International Turkey's Lonely Road to Isolation: The World Looks on as Erdogan Jockeys for a Third Decade in Power

[Darkballs]

Make up your mind, plebs. Your flip-flops are getting real tiring. Go learn about the concept of "Strategic Allies", and save yourselves from the real self-embarrassment.

You can have a "strategic ally," while showing your objection by not inviting said "ally" to the WH when they go about suspending the rule of law and other democratic institutions in their own countries. You can also punish said "strategic ally" for having his bodyguards soccer kick downed women on your home soil. Their isn't anything flip-flopping about that.

You don't bend over for a Turkish islamist beating your own citizens blocks from the white house just because you ally with them on other fronts. Not speaking out against this, is a fucking embarrassment.

 

[whougonnacall]

You can have a "strategic ally," while showing your objection by not inviting said "ally" to the WH when they go about suspending the rule of law and other democratic institutions in their own countries. You can also punish said "strategic ally" for having his bodyguards soccer kick downed women on your home soil. Their isn't anything flip-flopping about that.

You don't bend over for a Turkish islamist beating your own citizens blocks from the white house just because you ally with them on other fronts. Not speaking out against this, is a fucking embarrassment.

To be fair that would be sorta stupid when both sides of the political spectrum virtualy get down on their knees into bj position for any saudi visitors

 

[Arkain2K]

Are you for this "international allies" thing or not?

If you are, why would it be an embarrassment for a Democratically-elected President of a NATO member country to invite a Democratically-elected Dictator of an important NATO ally - one that's currently hosting one of their most strategic airbases, complete with a nuclear weapon stockpile - over for a visit?

Make up your mind, plebs. Your flip-flops are getting real tiring. Go learn about the concept of "Strategic Allies", and save yourselves from the real self-embarrassment.

If U.S Presidents can host their Arabs "allies", they can sure as hell host their Turkish "allies".

You can have a "strategic ally," while showing your objection by not inviting said "ally" to the WH when they go about suspending the rule of law and other democratic institutions in their own countries.

Why do you hate Democracy??

If suspending the rule of law and other democratic institution is exactly what those crazy Turkish people wanted and actually voted for, who are you to object?!

You can also punish said "strategic ally" for having his bodyguards soccer kick downed women on your home soil.

You don't bend over for a Turkish islamist beating your own citizens blocks from the white house just because you ally with them on other fronts.

That's called moving the goal post, anachronistically at that.

Since you can't actually find anything wrong about the U.S government inviting their Democratically-elected Dictator ally over for a visit in the first place, you're now moving on to something that Erdogan's dumb-ass security guards did at the Turkish embassy AFTER the meeting at the White House, something that nobody in the U.S government actually wanted to happen, and then befuddle them together into one issue.

Let me break it down for you:

- The U.S Government inviting Erdogan over for a meeting is perfectly okay. Much worse people have been invited to the White House, in the name of strategic alliances.

- Erdogan's security details brawling with Armenian and Kurdish protesters at their embassy afterwards is not okay.

For the first time ever in this volatile administration, a delicate Diplomatic situation is actually being dealt with calmly, diplomatically, and properly by the State Department like people have always wanted. If that is "bending over", then people around here have been demanding for this "bending over" business for a hell of a long time.

These same people crying about this were also "disgusted" when Trump called the democratically elected president of Taiwan because it might upset the totalitarian government of China.

To be fair that would be sorta stupid when both sides of the political spectrum virtualy get down on their knees into bj position for any saudi visitors

And that's when I start laughing at the plebs and their selective outrage.

 

[Arkain2K]

State Department Summons Turkish Ambassador After Bloody Brawl in D.C.
by Phil McCausland and Abigail Williams | May 18 2017

Turkish Ambassador Serdar Kiliç was called in to the State Department to meet with U.S. Under Secretary of State Thomas Shannon hours after President Recep Tayyip Erdogan's guards violently entered a crowd of protesters, U.S. officials said Thursday.

