If people just snapped back to consciousness there would be no point in choking someone out in the first place

 

[Based Akali]

Herb checked on Robbie and Robbie responded .That's completely different than a fighter kicking while being out cold. Robbie a body was not that of a limp fighter being held up by askrens bulldog choke. The moment the ref checked on Robbie and should have been aware of Robbie giving him the thumbs up. That is literally the universal sign of saying you are ok. Ask yourself this, is Robbie the first fighter to say he couldn't hear the ref during a fight? It gets fucking loud man he was having his head squeezed. He knew the ref checked him when he grabbed his arm. He responded how a fighter is suppose to respond to that. Took his arm back and gave the thumbs up. That's literally what your suppose to do. There's a reason herb knows he fucked up. With you look at all the evidence. It was the worst stoppage the sport has seen in recent times .there's no denying it. You can speculate all you want what kind of shape Robbie was actually in. But it's merely your opinion at that point. What we know are the facts. Robbie was checked to see if he was awake, he responded showing he was in fact awake. That's as cut and dry as it gets. You can't argue against that lol

You're too biased to look at the entirety of the events and be reasonable about the outcome because you want to blame Herb for all of it. I have never once stated that it was a good stoppage or anything of the sort. I'm just not going to look at the outcome and bash Herb for it when he's only part of the blame, the smaller part. The biggest part of the blame was the fighter that did everything in his power to make himself look unresponsive until after the fight was over.

This fight getting stopped here is more on Robbie than it is Herb, he had more than enough between the moment his arm fell to when the fight was stopped to give Herb something and he didn't.

 

[fightfan84]

You're too biased to look at the entirety of the events and be reasonable about the outcome because you want to blame Herb for all of it. I have never once stated that it was a good stoppage or anything of the sort. I'm just not going to look at the outcome and bash Herb for it when he's only part of the blame, the smaller part. The biggest part of the blame was the fighter that did everything in his power to make himself look unresponsive until after the fight was over.

This fight getting stopped here is more on Robbie than it is Herb, he had more than enough between the moment his arm fell to when the fight was stopped to give Herb something and he didn't.

The problem you are only looking at it from Robbie's arm dropping off Ben's head. That's the reason why herb did his check in the frost place to make sure Robbie wasn't out. At that point Robbie pulling his arm back, giving the thumbs up is the only thing that matters. Robbie didn't need to put himself in a compromising position to show more than that. He wasn't eating punches it's not an advance your position or lose situation. It's a sub. Your either taping or you go out from a choke. There's no inbetween where the ref makes a judgment call. You are completely wrong here man. I'm not making a bias call because herb messed up. I'm pointing out the facts as to why he did. Herb actually agrees he messed up as well. That should tell you what you need to know. Personally I think you either don't like Robbie or are a big askrens fan and you are looking at it from a .Bias stand point. No logically thinking MMA fan considers it a good stoppage

 

[LittleSmokey]

There wasn't a second Robbie was out. Gave the thumbs up. And was perfectly fine after the bad stoppage.

 

[Based Akali]

The problem you are only looking at it from Robbie's arm dropping off Ben's head. That's the reason why herb did his check in the frost place to make sure Robbie wasn't out. At that point Robbie pulling his arm back, giving the thumbs up is the only thing that matters. Robbie didn't need to put himself in a compromising position to show more than that. He wasn't eating punches it's not an advance your position or lose situation. It's a sub. Your either taping or you go out from a choke. There's no inbetween where the ref makes a judgment call. You are completely wrong here man. I'm not making a bias call because herb messed up. I'm pointing out the facts as to why he did. Herb actually agrees he messed up as well. That should tell you what you need to know. Personally I think you either don't like Robbie or are a big askrens fan and you are looking at it from a .Bias stand point. No logically thinking MMA fan considers it a good stoppage

I'm looking at the entire sequence starting with a limp arm falling to the ground, to a ref inches from a fighters face and ear asking him to respond, fighter still isn't responding, to the ref checking an arm and clearly not satisfied with what he still sees or feels, to calling the fight, to FINALLY the fighter responding to the ref and giving the most brief "thumbs up" in history not even in view of the ref, you know since he took so long to respond that Herb already moved to get Askren off. The way you're painting this picture makes it sound like Robbie had a thumbs up placed on Herb's face for seconds and then Herb just decided to stop the fight which is completely false.

