Trump continous effort to bring manufacturing back to US will have very bad worldwide effects.

[Rod1]

You end up buying a $150 vacuum every 5 years anyway. Are you really saving that much money?

Can you justify the use of slave labor for me?

And before you bought a $650 vacuum and then bought parts that costed US$200 every 5 years, plus the repair bill.

Again, its not like shit is of worse quality, its just that they are so cheap that repairing them is more expensive.

 

[MoparOrNoCar]

And before you bought a $650 vacuum and then bought parts that costed US$200 every 5 years, plus the repair bill.

Again, its not like shit is of worse quality, its just that they are so cheap that repairing them is more expensive.

Actually the quality is much much worse. Go buy something vintage, like a sprinkler or something and then go to Walmart and find the exact same sprinkler and tell me that the quality is the same. You'd be lying if you did.

Still waiting for the slave labor justification for saving money.

 

[Rod1]

Actually the quality is much much worse. Go buy something vintage, like a sprinkler or something and then go to Walmart and find the exact same sprinkler and tell me that the quality is the same. You'd be lying if you did.

Still waiting for the slave labor justification for saving money.

Dont know much about sprinklers but in most appliances quality has gone up, so has efficiency.

There are also cheap chinese brands but that doesnt means that all made in china stuff is cheap, there are Makita tools made in China and only a fool would believe they are shit, you need to compare the warranty and the serviceability along with the intended use.

As to slave labor, thats debatable.

 

[panamaican]

Well shit I didn't know they were doing this all for us.

Thank you CEO's!

Of course people are going to want to spend less to get more. That's just human nature. It's also a complete cop out to justify using slave labor in other countries because we want cheaper products. People seem to think they have a right to own a bunch of crap they can't afford and I've witnessed it here on this forum itself when arguing about whether people on assistance who don't work should be able to afford flat screen tv's and playstations. Everyone thinks they are entitled to filling their homes up with a bunch of nice shit without having to pay or work for it.

Liberals are notorious for only thinking one step ahead without thinking of the consequences of that decision. Ok yeah, we all want to pay less for things and they gave it to us. Great, now what? Slave labor, American's losing their jobs and crappy low quality products are the result of that decision. I care more about not taking advantage of poor people and I care more about people of my country not being able to provide for their families than I do about saving $2.50 on a product that I'll probably have to throw away and repurchase in a year anyway.

No one said they did it for us but we did ask for it. When we said we'd rather buy the cheap version, we're asking them to lower the prices or we'll buy from someone else. Well, they did lower the prices. They just weren't going to cut their profits to do it. So, yes, they did what we wanted in a way that also benefitted them. It's that simple.

I don't care about the liberal/conservative version of this because that's just a cop out. People blame the other side to excuse their own failure to make the sacrifices they demand of everyone else.

Your post is just another example:

1) Of course we want to pay less for stuff, that's natural. Well of course companies and CEO's want to make more money...that's natural too.

But instead of people making the economic sacrifice (spending more) to demonstrate that they value the AMerican product, they cry about why the CEO doesn't make the economic sacrifice (making less that he could) for them.

2) People think they have a right to a bunch of stuff they can't afford - fair. They expect other people to provide it.

People also seem to think that have a right to a paycheck that no one wants to pay. They expect companies to provide it. Same mentality. Entitled to something even if they haven't earned it.

But it's easy to look down our noses at other people's entitled behavior while ignoring that we're asking for our own version of handouts.

 

[MoparOrNoCar]

Dont know much about sprinklers but in most appliances quality has gone up, so has efficiency.

There are also cheap chinese brands but that doesnt means that all made in china stuff is cheap, there are Makita tools made in China and only a fool would believe they are shit, you need to compare the warranty and the serviceability along with the intended use.

As to slave labor, thats debatable.

50+ years of technological advances has definitely had a hand in making some products more reliable than their past versions. I'll agree with you there. If you look around at products that don't involve motors or a high amount of technology, you'll see that they are made from cheap materials and use a piss poor quality control process. Just walk through the aisles of any major store and fiddle around with the products and then go to your grandparents house and compare the difference. It's night and day with many of the products.

No one said they did it for us but we did ask for it. When we said we'd rather buy the cheap version, we're asking them to lower the prices or we'll buy from someone else. Well, they did lower the prices. They just weren't going to cut their profits to do it. So, yes, they did what we wanted in a way that also benefitted them. It's that simple.

I don't care about the liberal/conservative version of this because that's just a cop out. People blame the other side to excuse their own failure to make the sacrifices they demand of everyone else.