"We can confirm that Ambassador Kilic was summoned to the State Department and met with Under Secretary Shannon on Wednesday," a State Department official told NBC News.

And new video revealed Thursday shows Erdogan — who hours earlier had met with President Donald Trump — watching the fracas from his car outside the Turkish embassy. Before it begins, a guard bends to speak to the Turkish president. That guard talks to another man who then begins the fight.

Initial video only showed the bodyguards charging the protesters and the bloody aftermath.

The State Department confirmed that two members of the Turkish security team were briefly detained after the brawl, and then released. International law protects heads of state and members of their entourage from arrest.

Nine were hurt and two Kurdish protesters were arrested, police said on Wednesday.

The Turkish government placed the blame at the feet of the protesters, claiming that they were affiliated with "terrorist" groups.

"The violence and injuries were the result of this unpermitted, provocative demonstration," read a statement from the Turkish embassy on Wednesday. "We hope that, in the future, appropriate measures will be taken to ensure that similar provocative actions causing harm and violence do not occur."

They did not provide any evidence to support their assertion of the protester's ties.

U.S. government officials have been roundly critical of the guard's actions. The initial response from the State Department condemned the violence.

"Violence is never an appropriate response to free speech, and we support the rights of people everywhere to free expression and peaceful protest," State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert said Wednesday

Senators Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., and John McCain, R-Arizona, sent a sharply worded letter to Erdogan on Thursday that demanded he punish his bodyguards and noted that it reflected his government's oppressive tactics.

"The violent response of your security detail to peaceful protesters is wholly unacceptable and, unfortunately, reflective of your government's treatment of the press, ethnic minority groups and political opponents," the letter said.

Earlier in the day, McCain was slightly less diplomatic in an appearance on MSNBC's Morning Joe, saying, "We should throw their ambassador the hell out of the United States of America."

This is not the first time that Erdogan's entourage has been embroiled in a physical fight with protesters on U.S. soil. His security detail scuffled with demonstrators as well as members of the press outside the Brookings Institution in Washington D.C. in March 2016.

"The actions of your staff violate the constitutional protections of freedom of the press and freedom of assembly enjoyed by all Americans," Feinstein and McCain wrote in Thursday's letter. "Your staff's blatant violation of these rights on American soil is an affront to those freedoms and reflects poorly on your government."

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ish-ambassador-after-bloody-brawl-d-c-n761911

 

[GhostZ06]

Senator John McCain Wants Turkish Ambassador Expelled Back to His ‘Third World Country’
by Matthew Balan | May 18th, 2017

​

Senator John McCain issued a blunt condemnation on Thursday regarding the attack on protesters in Washington, D.C. by Turkish security personnel.

“We should throw their ambassador the hell out of the United States of America,” McCain said on MSNBC’s Morning Joe. “This is the United States of America. This isn’t Turkey; this isn’t a third-world country; and this kind of thing cannot go unresponded to diplomatically.”

Host Joe Scarborough pointed out that “these are thugs linked directly to Erdogan,” and wondered, “What should the White House do at this point in condemning it, and what can you all do in the Senate?”

The Arizona Republican repeated his call to “throw the ambassador out,” and underlined that “it should have repercussions, including identifying these people and bringing charges against them. After all, they violated American laws.”

On Wednesday, the State Department issued its own statement of “concern” about the assault on the demonstrators. The police chief in Washington, D.C. emphasized that his department would “pursue everything that’s within our legal power to hold the folks that were responsible for their actions.” However, he also revealed that “there could be a diplomatic immunity issue.”

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/john-mcc...dor-expelled-back-to-his-third-world-country/

literally the only thing i agree with him on

 

[Darkballs]

And that's when I start laughing at the plebs and their selective outrage.

What is with this "pleb" shit? You're usually a solid poster. Why have you gone full dickhead?

