International Trump/Kim Singapore Summit **UPDATE** Korean Denuclearization Agreement Signed

[Andy Capp]

So getting Kim to verbally agree, and agree in writing, to complete denuclearization, and freeing 3 American prisoners as a sign of good faith means nothing to you?

That's not what he did. Try harder, there's someone in Borneo who doesn't know yet that you're a troll.

 

[Starman]

Yep, walking into a political discussion board and demanding proof of Obama's economic policies or Trump's lies is trolling.

Why is it trolling to ask someone to substantiate their claim that Obama deserves credit for Trump's economic successes? I don't see the logic there. The economy hit record highs under Trump, not Obama. If you want to say that Obama deserves the credit, the burden of proof is on you.

You should go to the UFC board and ask for proof that the sport has been legalized then berate people when they tell you to fuck off.

That is an inexact parallel. If I claimed that the Gracie family deserved all the credit for the UFC being the financial success that it is today instead of Dana White and the Fertitta brothers, then that would be a claim that would need to be substantiated.

Or if I said that Dana White lied when he gave TUF and Griffin-Bonnar credit for putting UFC on the map, that would need to be substantiated. I think those are two more exact parallels for what I'm asking.

 

[Starman]

I don't actually think either Trump or Trudeau had much to do with either country's economy and I don't think you failed to get the point, just that you ignored it.

You don't think Trudeau has anything to do with Canada's economic situation? OK. I'll take your word for it. I think Trump had a lot to do with the U.S.'s. I've substantiated that claim several times already. If I'm wrong, tell me why he doesn't deserve any credit, and who you think deserves more.

 

[SaiWa]

OK, great. You think those military exercises are necessary. I don't. American soldiers have been engaged in combat non-stop for over a decade. I don't think drilling in South Korea is necessary for battle-hardened troops. You do. I think many on the left and right would disagree, and probably feel that money would be better spent elsewhere. But I'm glad to see left-wingers suddenly so supportive of military spending.

But which none did.


No, you aren't. You would rather see this fail so you could have more ammunition for your anti-Trump narrative.

No president has ever sat down across the table from a North Korean leader and received both written and verbal agreement for total denuclearization. What do you think the Kim regime is getting from this? They received no money and no promises for sanction relief until they've begun the process for denuclearization.

List that "bunch of concessions" that you think he made.

So getting Kim to verbally agree, and agree in writing, to complete denuclearization, and freeing 3 American prisoners as a sign of good faith means nothing to you?

I work for the US Army as an engineer (and have dealt with Navy in joint services efforts/work). I do think we overspend on defense but training is something we don't do enough IMO.

So yeah I support our troops and my work proves it.

- I don't need to list any concession when you can read it for yourself and since you are a Trumpster you know damn well what he's offered publicly so far.

- He's probably catapulted/wasted several tens of millions in training already. Do you know how long it takes to move Navy assets to and from for training? Do you know how far in advance they plan training? Yeah u don't.. ok. And that's without NK offering any details to what they're offering.

- You will not find ONE post of me clamoring for Trump to fail with North Korea negotiations. I definitely root for success. I just don't think NK is truly willing to let go of their nukes and historically speaking they're backed out of deals before like the nuke deal during Clinton's administration. So as stated previously we still got a long ways to go before we have proof of success. Verbal/Written agreements will mean nothing if they don't hold up their end of the bargain. releasing 3 prisoners won't prevent NK from bailing but it did allow this meeting to happen which is good. So again.. once I see nukes being dismantled and nuke material taken then its a success.

 

[Starman]

That's not what he did.

You don't think 3 American prisoners were released from North Korea?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...7f9fda3859b_story.html?utm_term=.2e145c7f7a7e

Since we know they were freed, your only possible argument is that they weren't released to show good faith for the upcoming summit. If so, why do you think they were released?

 

[Starman]

I work for the US Army as an engineer (and have dealt with Navy in joint services efforts/work). I do think we overspend on defense but training is something we don't do enough IMO.