Your post is just another example:

1) Of course we want to pay less for stuff, that's natural. Well of course companies and CEO's want to make more money...that's natural too.

But instead of people making the economic sacrifice (spending more) to demonstrate that they value the AMerican product, they cry about why the CEO doesn't make the economic sacrifice (making less that he could) for them.

2) People think they have a right to a bunch of stuff they can't afford - fair. They expect other people to provide it.

People also seem to think that have a right to a paycheck that no one wants to pay. They expect companies to provide it. Same mentality. Entitled to something even if they haven't earned it.

But it's easy to look down our noses at other people's entitled behavior while ignoring that we're asking for our own version of handouts.

I'm not asking for handouts. I'm just not buying the BS that they wouldn't even be able to stay in business if they didn't use slave labor. Their pay charts show otherwise.

When you remove the real jobs from the country and replace them with minimum wage service based jobs, how are people supposed to show their support for American made products when they just simply can't afford them? Cause and effect. Corporations have become powerful from being successful on their own right but they have also become successful from lobbying and legislation. Yes you are right, we are entitled and we aren't owed anything. But one thing is for certain and that it's the fact that we are being taken advantage of. My argument was never the fact that we are owed a damn thing. The main points I was trying to make was that American manufacturing isn't a death sentence like many CEO's will make you believe and that the use of slave labor to justify being able to live at or above your means is morally wrong.

I'm on the side that would like to see this country built up as a whole. The country didn't fail and then become saved once companies started outsourcing all our work. Legislation is not in place to protect us and our jobs. It's in place to help corporations become more powerful because they are the ones lining the pockets of the men who sign the acts into law. You and I get taxed to hell and back while these guys are essentially given a pass. Quite frankly I'm tired of it and it's absolutely crazy to me that people continue to defend the people that are holding them back.

 

[Breakitdown]

No need. Keep it out of the US so costs stay down.

 

[panamaican]

I'm not asking for handouts. I'm just not buying the BS that they wouldn't even be able to stay in business if they didn't use slave labor. Their pay charts show otherwise.

When you remove the real jobs from the country and replace them with minimum wage service based jobs, how are people supposed to show their support for American made products when they just simply can't afford them? Cause and effect. Corporations have become powerful from being successful on their own right but they have also become successful from lobbying and legislation. Yes you are right, we are entitled and we aren't owed anything. But one thing is for certain and that it's the fact that we are being taken advantage of. My argument was never the fact that we are owed a damn thing. The main points I was trying to make was that American manufacturing isn't a death sentence like many CEO's will make you believe and that the use of slave labor to justify being able to live at or above your means is morally wrong.

I'm on the side that would like to see this country built up as a whole. The country didn't fail and then become saved once companies started outsourcing all our work. Legislation is not in place to protect us and our jobs. It's in place to help corporations become more powerful because they are the ones lining the pockets of the men who sign the acts into law. You and I get taxed to hell and back while these guys are essentially given a pass. Quite frankly I'm tired of it and it's absolutely crazy to me that people continue to defend the people that are holding them back.

You are asking for handouts.

No one said they couldn't stay in business if they didn't use slave labor. I said people are being childish by insisting on cheaper products and then acting surprised that the companies get there by hiring cheaper labor.

You keep making the same mistake. You keep operating from the perspective that because companies could cut their profits and the CEO salaries to deliver cheaper goods then they must ignore cutting labor costs.

It's absolutely an entitled mindset. No one is taking advantage of anyone.

You keep refusing to put the blame on the American people, choosing instead to blame everyone else - the government, the companies. If Americans stopped buying foreign sourced products then companies would stop producing them. But Americans don't stop.

This is simple shit if you put the blame where it belongs - on the consumer. If every person that buys a foreign made car instead bought a locally made car then companies would respond by making more cars locally. But if Americans say that they want the cheapest car then companies will make cars wherever they can be made cheapest. That CEO's choose to reduce labor costs over their own salary is normal.

This cuts across every single industry. Every American wants to be paid high wages so they can buy lots of things but they don't want to pay high prices for the stuff made by other Americans.

Do you buy American made, regardless of price? Or do you look for the most affordable version?

 

[Toastytoy]

I used to have a job where I travelled to factories and fixed things.

Monday morning I'd waltz into work and somebody would say, "Get ready to go to Taiwan/Indonesia/England/Central America or Pot Latch, Arkansas, etc."

When it was Asia, the running joke for me was to reply, "The hot part of Asia, or the really fucking hot part of Asia?"

But yes - it is all fucked up over there. Insane really.

I was visiting a metal plating company, and their (chemical) baths all consisted of shallow depressions made in the ground lined with plastic tarps.

