UFC 243 Whittaker vs Adesanya

Come on, you cant be fading Mcgregors striking that much? He (statistically) outstruck McGregor both times, and 30-27'd Pettis despite the ring rust. I think he is somewhat competitive on the feet, but obviously the ground is his domain.
McGregor was clearly the much more skilled striker in that fight, it wasn't even close until McGregor's cardio crashed at the 8 minute mark in each fight. Unlike McGregor though, Masvidal can go 5 rounds fine.

He wasn't rusty at all vs Pettis either and Pettis was doing fine when he fought normally with a little bit of intelligence. He then broke his foot, let himself get takendown and bordered on quitting for the rest of the fight.
 
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Come on, you cant be fading Mcgregors striking that much? He (statistically) outstruck McGregor both times, and 30-27'd Pettis despite the ring rust. I think he is somewhat competitive on the feet, but obviously the ground is his domain.
Not really, Mcgregor would kill him in a 3 rounder, in 5 rounds he had to pace himself. Just look at the r1 of their first fight. He got nutin for Conor, that wasnt skill but luck that he run out of cardio. Diaz is very overrated.
 
Besides, half of those strikes Nate landed were pillow punches and a lot of them landed on Conors shoulder and guard. If at any time he looked hurt, he wasn't it was just his woeful cardio giving up.
 
shiiiiet

i did not expect tai to look so short - i kind of thought that Serghei Spivac was a bit taller than listed when he fought Walt but he's much taller than Tai
Yea that threw me off. Tai doesn't seem to be the tallest guy anyway, looking more like a barrel with legs. Still I think the big scary Ukrainian is here to sell wolf tickets more than anything
 
Akman’s chin is suspect, there’s no doubt about that, but first time it failed he got caught with head kick and finished by strikes, second time it was his fourth fight in four days after winning three decisions and his UFC debut was the third fight in three months and he was still banged up and slightly injured from the previous one. With rested chin he might take those shots better. Also, he’s been traning full time for this camp and spent a month at Hard Knocks and a week at PI. I suppose realistically it’s still too early to start betting Akman against someone like Matthews, but I have minimal bet on him anyways. :confused:
 
Got worried when I saw the title. Thought I wouldn't get to see a grown man slam a beer out of someone's boot. Just gotta let the man finish his bacon and eggs

 
Not really, Mcgregor would kill him in a 3 rounder, in 5 rounds he had to pace himself. Just look at the r1 of their first fight. He got nutin for Conor, that wasnt skill but luck that he run out of cardio. Diaz is very overrated.

Agree to disagree here, and wait for the fight to happen. Will happily eat crow if Im wrong.

Also, look at the first round of their first fight, when Diaz came in on 7 days notice? Cool.
 
McGregor was clearly the much more skilled striker in that fight, it wasn't even close until McGregor's cardio crashed at the 8 minute mark in each fight. Unlike McGregor though, Masvidal can go 5 rounds fine.

He wasn't rusty at all vs Pettis either and Pettis was doing fine when he fought normally with a little bit of intelligence. He then broke his foot, let himself get takendown and bordered on quitting for the rest of the fight.


Masvidal has fought a five rounder (and lost) once.

Again, Diaz beat Pettis 30-27, quite clear. If you want to argue a guy who didnt fight in 3 years didnt have ring rust, knock yourself out. To me, that is the definition of ring rust.
 
Agree to disagree here, and wait for the fight to happen. Will happily eat crow if Im wrong.

Also, look at the first round of their first fight, when Diaz came in on 7 days notice? Cool.
Mcgregor knocked him down also in The second fight but anyway.. Masdival Has better cardio than Conor, Good boxing and decent grappling.
 
Masvidal has fought a five rounder (and lost) once.

Again, Diaz beat Pettis 30-27, quite clear. If you want to argue a guy who didnt fight in 3 years didnt have ring rust, knock yourself out. To me, that is the definition of ring rust.
Go listen to Dom Cruz, ring rust isn't an automatic problem for fighters that have a layoff. If anything Nate looked improved vs Pettis with some of the adjustments he made like checking low kicks.

Mas has been 5 rounds twice. Lost to Prime Melendez in Strikeforce and on short notice went to a split with Benson Henderson, no shame in either of those and more impressive than Nate who got beaten up for 25 minutes when he went 5 rounds with Benson or when he managed to drop R4 to gassed zombie McGregor.
 
Not bagging your argument because he hasn't consistently fought top 5 guys for several years but Izzy currently has the best TDD % in middleweight history

Yeah but he's fought like five guys and they don't wrestle so I would say that stat is a little off. I'd have more confidence in that if he's fought a persistent take down threat like Wideman.