You think military exercises in South Korea is necessary for an army with a decade-plus and counting of combat experience?

- I don't need to list any concession

Yes you do, because I read the agreement, and didn't see "a bunch of concessions." Since you are making this knowledge claim, you should be ready to substantiate it.

You will not find ONE post of me clamoring for Trump to fail with North Korea negotiations. I definitely root for success. I just don't think NK is truly willing to let go of their nukes and historically speaking they're backed out of deals before like the nuke deal during Clinton's administration so as stated we still got a long ways to go before we have proof of success. Verbal/Written agreements will mean nothing if they don't hold up their end of the bargain. releasing 3 prisoners won't prevent NK from bailing. it allowed this meeting to happen which is good. So again.. once I see nukes being dismantled and nuke material taken then its a success.

OK, until then how about you just close your mouth and hope for the best, instead of using this positive news as an attempt to further your anti-Trump narrative?

 

[Phr3121]

Surprised at how well things went during the summit. Was not expecting the result we got. I do not believe NK will get rid of their nukes. They will hide them for sure. Maybe the Korean War can now finally come to an end. Little Kim must have been 'enlightened' by God. A conversion of sorts. Celebration in South Korea...

 

[glenwo2]

Is this image loading for anyone?

Get a new computer if a friggin image doesn't load. lol.

 

[JosephDredd]

I think those are two more exact parallels for what I'm asking.

But your thoughts are idiotic. Especially if you're genuinely asking for proof that Trump lies or that Trump inherited a strong economy.

 

[SaiWa]

You think military exercises in South Korea is necessary for an army with a decade-plus and counting of combat experience?

Yes you do, because I read the agreement, and didn't see "a bunch of concessions." Since you are making this knowledge claim, you should be ready to substantiate it.

OK, until then how about you just close your mouth and hope for the best, instead of using this positive news as an attempt to further your anti-Trump narrative?

Do you know how high the turnover rate is in the Navy? Look that shit up and then tell me that we don't need continuous training to ensure that we continue to be the very best armed force in the world. And sailors can change and switch jobs (so they find something they like and re-enlist) within the Navy so training is ALWAYS encouraged.

the fact that he's cancelling training is a huge concession. you can look up the rest. I am not doing your work.

Who da fuck are you to tell me to shut the hell up in a public forum? All I did was pointing out how utterly happy you Trumpsters are sucking each other's dick cause he shook hands with Kim. You're cheering about nothing but a handshake deal when everyone else is telling you that they've only just now started to negotiate. This could take a while. So yeah put those pom-poms away and simmer down ya clown.

 

[JosephDredd]

Fox News personality Shepard Smith was disappointed in the outcome of the Singapore summit between President Donald Trump and North Korea leader Kim Jong-un.

“The United States made concessions in exchange for no hard promises, stopping joint military exercises with South Korea while North Korea makes a vague commitment to work together towards denuclearization,” Smith explained. “The agreement the leaders signed is short on specifics.”


“Hands shaken, photos taken. During a private meeting, promises were apparently made. But who wanted what? Well, America demanded complete verifiable and irreversible denuclearization,” he noted. “There’s no guarantee of that. Not even words to that effect.”

Smith contrasted Trump’s results with the outcome Jong achieved.

“But Kim Jong-un, he wanted the photos, the seat at the table. He wanted the legitimacy that came with the event, the handshake with America’s president,” the host explained. “He wanted those military exercises with the Americans and the South Koreans that happened every year to stop.”

“Kim Jong-un got it all — for actually doing nothing,” Smith concluded.


“Plus, he got a promise. Lacking specifics — granted — of security for the North Korean regime,” he continued. “A regime that has an estimated 120,000 political prisoners across the nation. A regime that tortures and murders its own citizens, imprisons children for the actions of parents and grandparents and a leader that has committed crimes against humanity.”

 

[PolishHeadlock]

 

[Bunk Moreland]

So here we are,

Just a few lingering hours left for Kim (no not that one) to get his photo ops around town by the pop. And Don to wake up and realize FoxNfriends is on a different time zone so he will not be afforded a heads up on what to do for the day has approached..