Where exactly has anyone here flip-flopped? Has anyone in this thread critical of Erdogan supported his associates beating people in the past? Has anyone critical of him in this thread gone on to praise Saudi's?

What exactly are you talking about?

 

[7437]

So...... Armed members of a foreign government came onto american soil and attacked american citizens.

 

[Hoosier205]

So...... Armed members of a foreign government came onto american soil and attacked american citizens.

...and then Trump invited them to the White House. No joke.

 

[Supereem]

Can you imagine what would happen if the US government detained Erdogan during his visit?

The Turks would retaliate by detaining all staff of the US embassy in Turkey for sure and even US citizrns but I am curious how the rest of the world would react.

The USA could also do the same but will have more leverage because they got Erdogan.

What are they gonna do what Turkey would do? Cry? Ask help from Potin? China?

Literally no one would help them. The US has nukes in Turkey right? Maybe try to seize them?

 

[Arkain2K]

What exactly are you talking about?

See my previous post about Democracy. And Diplomacy.

A new video revealed Thursday shows Erdogan — who hours earlier had met with President Donald Trump — watching the fracas from his car outside the Turkish embassy. Before it begins, a guard bends to speak to the Turkish president. That guard talks to another man who then begins the fight.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ish-ambassador-after-bloody-brawl-d-c-n761911

...and then Trump invited them to the White House. No joke.

Do you have a problem with this concept of Time?

Kinda hard to explain, but it generally go forward.

 

[Hoosier205]

Do you have a problem with this concept of Time?

Whoops...got it backwards. My mistake. It happened after he met with Trump. That does make more sense. The scene in the video looks very much like the violence Trump encouraged during his campaign white power rallies.

 

[Arkain2K]

The US has nukes in Turkey right?

Yeah, we got a shit load of nuclear warheads in storage there. Legacy from the Cold War.

Sooner or later, I think we should move out of Incirlik Airbase anyway, consider that Erdogan and European members of NATO are behaving like cats and dogs, plus electricity to the entire base gets cut every single time shit goes down in Ankara because Erdogan is paranoid that the Turkish forces stationed there would turn against him.

And if NATO really want to stick it to Turkey, they'd move the assets over to Cyprus, the Greek-friendly side that is

----

Turkey's Incirlik air base: What you need to know
By Cagri Özdemir | 17.05.2017

​

Over the past year, the Incirlik air base in Turkey has become a point of contention between Germany and Turkey.

With roughly 250 German troops stationed at the base, it marks a strategic outpost for Germany's military operations within NATO and the anti-"Islamic State" (IS) alliance.

DW looks at the importance of the Turkish base in the NATO alliance and how it became a contested issue in German-Turkish relations.

Why is the Incirlik air base important?

Constructed in 1955 with US assistance, the facility was NATO's most important "southeast wing" air base during the Cold War. For over 60 years, the base served as a deterrent to possible Soviet expansion and proved valuable in handling various crises in the Middle East.

During the First Gulf War, Incirlik served as the origin point from which coalition forces flew combat missions over Northern Iraq. Later, US-led coalition forces used the base for missions in Afghanistan as part of Operation Enduring Freedom.

In 2014, IS took over large swathes of territory in Syria and Iraq, prompting an allied response. When Turkey joined the anti-IS coalition in late 2014, it provided the Incirlik air base as a launch pad for combat operations against the militant group. Incirlik offers a strategic location for such combat missions due to its proximity to IS' operating locations.

In January 2016, Turkey and Germany struck a deal that allowed Berlin to deploy several reconnaissance aircraft to Incirlik from Hamburg to take part in the anti-IS mission. However, the planes do not directly engage in combat against IS.

What weapon systems are present at the base?

The US 39th Air Base Wing comprises the bulwark of the forces at the base. Alongside A-10 aircraft that provide close air support to ground forces, the US has stationed F-15 and F-16 tactical fighters at the base.

