UFC corruption makes Don King look like Santa Claus, MMA fighters tell ABC

[cade187]

They are getting paid less. The roster is a lot bigger than it used to be.
McGregor wasn't earning millions in 2015 either.
2016 was when he fought Aldo.

McGregor fought Aldo in 2015. Also, the current roster size is 594. In February of 2015 the roster size was 560. The average fighter made 28% more in 2022 than the average fighter made in 2015. I already showed the math on all of this.

 

[Cartiac]

So what you're saying is, instead of an employee being responsible for one portion of the payroll tax, they are now responsible for both portions of it?

For the most successful fighters sure, they have the ability to maximize the advantages of being a contractor as well as the means to get the legal guidance they'll almost certainly need. But for most fighters, especially entry level ones? They would almost certainly be better off as an employee if they had the option (which fighters legally don't essentially).

Ummmmm, yea. I don't know how to say it any slower for you to understand. Half of the Social Security tax is paid by the employer the other half by the employee. So being an independent contract or "self employed" if you will meaning you are your own employer therefore subject to "Self Employment Tax" who do you suggest should be responsible for the employer paid portion of the Social Security tax?

Yes, there is a basic standard expectation of intelligence for every non legally incapacitated human being to be responsible for their own life. Other people are not held responsible for the willful ignorance and stupidity of others.

 

[avenue94]

Half of the Social Security tax is paid by the employer the other half by the employee. So being an independent contract or "self employed" if you will meaning you are your own employer therefore subject to "Self Employment Tax" who do you suggest should be responsible for the employer paid portion of the Social Security tax?

Right...so fighters are double taxed there since they pay both ends. Why doesn't matter here. You seem to be really struggling with that basic fact. Whether or not fighters are given the benefits of being an independent contractor is a whole nother ball of wax.

Yes, there is a basic standard expectation of intelligence for every non legally incapacitated human being to be responsible for their own life. Other people are not held responsible for the willful ignorance and stupidity of others.

Literally describing why laws and regulations exist. I don't even know what you're arguing here.

 

[cade187]

They mention 148 million to fighters in 2016, which is more in total dollar amount, but that's also dependent on roster size so, there's still more factors at play

Yeah I noticed that. I kind of ignored it because the rest of the numbers they posted were about 2015 vs. 2022. They didn’t explain where that number came from or provide any other numbers from 2016. 2016 was also the height of McGregor’s popularity; he fought Diaz twice and Alvarez in 2016.

There’s also a bunch of other unknowns with the numbers: are “back room bonuses” factored into that number? PPV percentages? Undisclosed fighter pay? There are a lot of factors that we don’t know.

These threads always put me in a weird position where it looks like I’m making the case that fighters are compensated fairly, which isn’t the argument I’m making at all. My whole point is simply to understand the data, and not create false conclusions to support a narrative. I don’t think fighter compensation was worse in 2022 than it was in 2015. I still think fighters should be better compensated.

 

[Cartiac]

Right...so fighters are double taxed there since they pay both ends. Why doesn't matter here. You seem to be really struggling with that basic fact. Whether or not fighters are given the benefits of being an independent contractor is a whole nother ball of wax.

Literally describing why laws and regulations exist. I don't even know what you're arguing here.

Yep, you got me bro, can't argue with stupid. You understand it all clearly, my bad.

 

[capnlarge]

Half the reason for that government regulation is a history of rampant corruption and an unwillingness to self regulate. The pharmaceutical industry dodged regulation by introducing the Pharma code. Hollywood dodged regulation by introducing the MPAA and the rating system.

IDK if you could ever get beurocrats to let go of any power they've already claimed, but if the UFC could prove out their internal regulations, their safety record, their drug testing, and they had a fighters association regulating the athlete's concerns... they could make a strong case for NFL/WWE style self-regulation. That could land with "small goverment" regulators. Particularly if the right political "donations" were made.

Yeah that is true, if the fighters represent themselves, they wouldn't need the ACs to look after them. It really could make the sport better

 

[Tyler Durden]

lol @ sherbros comparing fighting to stocking shelves in walmart and amazon. Hilarious.

Years from now, people will look back in horror when they see fighter payout and lack of benefits under Dana, Fertitas, Ari and co. Worst thing is that most people defending these practices have a close relative (or even themselves) who work in some form of unionized job with a syndicate fighting for their wages and benefits.

I remember arguing about fighters pay with some sherbro here, and the guy ended up confessing he worked at a car factory with union benefits. Like Ford or Chevy would want to pay him 40 bucks and hour and health insurance lol. They are getting their balls smashed by unions. Fighters have no fucking body fighting for them. This is all my personal take, btw….everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Lol When were you having this discussion? Was it 30yrs ago when Detroit was a beautiful, booming city?

Tell ya what, go out and try to find a job that you love that provides full benefits.
Let me know what you come up with.

 

[Tyr XIII]

Murderer and absolute awful human. But I think the point people are missing is that no one is defending Don King. Rather, the point is, how fucked is your industry if you are making less than what a boxer managed by Don King would have made after he stole from you?

well said. I didn’t really think of it that way as any time I see don kings name im on auto attack mode. You’re right

 

[Sgt Smith]

The UFC is a promotion built around talent. There are competing organizations that could also utilize their talent. If the UFC treats their talent so poorly, why don't a significant number of their athletes take their talent to those competing organizations? That would shrink the necessary talent pool that the UFC needs to compete.

They tend to complain and expect someone other than themselves to negotiate for them. Why? We tend to not hold the employees accountable for their actions, just the employers. That's not a defense of the UFC's practices. I don't know the inner workings of the fighter/promotion relationship. Only what I hear and that is normally the perspective of one party in the relationship. But why work for anyone that you don't believe values your talents fairly?