In a way Izzy winning is better for the UFC. I image he will be s big star with a win, he'll set up a fight with Joned nicely, he's be an active champ, he will talk shit in press conferences. Plus there is a rumour floating that he will come out in the cage with a win, which would be a huge moment and a beautiful thing to see.

It could happen, this is a 51/49% chance fight for me... But I think Whittaker is more in the vain of a GSP type fighter. He's not going to shit talk or disrespect, he's just going to work hard and improve and go in there and give it his all. In all of his pre-fight interviews this week he keeps getting asked about the lay off, the size of the occasion, the pressure and so on and it's like it's just not relevant to him, it hasn't entered his mind at all. It's just a fight and all that matters is himself and his opponent, the rest of it just is.

I'm personally not expecting a 5 round war, I think it's quickly established which way the fight is going to go and it's over either way within 3 rounds.
 
What if Whittaker's offensive wrestling is very good now?

We know his defensive wrestling is very good, very hard to take down and very hard to keep down. It would stand to reason that in the time he spent to improve his TDD so much he also equally worked on his offensive wrestling.

He was invited to compete in the commonwealth games for Australia as a wrestler. I'm not saying that makes him an amazing wrestler but I would say that probably makes him a very good high level wrestler. Also I'm not saying that Olympic style wrestling will translate to his MMA game, but as a guy who already had very good MMA experience I'm sure it would be much easier for him to utilize what is good from the Olymic style and merge it into his MMA game.

We didn't see offensive wrestling against Yoel or Jacare, but they aren't really the guys you want to be wrestling with or taking to the ground for obvious reasons.

Izzy on the other hand is just the type of guy you would want to take down if you feel his stand up is too dangerous to compete with for 5 rounds.

From the workout footage today Whittaker looks to be in great condition, he's packed on more muscle, I just re-watched Yoel 2 and although Whittaker is in good shape I wouldn't say he looks great in there. Now he seems to have fully filled out his frame at middle weight. That means during this time off with injuries he's clearly had time to train hard, and importantly lift heavy. A key in recovery from a hernia is no heavy lifting. The fact he's put on muscle mass says to me he has fully recovered from the injury with plenty of time to spare to train, and probably also improve in terms of technique.

Something else to consider is Izzy fighting so much the past year or so. That could lead to him being more shop worn and possibly carrying some nagging injuries, but, also - If he's been fighting, and basically going from training camp to training camp, where has he found time to add new weapons to his game? Fighters always say the biggest improvements are made out of camp, that's where you learn new skills and ingrain them into your fighting system. I'm not saying Izzy will have nothing new to show but I doubt there have been any major additions, more small improvements on what he already does well.

That says to me he is the easier fighter to gameplan for, you can go back a year and see everything he has in his arsenal, barring a few new wrinkles, and prepare for it. That's not to say Izzy's game isn't great and very dangerous but it is to say it's more than likely going to be very much so the same game as his last fight.

To a degree Whittaker is coming in as an unknown. His basic style will be the same but who knows what's new and what he had to show in his last fights but due to the style match ups couldn't?

I think Whittaker is just as big a brute and power threat as guys like Costa and Romero but with a much more well rounded game, better technique and strong cardio. Whittaker for the first time in years, due to the fights that he's had, can actually be an aggressor and apply pressure. Kelvin was able to pressure and push his way into boxing range repeatedly. Whittaker is bigger, stronger, has more weapons and is more adjusted to middle weight than Kelvin. There is no reason any success Kelvin had can not be repeated by Whittaker.

For me, on paper, this is Whittaker's fight.

The X factor watching both guys fights back is the speed discrepancy. Izzy is faster, more fluid and his strikes can hit at any moment.

People by enlarge are expecting a majority striking match, and I think we will see a lot of that but I also think Whittaker will be more than happy to grab onto any grappling opportunity that he gets. If Izzy slips for a split second and Whittaker is able to grab his waist he will take it and hold on and use the position to his full advantage.

If Whittaker is under prepared or just not able to deal with the speed difference we will see a bull and matador type fight with Izzy sniping Whittaker... But, if Whittaker uses all of his tools and refuses to play the game we will see Isreal looking like Anderson Silva when he fought Cannonier. Cannonier gave Silva nothing to counter and nothing to time and he didn't fear his power in an all out attack. Thus leaving Silva with little option but to get backed up and hit with very hard very powerful basic strikes from Cannonier.

At even money, and some books showing Whittaker as a slight dog, he is clearly the pick. Izzy has one route to victory, Whittaker can win it anywhere the fight goes.

