UFC corruption makes Don King look like Santa Claus, MMA fighters tell ABC

[Crash-override]

It’s almost like the fighters ecstatically sign their contracts on their own free will or something.

Shocking isn't it? Crazy thing!! Shame on them for not listening to fans that make thousands less than them a year

 

[avenue94]

Are you trying to compare the “mob” now to what it was pre RICO?

No, I'm pointing out that the Fertitas were literally a mob family with relatives getting caught shaking down pool parlors as late as the 90s. The idea that they are some honorable and on the up and up operation that would never do shady stuff is hilarious.

They aren't double taxed my god. So what does a fresh signed fighter deserve with no fan base? 100k a fight? You sound ridiculous. I make 54k a yr and still pay taxes and my own insurance so yeah they are doimg ok

Independent contractors are double taxed on SS and payroll. That's how the tax code works.

Fresh signed fighters? Probably little less or little more depending on the fighter, if we are talking economically. They aren't the ones that get screwed the most by the lack of a functioning free market in mma.

Also you realize you make more than most entry level fighters while having a much longer earning window with less health costs? Counting both show and win for every fight is hilariously illogical, unless you think somehow every fighter can win and no one loses.

 

[avenue94]

That's capitalism my friend.. you earn more with demand of a product/fighter you seem to struggle with this concept for some reason

The point of capitalism is a free market and the free flow of labor. Neither exists in mma.

Also you should brush up on your basic economics if you think compensation is determined by demand for labor. It's not.

 

[Crash-override]

No, I'm pointing out that the Fertitas were literally a mob family with relatives getting caught shaking down pool parlors as late as the 90s. The idea that they are some honorable and on the up and up operation that would never do shady stuff is hilarious.

Independent contractors are double taxed on SS and payroll. That's how the tax code works.

Fresh signed fighters? Probably little less or little more depending on the fighter, if we are talking economically. They aren't the ones that get screwed the most by the lack of a functioning free market in mma.

Also you realize you make more than most entry level fighters while having a much longer earning window with less health costs? Counting both show and win for every fight is hilariously illogical, unless you think somehow every fighter can win and no one loses.

Even if they are 12/12 and lose all 3 fights that's still 36k a yr and more than 58.48 % of Americans.

And those Americans making 35/40k a year are paying there own health care and obviously taxed

 

[Crash-override]

The point of capitalism is a free market and the free flow of labor. Neither exists in mma.

Also you should brush up on your basic economics if you think compensation is determined by demand for labor. It's not.

Demand of a product and that's what a fighter is.. they are a product/brand and are in demand the higher the demand the higher there value/compensation

 

[avenue94]

Even if they are 12/12 and lose all 3 fights that's still 36k a yr and more than 58.48 % of Americans

Median income is in the low 30Ks if I recall. Add in the IC penalty and training costs, and a fighter who grosses 36K in a year is more around 25-30K net, depending on how good they are with expensing and such. Oh an don't forget health insurance since most Americans are W2 employees. Not sure in what world making under median income in exchange for brain damage and short earning window is something to laud.

Demand of a product and that's what a fighter is.. they are a product/brand and are in demand the higher the demand the higher there value/compensation

Nope. Again, this is basic wage economics, which you seem to have no knowledge of. Compensation is determined by competition for wages, everything else is secondary by a huge margin. This has been well studied.

Unless you think Andre Ward was in more demand than Conor McGregor for most of the latter's career.

 

[Crash-override]

Median income is in the low 30Ks if I recall. Add in the IC penalty and training costs, and a fighter who grosses 36K in a year is more around 25-30K net, depending on how good they are with expensing and such. Oh an don't forget health insurance since most Americans are W2 employees. Not sure in what world making under median income in exchange for brain damage and short earning window is something to laud.

Nope. Again, this is basic wage economics, which you seem to have no knowledge of. Compensation is determined by competition for wages, everything else is secondary by a huge margin. This has been well studied.

Unless you think Andre Ward was in more demand than Conor McGregor for most of the latter's career.