I know all of you soggy bastards are sitting at home or going to your secret political dive bars for the night..

What are your thoughts and predictions that will be actually achieved within the next few hours..?

Discuss...

We are just checking this box to make war that much easier. Don’t underestimate Bolton.

 

[Seano]

This all makes sense. We cool our presence in the region and they follow through on their end. If they don't, we'll be right back there before summer is over.

 

[panamaican]

Do you honestly not think that they wouldn't have just opened another test site..?

I think there's a difference between shutting something down because you were asked to do it vs. losing it on your own and then holding it out as some kind of gift to the other side.

To make an analogy. Let's say my neighbor wants me to stop parking my car on the street because of aesthetic reasons. To do this, he's prepared to offer me the use of his backyard once a week. I take the deal - win/win for everyone.

Now, imagine that I lose my car in a divorce with my wife. Now, when I take the deal, it's not win/win. My neighbor could have gotten the exact same outcome, my car off the street, without having to give up anything at all. And if I later bought a car, he could have offered the deal at that point. Offering it when I don't have the car is a pointless deal for him.

Maybe NK would have build another, maybe they still will deal or no deal. Isn't that the reason we backed out of the Iran deal - their alleged violation of an agreement not to do something.

 

[Cojopi Extomino]

I am asking people to play their parts. The reason that your analogy is bad is because it twists what actually happened.

The intent of the analogy very clearly wasn't to represent what happened, it was to examine the logic presented. You're suggesting something be done not because it's right, but because it's easier. I displayed how this mentality leads to a downward progression and not any kind of tangible improvements for humanity as a whole.

So what's wrong with my analogy? I'm using your reasoning in a different situation, to display how dangerous it inherently is.

Unlike in your analogy, no one is on fire. No one died. The President merely said that he was honored to meet the man he is negotiating with.

And yet he had other choices that would've set a much better precedent for the future. Am I wrong?

His attempt to be congenial isn't something worth debating any further, so this will be my last response because I don't like going around in circles. I would have been disappointed if he had put his foot in his mouth or not taken the opportunity to try and build rapport. That would have been a stupid decision, putting his pride ahead of the interests of the country.

No single person in this country's words weigh more than the president's. There's many other ways to be respectful without acting like you're meeting Babe Ruth.

You are absolutely being rude if you tell the woman that what she made wasn't good.

But I'm not. I'm saying she "could do better". A 10 is better than a 9. On a scale of 1-10, is a 9 bad? No. See what you're not acknowledging here is there's a vast amount of ways to approach a situation like that in a friendly and honest way. It's a very clear example of nuanced dialogue providing a delicate landing for honesty that might upset a person.

If I can do that at a shitty casserole dinner, why shouldn't we expect the president to be able to do it during an event like this?

Have you ever been to someone's house before? Take a straw poll if you'd like, but where I come from, you would be thrown out for saying what you said you would say.

Well I'm born in raised in NY, so maybe I'm just not used to being around such sensitive pussies.

It's not about being honest. It's like those people who say, "I'm just really honest," as a defense mechanism for saying that they don't have any social skills.

Not even remotely apt. Social skill is exactly what I was intentionally trying to display. You inferring some kind of insulting tone is on you, the words I chose are very clear.

It's not a big concession because the USPACOM Commander is not going to allow military readiness to fall. Even if they don't train with the ROK troops, American forces will still conduct unit-level training as they've always done, mobilization exercises, and maintain the appropriate Force Protection Condition, as ordered by the Commander of United States Forces- Korea. Readiness will not rapidly decline if USF-K and ROK forces are not conducting multinational training exercises, and that's the only thing that has maybe been conceded thus far.

Can you show me where in the agreement this was outlined? I'm still not finding sources for the specifics.

The data I presented are facts. All of those things happened under the Trump administration. He followed the same fiscal policy that Reagan did, with the same results.