And for the record I've never watched a Ben Askren fight before this fight and why would I not like Robbie when he's given some of the most entertaining fights out there? There's simply more to this stoppage than Herb and I'm not going to over look everything wrong that Robbie did to blame just Herb. Both of them are at fault here.

 

[Gamer2k4]

Look you just don’t drop your arm like a fucking corpse like that. It’s not normal to “relax” like that.

It's not normal to get punched in the face and keep coming forward, but nearly every fighter does that. What would you like him to do with his arm? Flex it? Wear himself out yanking on Askren's arm even though it's around his chin, not his neck? If you're in a situation where your best option is to wait the other guy out, relaxing sounds like the absolutely right thing to do.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

It's not normal to get punched in the face and keep coming forward, but nearly every fighter does that. What would you like him to do with his arm? Flex it? Wear himself out yanking on Askren's arm even though it's around his chin, not his neck? If you're in a situation where your best option is to wait the other guy out, relaxing sounds like the absolutely right thing to do.

I dont think the guys your arguing with have ever trained or grappled before..

They won't understand what ypur saying cuz of it

Robbie was doing everything right ..

It was not a choke he never went out it was on the face this picture is right after robbie put his hand down..you can clearly see its not a choke ...just a jaw crush you cant go out from that anyone who rolls knows this..

 

[fightfan84]

I'm looking at the entire sequence starting with a limp arm falling to the ground, to a ref inches from a fighters face and ear asking him to respond, fighter still isn't responding, to the ref checking an arm and clearly not satisfied with what he still sees or feels, to calling the fight, to FINALLY the fighter responding to the ref and giving the most brief "thumbs up" in history not even in view of the ref, you know since he took so long to respond that Herb already moved to get Askren off. The way you're painting this picture makes it sound like Robbie had a thumbs up placed on Herb's face for seconds and then Herb just decided to stop the fight which is completely false.

And for the record I've never watched a Ben Askren fight before this fight and why would I not like Robbie when he's given some of the most entertaining fights out there? There's simply more to this stoppage than Herb and I'm not going to over look everything wrong that Robbie did to blame just Herb. Both of them are at fault here.

Robbie a not at fault though. In a choke situation it's either go out or tap. The ref thought Robbie went out and grabbed his arm. Where in the sequence of herb grabbing Robbie's arm does it not look like Robbie responded. Not only did he respond with that arm. But with that arm he gave a thumbs up. In Robbie's position at that moment why would he assume the ref is going to stop the fight? If the ref is grabbing your arm and you pull it away and give the thumbs up why wouldn't you think that's enough of a signal that your ok to continue. That is completely the refs fault it shouldn't even be debated. You don't need to put yourself in a more compromised position off a choke that's not fully applied to show the ref more than a thumbs up. Why would the ref not be paying attention to Robbie's arm if he was grabbing it? How is that Robbie's fault .think about that one logically for a second . Just think about

 

[myjohnson9]

They did the pro rasslin arm raise thing and Robbie didn't hulk-up like a conscious human is supposed to

But they didn’t raise his arm 3 times tho!

 

[LampShade94]

Look you just don’t drop your arm like a fucking corpse like that. It’s not normal to “relax” like that.

If your arm is exhausted from punching the fuck out of Askren's face, then yeah you do drop your arm like that.

Either way, you don't stop the fight until the fighter is confirmed unconcious. Herb checked him and Robbie passed the test. But Herb still stopped it anyways. Bad stoppage.

 

[Mike K.O]

Robbie went limp while still on his knee and giving thumbs up
Seems legit
Chiesa vs Lee seemed like a better stoppage, cause Mario had a reason to belive Mike was out, but Herb did a terrible job. Even Dana said that it was a bad call

 

[Based Akali]

Robbie a not at fault though. In a choke situation it's either go out or tap. The ref thought Robbie went out and grabbed his arm. Where in the sequence of herb grabbing Robbie's arm does it not look like Robbie responded. Not only did he respond with that arm. But with that arm he gave a thumbs up. In Robbie's position at that moment why would he assume the ref is going to stop the fight? If the ref is grabbing your arm and you pull it away and give the thumbs up why wouldn't you think that's enough of a signal that your ok to continue. That is completely the refs fault it shouldn't even be debated. You don't need to put yourself in a more compromised position off a choke that's not fully applied to show the ref more than a thumbs up. Why would the ref not be paying attention to Robbie's arm if he was grabbing it? How is that Robbie's fault .think about that one logically for a second . Just think about

What compromised position would Robbie have had to put himself in to tell Herb he was okay? He wasn't fighting the submission AT ALL so there's no way he could have compromised his position any worse than it already was. Why would Robbie assume the fight is going to get stopped? Maybe because the ref is on him asking him to show signs that's he is still in the fight? Signs that Robbie ignored until after Herb decided to stop it? It's not up to Robbie to decide that he has shown the ref enough when he's being asked to, if the ref is asking you to show them something, you show them something.