They lost money on Andre ward his biggest payout was 2 million and they lost money.

Again you seem to struggle with basic fundamentals of capitalism. Have a great day.

Low level guy isn't spending 10k a yr training that's not true. If they are they better go find a better gym because they are getting taken

 

[Milenkovic]

The biggest issue here is that a majority of the new talent signed is on 8/8 from DWCS, right? So the entry level salary is ridiculous, considering this 'should be a job and not an opportunity'. If they fight 3 times with 3 wins, 48k excluding all costs. If i convert that for eg to AUD (where i live) that's 73k and borderline not a liveable salary.

The problem is the narrative Dana has built around the brand itself, excusing the pay scale, and pick pocketing the media, so noone questions him.

 

[avenue94]

They lost money on Andre ward his biggest payout was 2 million and they lost money.

Which fights did they lose money on? And what does this have to do with your ignorant comment that product/service demand is what drives compensation?

Again you seem to struggle with basic fundamentals of capitalism. Have a great day.

I'd ask you what market you think is the best exemplar of capitalism and what its HHI score was, but I don't think you know what the latter is. It honestly sounds like you didn't even heed Adam Smith's warnings. Shame.

Low level guy isn't spending 10k a yr training that's not true. If they are they better go find a better gym because they are getting taken

Well see...there is thing called taxes. And paying coaches. But honestly you are better off learning basic economics before trying to grasp the whole employee vs IC part.

 

[duke_droese]

I did not.

Which market will produce better products for a consumer? The market with one firm that has no incentive to produce a better product, or a market with multiple firms pressuring each other to fight for consumers with better products? I don't know why mma fans tend to think the sport is somehow the sole exception to economics.

Somewhat true. I'll just point out that again, it's not either the boxing model or the UFC model., You can take what works from each, assuming there is enough competence. But that's another discussion.

That's not really the case. Being a good boxer is not the same as being a good coach. In athletics, those who are the best tend to not be the most knowledgeable or the best teachers because they are such good athletes they can take shortcuts.

You mean before the Fertitas used their influence on the athletic commission to sabotage SEG and purchase the UFC at a fire sale price? Or are we talking about that time the Fertitas got sued for using Xyience in a shady manner?

About the coaching, I don't mean every boxer would make a good coach.

The point is that MMA has grown so much because good/smart fighters have been forced to go into coaching and start their own gyms. They may not even be high level coaches but more gyms = more growth.

Like just in Birmingham, for the last couple of years 2-3 gyms have been popping up in Different parts of the city by ex/old Renegade fighters.

 

[neomage2021]

LOL...How many people has Dana killed...because we know Don King has killed people

 

[avenue94]

About the coaching, I don't mean every boxer would make a good coach.

The point is that MMA has grown so much because good/smart fighters have been forced to go into coaching and start their own gyms. They may not even be high level coaches but more gyms = more growth.

Like just in Birmingham, for the last couple of years 2-3 gyms have been popping up in Different parts of the city by ex/old Renegade fighters.

That's really bizarre logic. If growth of your sport is reliant on making too many broke people, that's comically unorganic growth. Not to mention plenty of pro athletes end up coaching out of boredom.

Put it this way: there's far more good boxing gyms and trainers, and that has nothing to do with fighter pay being good or bad.

If you want more accountants, increase pay for accountants. More drivers? Increase pay. More lawyers, etc? Same answer. If you want more fighters (aka the sport to grow), increase pay for it. That's how labor markets work.

 

[Tyler Durden]

If your job doesnt involve everything that comes with being a fighter especially the harm to your health long term and cte, then its not a fair comparison and you arent truly putting yourself in their shoes imo



Id never put my health on the line for so little therefore i am grateful for those that do and i also agree with their demands that the ufc needs to pay more. How many have complained so far? Easily over 30.

Then being a professional fighter is not your dream. I don’t understand why you guys have your panties in a bunch but there are thousands of young athletes literally fighting for the opportunity to be in the UFC. No one is fighting to do your shitty job. See the difference?

 

[C0NCH3TO]

lol @ sherbros comparing fighting to stocking shelves in walmart and amazon. Hilarious.