Incirlik periodically hosts AWACS reconnaissance aircraft and surface-to-air missile defense systems. Apart from Turkish weaponry, Incirlik reportedly hosts nuclear warheads.

Although never confirmed by NATO, US or Turkish officials, there are roughly 50 B61 type nuclear warheads that have been stationed in the base since the Cold War, according to the Federation of American Scientists.

Which countries operate out of Incirlik?

Excluding Turkish forces, the US has the most troops deployed at the Incirlik air base, with around 1,500 US military personnel on the ground, followed by the UK.

Germany reportedly has about 260 troops stationed at the base that play a support role for the deployed aircrafts.

The Netherlands, Spain, Denmark, Czech Republic, and non-NATO states Saudi Arabia and Qatar also have deployed troops to the base to take part in anti-IS operations.

Why is Incirlik a problem between Germany and Turkey?

As fellow NATO members since the 1950s, the two military allies have a decades-long relationship owing to their high-level of economic and socio-cultural links. However, back-and-forth tensions over Incirlik air base form part of a series of political spats that have arisen between the two countries over the past year.

In 2016, Turkey denied German lawmakers access to the air base to after the Bundestag, Germany's parliament, passed a parliamentary bill classifying the mass killing of Armenians by Ottoman forces in 1915 as "genocide." However, Ankara later reversed its decision and provided access to the parliamentarians.

In May, Turkey once again blocked German lawmakers from accessing the base over Berlin's decision to grant asylum to Turkish military personnel accused of participating in attempted coup centered on the overthrow of Erdogan in July 2016.

In response to Turkey's decision, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said authorities in Berlin will work on smoothing out the issues between the two military allies. However, she noted that Berlin is assessing alternatives to host the German deployment for the anti-IS coalition currently stationed at Incirlik. Merkel named Jordan as one of the possible alternatives under consideration.

What are Germany's options for relocating troops at Incirlik?

Germany's deployment at the Incirlik air base forms part of the anti-IS coalition's reconnaissance and refueling mission.

The German mission at Incirlik also provides extensive coordination and logistical cooperation with other NATO member states.

However, it is unclear howa decision to relocate German troops from Incirlik would impact the anti-IS mission and, even more so, further cooperation between Turkey and Germany as NATO allies.

Aside from Jordan, Cyprus and Kuwait are also being considered as possible alternatives to Incirlik, according to reports.

Although Jordan and Kuwait are not members of the NATO, they are partners of the alliance and participate in the fight against IS, making them suitable alternatives to Incirlik.

http://www.dw.com/en/turkeys-incirlik-air-base-what-you-need-to-know/a-38869196

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Trump should have been on the phone with Erdogon the minute he learned about the beating of American protesters. Telling him to go fuck himself.

Moving nuclear weapons isn't as easy as you might think. Especially to some place like Cyprus. Cyprus doesn't really have a calm history either.

 

[Supereem]

Trump should have been on the phone with Erdogon the minute he learned about the beating of American protesters. Telling him to go fuck himself.

Moving nuclear weapons isn't as easy as you might think. Especially to some place like Cyprus. Cyprus doesn't really have a calm history either.

The reason Cyprus isn't calm
Is because of Turkish invasion. Southern Cyprus is a former British holding, it's culture is very stable and trustworthy.

However Russians love Cyprus and use it as an alternative Switzerland, that might lead to Cypriots wanting to stay neutral in re NATO matters.

 

[whougonnacall]

Trump should have been on the phone with Erdogon the minute he learned about the beating of American protesters. Telling him to go fuck himself.

Moving nuclear weapons isn't as easy as you might think. Especially to some place like Cyprus. Cyprus doesn't really have a calm history either.

to be fair trump wishes he could do the same

 

[Arkain2K]

 

[Arkain2K]

 

[Arkain2K]

 

[Arkain2K]

 

[Arkain2K]