The economy was trending upwards well before Trump, and if you can't acknowledge that, don't talk about "presenting facts". You're intentionally avoiding them.

If you think it is because of policies Obama implemented, then please do as I ask, and tell me which policies you think accounted for the economic gains made during the Trump administration. It's not an unreasonable request.

No it's not, that's why it was provided to you and is readily available on the internet through a number of sources. I'm gonna assume you're gonna not read what I posted and keep asking for specifics though. Let's see....

No lies yet. Nor did you link the site. That would have been nice.

I thought forcing you to address them rather than immediately attacking the source would be funner.

Being of the opinion that the Russia probe is a made-up controversy is not a lie, it's an opinion, and one that many share.

An opinion with no factual basis that stands in the face of a mountain of evidence in an investigation producing charges, indictments and pleas. One not even shared by Paul Ryan anymore.

Ditto for claims made about what people "care" about.

So if I say "republicans don't even care about abortion", I'm not telling a lie?

The "biggest tax cut in history" is typical left-wing strawman bullshit. From pure numbers, it is the biggest tax cut in history.

By this logic, minimum wage is the best it's ever been!

Not in terms of percentages, of course, as American citizens did not pay income taxes for a majority of the country's history. But in terms of total numbers, it is by far the largest tax cut in history.

So not in terms of an actual realistic view, but in terms of only the numbers you wanna present to make a statement? No.

Was it the biggest tax cut in history? No, it wasn't. If I made 5 dollars and was taxed 4 dollars, then it was cut to 1, what would be a bigger tax cut: that, or me making 25 dollars paying 20 in taxes, then going down to 15? The first tax cut only cut 4 dollars. But the second one cut 5! So the second one is a bigger cut right?

Again, different opinions on policy is not lying. Trump, along with many Americans, think a wall will help reduce illegal immigration the the influx of illegal drugs. That's an opinion.

When the agency tasked with determining that categorically says it won't, it's no longer a matter of opinion. It's one man on a crusade against reality to appease the idiots who voted for him.

More semantics. He was granted funds in the last omnibus to reinforce border walls and fencing, and 8 prototypes for the wall were finished in October.

Reinforcing existing fences isn't starting construction on a new wall. The prototypes were for him to look at, not the start of the project. He lied.

This is just typical left-wing nonsense, as is the rest of the nonsense that followed.

Awwww come on. You tired out already? I thought you'd at least try more than 3 before giving up and just dismissing them all without directly addressing them.

No, because it is partisan distortion. The same partisan distortion could be applied to statements like "If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor, if you like your plan you can keep your plan."

Not even remotely comparable. But adorable try.

Or, statements like this, where the architect for Obamacare admits lying to the American people in order to get Obamacare passed:

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/223578-obamacare-architect-lack-of-transparency-helped-law-pass

"Attack the source! Attack the source! Obamacare was wrong!"

I'm glad you're only presenting this now so you can fall back on it in the end. Would be a shame to stop now.

Because claiming opinions are lies is intellectual dishonesty. It's partisan hackery.

So you're suggesting, what I provided showed no lies, and no reason to not trust Trump? Where do you live? I have a feeling selling you things would be real easy.

The economy hit record highs under Trump, not Obama.

If Trump was elected in 2008 and did everything the same, would the economy be at record highs? Or was there maybe something that happened between GWB and Trump that changed the direction of the economy?

Obama presided over the weakest economic "recovery" since the Great Depression. This has been attested to by nearly every economist on the planet, including the democrat shills at CNN:

Report: Worst economic recovery since 1930s, salaries fall $17,000 short
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...covery-since-1930s-salaries-fall-17-000-short

President Obama's Economic Growth Anemia
https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/president-obamas-economic-growth-anemia/

The Obama Economy: Slowest Recovery Since 1949
http://freebeacon.com/issues/obama-economy-slowest-recovery-since-1949/

Yes, this is the slowest U.S. recovery since WWII
http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/05/news/economy/us-recovery-slowest-since-wwii/index.html

So first it's "Obama did nothing", and now its "Obama did something but he did it slow!"? The intellectual integrity you're displaying is stunning.....