When the chemicals in the plating baths needed to be changed, they would just yank out the old tarp and let all of the chemicals seep into the ground, make a new depression in the ground 6 feet away, throw the tarp over it and then bring in new barrels of chemicals.


By comparison, in Soviet Michigan, if I were to see such a sight - I could (& would) call a MI Dept. of Environmental Quality hotline, anonymously report it - and possibly be eligible for a cash reward.

omg that job sounds like heaven. what specifically did you do?

 

[SensaiRambo]

And before you bought a $650 vacuum and then bought parts that costed US$200 every 5 years, plus the repair bill.

Again, its not like shit is of worse quality, its just that they are so cheap that repairing them is more expensive.

There are a lot of high end vaccumes that sell well over 500$, Rod1 is being silly by comparing a new technology 60s vaccum to the cheapies today; it would be more realistic to compare made in USA vaccumes of today or before nafta, doubt they even make a vaccumes in the US today besides Kirby

 

[Dolomite]

omg that job sounds like heaven. what specifically did you do?

usually i just tell people im an electronics technician (and have been for the last 30+ years). that particular job title was "field engineer".

The company I visited was hoping to manufacturer a metal box for my company to put an HMI (an LCD display with a touchscreen) in. We ended up going with some company in Taipei if I can recall correctly. They used actual plastic tubs for their baths.

 

[Seano]

That's a vacuum cleaner add from 1953, that means the vacuum cleaner would cost US$632.5 today.

Do you see yourself paying US$632.5 dollars for a vacuum cleaner?

I just looked at the Eureka line and none of their vacs cost anywhere near what you claim. I just bought new vacs for our custodial department too, Nace vacs that were about a 1/3 of the price you claim, and they are of higher quality than the eureka vacs.

 

[Rod1]

There are a lot of high end vaccumes that sell well over 500$, Rod1 is being silly by comparing a new technology 60s vaccum to the cheapies today; it would be more realistic to compare made in USA vaccumes of today or before nafta, doubt they even make a vaccumes in the US today besides Kirby

1.- Indeed, but those would put the vacuum cleaners of the 50s to shame and are more complicated.


2.- The technology in a lot of things have not really improved, a toaster is still just an electrical resistance.

 

[Rod1]

I just looked at the Eureka line and none of their vacs cost anywhere near what you claim. I just bought new vacs for our custodial department too, Nace vacs that were about a 1/3 of the price you claim, and they are of higher quality than the eureka vacs.

Of course they dont cost that much, thanks to improvements in manufacturing.

Im stating how much simple appliances costed back then when there was a higher percentage of the labor force in MFG.

 

[MoparOrNoCar]

You are asking for handouts.

No one said they couldn't stay in business if they didn't use slave labor. I said people are being childish by insisting on cheaper products and then acting surprised that the companies get there by hiring cheaper labor.

You keep making the same mistake. You keep operating from the perspective that because companies could cut their profits and the CEO salaries to deliver cheaper goods then they must ignore cutting labor costs.

It's absolutely an entitled mindset. No one is taking advantage of anyone.

You keep refusing to put the blame on the American people, choosing instead to blame everyone else - the government, the companies. If Americans stopped buying foreign sourced products then companies would stop producing them. But Americans don't stop.

This is simple shit if you put the blame where it belongs - on the consumer. If every person that buys a foreign made car instead bought a locally made car then companies would respond by making more cars locally. But if Americans say that they want the cheapest car then companies will make cars wherever they can be made cheapest. That CEO's choose to reduce labor costs over their own salary is normal.

This cuts across every single industry. Every American wants to be paid high wages so they can buy lots of things but they don't want to pay high prices for the stuff made by other Americans.

Do you buy American made, regardless of price? Or do you look for the most affordable version?

You aren't comprehending what I'm saying.

Plenty of businesses have stated that they could not stay afloat if it wasn't for outsourcing. I also don't have the entitled mind set that the CEO should have to cut his own pay so I can pay less for something. I was using the graph to show that they aren't in danger of going under by not using slave labor. You're just assuming I'm making a certain argument that I've yet to make.

You are acting as if the CEO's are doing the country a favor by doing what they're doing. As if everyone out there is better off now that the CEO's are filthy rich while we can buy a new microwave for $20. You have bought into the propaganda.

It is absolutely impossible to get the majority of American's to pay more for shit made in America. It's our governments job to do what's best for the country, not for the corporations. If legislation was put into place to keep the manufacturing here, companies would be forced to reduce their American "version" of the prices in order to compete. Instead they've ran wild by using slave labor, which is exactly CEO pay has been skyrocketing. There is no excuse for allowing them to take advantage of slave labor because the consumer wants a lower price. Everyone other than the CEO and whatever politicians they paid off are hurt by it.