Don't agree with Izzy needing a gap in training camps to improve, for me he's clearly improved every fight despite his heavy schedule.
 
Mcgregor knocked him down also in The second fight but anyway.. Masdival Has better cardio than Conor, Good boxing and decent grappling.

Yeah, but I rate Mcgregors striking miles ahead of Masvidal. 'Decent boxing' vs one of the best strikers in the history of the UFC (I say that begrudgingly), all Im saying is the striking (in my opinion) will be significantly closer than what people are saying here.
Go listen to Dom Cruz, ring rust isn't an automatic problem for fighters that have a layoff. If anything Nate looked improved vs Pettis with some of the adjustments he made like checking low kicks.

Mas has been 5 rounds twice. Lost to Prime Melendez in Strikeforce and on short notice went to a split with Benson Henderson, no shame in either of those and more impressive than Nate who got beaten up for 25 minutes when he went 5 rounds with Benson or when he managed to drop R4 to gassed zombie McGregor.

Just because Dom says that it isn't automatic, doesn't mean Diaz wasn't rusty. There's even an interview where he says he felt a little off. By his own admission.

And yes, apologies, Masvidal has lost to 2 natural lightweights whenever he has been 5 rounds. We can spin stats either way, all I am saying is (in my opinion), that the striking between Masvidal and Diaz will be closer than what people are suggesting here.

Also if we play MMA Math as you just did by comparing Diaz 6 years ago vs Masvidal 4 years ago, In the last 2 years, Diaz beat Pettis who beat Wonderboy who beat Masvidal. Herego, Diaz lineal BMF superchamp.
 
Yeah, but I rate Mcgregors striking miles ahead of Masvidal. 'Decent boxing' vs one of the best strikers in the history of the UFC (I say that begrudgingly), all Im saying is the striking (in my opinion) will be significantly closer than what people are saying here.


Just because Dom says that it isn't automatic, doesn't mean Diaz wasn't rusty. There's even an interview where he says he felt a little off. By his own admission.

And yes, apologies, Masvidal has lost to 2 natural lightweights whenever he has been 5 rounds. We can spin stats either way, all I am saying is (in my opinion), that the striking between Masvidal and Diaz will be closer than what people are suggesting here.

Also if we play MMA Math as you just did by comparing Diaz 6 years ago vs Masvidal 4 years ago, In the last 2 years, Diaz beat Pettis who beat Wonderboy who beat Masvidal. Herego, Diaz lineal BMF superchamp.
Wasn't trying to play MMA math, you mentioned Mas losing going 5 rounds like it was a meaningful fact when I can spin it on Diaz even worse. You can clearly see over multiple fights that Diaz skillset is nowhere near as well rounded or developed as Masvidal, the Benson fight is just one example. If Diaz wins this fight it's most likely because Masvidal keeps it a striking match and cruises too much on his way to a controversial split dec loss.
 
Don't agree with Izzy needing a gap in training camps to improve, for me he's clearly improved every fight despite his heavy schedule.

His take down defence has improved and he's grew in confidence in the cage but in terms of new skills I don't think we've seen anything from him. The triangle he went for against Gastelum I suppose. I'm sure he has made improvements along the way and added things but I don't think we're going to see him shooting doubles or looking to grind against the cage, relatively speaking it's going to be the same guy from the Gastelum fight.

It can go other way, maybe the frequency is what works for him and the time out is what works for Whittaker and it's not relevant either way
 
Wasn't trying to play MMA math, you mentioned Mas losing going 5 rounds like it was a meaningful fact when I can spin it on Diaz even worse. You can clearly see over multiple fights that Diaz skillset is nowhere near as well rounded or developed as Masvidal, the Benson fight is just one example. If Diaz wins this fight it's most likely because Masvidal keeps it a striking match and cruises too much on his way to a controversial split dec loss.


So, we reach the conclusion I mentioned. That the striking matchup will be significantly closer than people think. I don't have an opinion either way outside of that.
 
Y'all got no hespect for the thread organization hierarchy. Take your BMF talk to the general discussion. EZ frowns upon you.
 
I dont usually have much to add to these threads and I am horrible at this.

I got Bobby and Al. For what it's worth, I'm fadeable ....
 
No early weigh ins. Australia still under dae old wae. 12 hours less rehydration.
 
bruno silva is a 5'4 flyweight, here is a video of him getting outgrappled by an opponent with one leg:


What is exactly the point of posting a fight that happened 4 years ago and was clearly taking it a little easy in? 2 fights after that he goes to a draw with current UFC fighter and good prospect in Casey Kenney in a fight he should have gotten the dec for imo.
 
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