 

[Dr Fong]

Yeah I noticed that. I kind of ignored it because the rest of the numbers they posted were about 2015 vs. 2022. They didn’t explain where that number came from or provide any other numbers from 2016. 2016 was also the height of McGregor’s popularity; he fought Diaz twice and Alvarez in 2016.

There’s also a bunch of other unknowns with the numbers: are “back room bonuses” factored into that number? PPV percentages? Undisclosed fighter pay? There are a lot of factors that we don’t know.

These threads always put me in a weird position where it looks like I’m making the case that fighters are compensated fairly, which isn’t the argument I’m making at all. My whole point is simply to understand the data, and not create false conclusions to support a narrative. I don’t think fighter compensation was worse in 2022 than it was in 2015. I still think fighters should be better compensated.

You started by writing up a big post accusing the article of not being 'honest' about its data.

Then when someone busted your mistake, you outright admitted that you were in fact the dishonest actor who just 'ignored' the actual two relevant comparative years in the article. Just so that you could falsely accuse the article of manipulating the figures, when the article was perfectly clear (2015 was about percentage, 2016 was total).

The weird part is, I don't even think you did ignore it. I think you just had terrible reading comprehension, but would rather look like a complete weasle than an idiot.

 

[Shoguns Prodigy**]

I don't know where they came up with their math, but 19% of 609 million is 115.7 million. 13% of 1.14 billion is 148.2 million. As a percentage of total revenue, yes, that's less, but in actual dollar figures paid to fighters that's 32.5 million more. Plus it's already been pointed out that Conor McGregor has a warping effect on fighter pay because he's paid so much. Conor fought 3 times in 2015, and 0 times in 2022.

These articles are trying to make it sound like fighters took a pay cut, while almost everyone who was fighting for the UFC in 2015 that is still there now makes more money now. The percentage dropped because the UFC made more money, not because fighters' wages got cut.

I'm all for fighters making more money, but let's be honest about the data we're discussing.

So you justify fighters getting less than quarter split of rev by saying Conor didn’t fight? Even if Conor fought the numbers might increase but the split would still be the same. How can people justify fighters getting not even a quarter split of rev? That is disgusting, fighters need to get their head out the sand and unionize.

 

[cade187]

You started by writing up a big post accusing the article of not being 'honest' about its data.

Then when someone busted your mistake, you outright admitted that you were in fact the dishonest actor who just 'ignored' the actual two relevant comparative years in the article. Just so that you could falsely accuse the article of manipulating the figures, when the article was perfectly clear (2015 was about percentage, 2016 was total).

The weird part is, I don't even think you did ignore it. I think you just had terrible reading comprehension, but would rather look like a complete weasle than an idiot.

Do you even know where that other number came from? I noticed it as soon as I read the article, but it was out of place, and I was honest about ignoring it. There is no other info presented from 2016; it was just a standalone number. I don’t know if you know how math works, but one number is nothing. All of the rest of the data and points made in the article are clearly comparing 2015 to 2022.

 

[cade187]

So you justify fighters getting less than quarter split of rev by saying Conor didn’t fight? Even if Conor fought the numbers might increase but the split would still be the same. How can people justify fighters getting not even a quarter split of rev? That is disgusting, fighters need to get their head out the sand and unionize.

I think fighters should get paid more, but this revenue share shit is just something that people latched onto. I was pointing out that fighters weren’t paid worse in 2022. They should be paid more regardless of what the revenue split is.

 

[Onidemon84]

Not shocked in the least. Is there a fight promotion not run by scumbags who exploit the hell out of their employees? The fact that Dana White beats his wife in public pretty much tells you all you need to know

 

[Dowdy]

I do my part by streaming the events

 

[Shoguns Prodigy**]

I think fighters should get paid more, but this revenue share shit is just something that people latched onto. I was pointing out that fighters weren’t paid worse in 2022. They should be paid more regardless of what the revenue split is.

Rofl u think they should be paid more? But not worry about revenue split?

If they get better revenue split they would get paid more……

 

[Lee_]

Do you wanna be a fuckin' fighter?

Then you will fight for peanuts.

 

[Dr Fong]

Do you even know where that other number came from? I noticed it as soon as I read the article, but it was out of place, and I was honest about ignoring it. There is no other info presented from 2016; it was just a standalone number. I don’t know if you know how math works, but one number is nothing. All of the rest of the data and points made in the article are clearly comparing 2015 to 2022.

Lol. You were only 'honest' about ignoring it after another poster caught you.

What a strange character. Outright admits he falsely accused the article of not being honest about its data by misrepresenting the two years the article was comparing for a specific claim himself. But then wants to keep arguing despite admitting it.

I really hope you aren't jumping through all these mental hoops and openly admitting you have no credibility on a random internet forum on Ari/Dana's behalf for free.

And yes, I do know where the numbers come from. The UFC itself. In court documents.

 

[Keithlackney]

Sickening.

It doesn't matter what data or evidence you show either, some people will still take the company & the corporate bastards side.

Yeah like the comment above yours. First comment is a ufc shill. Imagine that

 

[cade187]

Rofl u think they should be paid more? But not worry about revenue split?

If they get better revenue split they would get paid more……

The revenue split nonsense is just irrelevant. Like I said, it’s something that people have grabbed onto. I understand that paying fighters more means a higher revenue split. If the UFC generated twice as much revenue next year, but also paid fighters twice as much, the revenue split would be the same, but that would be a big win for the fighters. I don’t know what every fighter gets paid, and I don’t know what the right amount is that they SHOULD get paid, but percentage of revenue is irrelevant.