Years from now, people will look back in horror when they see fighter payout and lack of benefits under Dana, Fertitas, Ari and co. Worst thing is that most people defending these practices have a close relative (or even themselves) who work in some form of unionized job with a syndicate fighting for their wages and benefits.

I remember arguing about fighters pay with some sherbro here, and the guy ended up confessing he worked at a car factory with union benefits. Like Ford or Chevy would want to pay him 40 bucks and hour and health insurance lol. They are getting their balls smashed by unions. Fighters have no fucking body fighting for them. This is all my personal take, btw….everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 

[Tyler Durden]

What do you think a freshly signed fighter is owed? That brings zero to the table and basically is only filling out the prelims? 100k? You're an idiot if you think that and your business wouldn't last a year

What these idiots don’t understand is that if the UFC paid every fighter as much as these white knighting sherdoggers would like them paid they would fight every 3yrs and it would look like a sparring exhibition… Exhibit A- Francis v Fury.

 

[italiamusica]

It's hilarious how many fuck heads come out and blame the fighters for their low pay. jUsT gO sOmEwHeRe ElSe, not that easy when you're supposed to be fighting for the biggest MMA organization, the "top tier" organization, and you don't even get paid enough to make rent and pay coaches. Yeah they need to all go on strike and form a union, but it shouldn't have to come to that in the first place. People like Dana and Co. shouldn't be insanely fucking greedy when they already have millions.

 

[rjmbrd]

lol @ sherbros comparing fighting to stocking shelves in walmart and amazon. Hilarious.

Years from now, people will look back in horror when they see fighter payout and lack of benefits under Dana, Fertitas, Ari and co. Worst thing is that most people defending these practices have a close relative (or even themselves) who work in some form of unionized job with a syndicate fighting for their wages and benefits.

I remember arguing about fighters pay with some sherbro here, and the guy ended up confessing he worked at a car factory with union benefits. Like Ford or Chevy would want to pay him 40 bucks and hour and health insurance lol. They are getting their balls smashed by unions. Fighters have no fucking body fighting for them. This is all my personal take, btw….everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

What you wrote here rings true.

I'm ashamed of this being the primary sport I follow, for my entertainment, and these guys are trading brain damage for peanuts.

Every single owner in the UFC is individually worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

13% of revenue is abysmal. Its outrageous. I respect what Dana and co achieved with the sport but its long overdue to pay these guys. UFC fighters have no advocacy and they exist to make a handful of extraordinarily rich people richer. This has got to change.

 

[duke_droese]

That's really bizarre logic. If growth of your sport is reliant on making too many broke people, that's comically unorganic growth. Not to mention plenty of pro athletes end up coaching out of boredom.

Put it this way: there's far more good boxing gyms and trainers, and that has nothing to do with fighter pay being good or bad.

If you want more accountants, increase pay for accountants. More drivers? Increase pay. More lawyers, etc? Same answer. If you want more fighters (aka the sport to grow), increase pay for it. That's how labor markets work.

I'm not saying it's better. I believe for the sport to grow to the next level, the UFC has to be forced to be like either the NFL or a boxing promoter like matchroom.

But it's a fact that gyms increased despite the sport's infancy because of broke fighters. Tom breese started renegade here. If he had made 50-150k a fight, do you think he'd have accepted the headache of having such a big gym?

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

It's hilarious how many fuck heads come out and blame the fighters for their low pay. jUsT gO sOmEwHeRe ElSe, not that easy when you're supposed to be fighting for the biggest MMA organization, the "top tier" organization, and you don't even get paid enough to make rent and pay coaches. Yeah they need to all go on strike and form a union, but it shouldn't have to come to that in the first place. People like Dana and Co. shouldn't be insanely fucking greedy when they already have millions.

It shouldn't have to come to that? Yet did for every pro sport before them? Ok child

 

[Tyr XIII]

I’m all for more fighter pay and believe probably 99 percent of the evil shot they do

but don king is on a different level. That man is the actual devil