Again, if you think all these experts are wrong and you are right, tell me which policy specifically you think Obama implemented that lead to all the record highs recorded during the Trump administration. It shouldn't be this hard.

It's not, and that's why there were specific policies named in the link I provided. Rather than address them, you just decided to write-off the source entirely. I wonder why....

Your reading comprehension is incredibly bad. I didn't say I didn't know why it wasn't doing better. I said I didn't know it was doing better because of Obama set the economy up for Trump.

When you were younger, and your dad put you on his shoulders to dunk a basketball, did you run to mom afterwards and go "mom! mom! I dunked all by myself with no help at all!'? Because that's what you've been doing here.

I then asked you to provide an example of any policies that could prove your claim.

I did, you wrote off the source and ignored them.

Posting a wall of text is not what I asked you to do. Tell me which policy specifically you think is responsible for the economic boom that has happened during the Trump administration?

Try reading that wall of text. It explains it very clearly.

Even Trump's detractors do not attempt to argue that he is following the George W. Bush model. What policy specifically has Trump passed or even endorsed that you think aligns him with George W. Bush in terms of the economy?

Putting corporate interests of above the interests of the average american worker and welfare of our country. I think Bush is the one who made Trump salivate at the thought of being a republican president.

Neither was done. What specifically did Mr. Trump lie about? One concrete example will suffice.

You just ran from about 2000 of them. Look up.

What specific policy did Obama pass that you think accounted for the economic boom under Mr. Trump? One concrete example will suffice.

How many times have I went after a source contained in any of your links to dismiss the information contained within? 0. Yet you're literally pretending things in my post aren't there, just because you dismiss where it comes from.

That fact, and the reasons why, are obvious to all reasonable people. But I'm sure Cpt Cheeto appreciates all your hard work anyway.

 

[splendica]

Making the world great again. Sad that CNN and most of MSM controls so many minds still. Thank goodnes for a more even-handed FoxNews during times like these.

 

[Rational Poster]

Why is it trolling to ask someone to substantiate their claim that Obama deserves credit for Trump's economic successes? I don't see the logic there. The economy hit record highs under Trump, not Obama. If you want to say that Obama deserves the credit, the burden of proof is on you.



That is an inexact parallel. If I claimed that the Gracie family deserved all the credit for the UFC being the financial success that it is today instead of Dana White and the Fertitta brothers, then that would be a claim that would need to be substantiated.

Or if I said that Dana White lied when he gave TUF and Griffin-Bonnar credit for putting UFC on the map, that would need to be substantiated. I think those are two more exact parallels for what I'm asking.

This isn't true.

The stock market peaked under Obama higher than ever before.

Before Obama the stock market NEVER hit above 17k in the entire history of America. It closed at over 20K when Trump took office. It gained near 15,000 points during Obama's term. It regained all the lost ground during the financial crisis and peaked over 20k.

Trump is the first President to ever be gifted a DOW over 20k.

 

[Peteyandjia]

 

[Fugazy]

I think there's a difference between shutting something down because you were asked to do it vs. losing it on your own and then holding it out as some kind of gift to the other side.

To make an analogy. Let's say my neighbor wants me to stop parking my car on the street because of aesthetic reasons. To do this, he's prepared to offer me the use of his backyard once a week. I take the deal - win/win for everyone.

Now, imagine that I lose my car in a divorce with my wife. Now, when I take the deal, it's not win/win. My neighbor could have gotten the exact same outcome, my car off the street, without having to give up anything at all. And if I later bought a car, he could have offered the deal at that point. Offering it when I don't have the car is a pointless deal for him.

Maybe NK would have build another, maybe they still will deal or no deal. Isn't that the reason we backed out of the Iran deal - their alleged violation of an agreement not to do something.

I get what you are saying, completely.

I just fully believe that NK would simply restart their Nuke testing somewhere else if the only reason they've stopped was due to the original site failing.

What bout you?