 

[Rod1]

You aren't comprehending what I'm saying.

Plenty of businesses have stated that they could not stay afloat if it wasn't for outsourcing. I also don't have the entitled mind set that the CEO should have to cut his own pay so I can pay less for something. I was using the graph to show that they aren't in danger of going under by not using slave labor. You're just assuming I'm making a certain argument that I've yet to make.

You are acting as if the CEO's are doing the country a favor by doing what they're doing. As if everyone out there is better off now that the CEO's are filthy rich while we can buy a new microwave for $20. You have bought into the propaganda.

It is absolutely impossible to get the majority of American's to pay more for shit made in America. It's our governments job to do what's best for the country, not for the corporations. If legislation was put into place to keep the manufacturing here, companies would be forced to reduce their American "version" of the prices in order to compete. Instead they've ran wild by using slave labor, which is exactly CEO pay has been skyrocketing. There is no excuse for allowing them to take advantage of slave labor because the consumer wants a lower price. Everyone other than the CEO and whatever politicians they paid off are hurt by it.

Why would they lower their prices if you are now forced to buy their shit and their shit only?

 

[Beechwood]

I suspect that President Trump's efforts to create more and better quality jobs in America will workout fine for us and many others around the world.

Many companies have responded positively to the President's requests for more job creation within country. Many other nations realize an America that is growing economically, helps them in the long term too.

We're in a world struggling for economic growth. The main engines of growth have slowed down over the past decade. With a new pro-growth agenda, America has a chance to get the economic engines moving forward once again.

 

[MoparOrNoCar]

Why would they lower their prices if you are now forced to buy their shit and their shit only?

I'm talking as if we are doing our manufacturing over here. Not just one single company.

 

[Rod1]

I'm talking as if we are doing our manufacturing over here. Not just one single company.

Indeed, and now that they dont have to compete internationally why would they lower their prices as opposed to simply charging more for their products?

 

[MoparOrNoCar]

Indeed, and now that they dont have to compete internationally why would they lower their prices as opposed to simply charging more for their products?

Because multiple American companies would have to compete with each other.

 

[panamaican]

You aren't comprehending what I'm saying.

Plenty of businesses have stated that they could not stay afloat if it wasn't for outsourcing. I also don't have the entitled mind set that the CEO should have to cut his own pay so I can pay less for something. I was using the graph to show that they aren't in danger of going under by not using slave labor. You're just assuming I'm making a certain argument that I've yet to make.

You are acting as if the CEO's are doing the country a favor by doing what they're doing. As if everyone out there is better off now that the CEO's are filthy rich while we can buy a new microwave for $20. You have bought into the propaganda.

It is absolutely impossible to get the majority of American's to pay more for shit made in America. It's our governments job to do what's best for the country, not for the corporations. If legislation was put into place to keep the manufacturing here, companies would be forced to reduce their American "version" of the prices in order to compete. Instead they've ran wild by using slave labor, which is exactly CEO pay has been skyrocketing. There is no excuse for allowing them to take advantage of slave labor because the consumer wants a lower price. Everyone other than the CEO and whatever politicians they paid off are hurt by it.

First, your graph speaks to the entire employer subset. It doesn't invalidate that for some companies outsourcing is necessary to remain competitive. More importantly, if your competitor is outsourcing then you can't match their production costs unless you're outsourcing also. Which mean that your product is more expensive and you will eventually go out of business.

It's not the government's job to make daily purchasing decisions for Americans (and yes, I oppose the ACA mandate on philosophical grounds). And forcing companies to produce here wouldn't force them to reduce their prices. It would raise the cost of the products since the cost of production would be higher. Again - if everyone is making their products here, they're all dealing with the same higher labor costs.

Over the years, prices didn't come down magically. They came down because companies reduced labor costs. Increasing labor costs will lead to more expensive products. More Americans would be working those jobs but the things they're buying would be more expensive. So people will just buy less shit.

And again and again, you excuse the consumer's choices. You defend people wanting to pay less. Why don't you attack that mentality of wanting everything super cheap?

Let me ask you again - do you buy the locally made product regardless of price or do you also shop for the best deal? And if you don't always buy the local product, why not? If you answer is that you are trying to be responsible with your money - what exactly makes you different from everyone else doing the same thing? And if you want those products, why are you upset that companies are providing it?

To steal and adjust a famous quote:

...I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who stretches his dollar under the blanket of the very lost cost products that I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it!