You stop and think, why would a fighter that is in no danger at all ignore multiple instances of a ref asking him for something? Why did it take Robbie until the fight was being called to finally show something? If he was truly not in any danger at all than none of that makes any sense for Robbie to do at all. So the question is why did Robbie ignore Herb for so long if he was okay?

 

[fightfan84]

What compromised position would Robbie have had to put himself in to tell Herb he was okay? He wasn't fighting the submission AT ALL so there's no way he could have compromised his position any worse than it already was. Why would Robbie assume the fight is going to get stopped? Maybe because the ref is on him asking him to show signs that's he is still in the fight? Signs that Robbie ignored until after Herb decided to stop it? It's not up to Robbie to decide that he has shown the ref enough when he's being asked to, if the ref is asking you to show them something, you show them something.

You stop and think, why would a fighter that is in no danger at all ignore multiple instances of a ref asking him for something? Why did it take Robbie until the fight was being called to finally show something? If he was truly not in any danger at all than none of that makes any sense for Robbie to do at all. So the question is why did Robbie ignore Herb for so long if he was okay?

Robbie didn't ignore herb though. Why are you even assuming that he did. Robbie had his arm checked by herb and responded to the check that should have been the only thing he needed to focus on with the ref. Rest of his focus is on the fight and the moment. How you don't understand that is mind boggling. He states the choke wasn't around the neck, which there's many angles to show it wasn't. So why should have Robbie fought his hands in that moment if he wasn't worried about going to sleep? The main point of it all though , is he responded to a check the ref gave him.. that's the only thing here that should matter. Herb was wrong. As there is clear to day evidence of it now

 

[awymore]

No he doesn't. It's a submission.

If a fighter wants to defend a submission attempt by hanging his arms limply at his side and doing nothing, he's begging for the ref to misinterpret. Limp arms are the universal signal that you are unconscious. If a ref lifts your hand, you better keep it up, or better yet, put it on your opponent and work to improve your position.

 

[fightfan84]

If a fighter wants to defend a submission attempt by hanging his arms limply at his side and doing nothing, he's begging for the ref to misinterpret. Limp arms are the universal signal that you are unconscious. If a ref lifts your hand, you better keep it up, or better yet, put it on your opponent and work to improve your position.

He did keep his arm up, not only did he keep his arm up, but he gave the ref the thumbs up. Next question

 

[Based Akali]

Robbie didn't ignore herb though. Why are you even assuming that he did. Robbie had his arm checked by herb and responded to the check that should have been the only thing he needed to focus on with the ref. Rest of his focus is on the fight and the moment. How you don't understand that is mind boggling. He states the choke wasn't around the neck, which there's many angles to show it wasn't. So why should have Robbie fought his hands in that moment if he wasn't worried about going to sleep? The main point of it all though , is he responded to a check the ref gave him.. that's the only thing here that should matter. Herb was wrong. As there is clear to day evidence of it now

Because Robbie did ignore Herb multiple times, the only time Robbie responded was by slightly moving his arm, giving a very very brief "thumbs up" and then letting his hand fall back to the canvas. He was giving all the signs of a fighter not fighting.

If Robbie were on top of Ben throwing punches at him and Ben was just laying there not even trying to defend and turtling while giving a thumbs up I can promise you that you wouldn't be upset if that fight got stopped because Ben wasn't trying to fight back. It's the same thing here, Robbie wasn't even attempting to be in the fight anymore while simultaneously giving signs that he was out.

 

[Based Akali]

He did keep his arm up, not only did he keep his arm up, but he gave the ref the thumbs up. Next question

No he didn't, Herb let go of the arm, his arm swung around a bit, gave a brief "thumbs up" and then it went right back to the ground. He didn't even bother to keep his arm up. He wasn't attempting to fight back in a fight at all.