International UK will accept Afghan refugees. Shouldn´t the US as well?

[hitcher]

Your source? You know straight from the Old Testament alone homosexuality between males is punishable by death and many Hadiths as well

The vast majority of Christians do not really care about the religion, especially Not the Old Testament.

 

[mozfonky]

it looks like my region will be amongst the first that we'll be bringing these people. We don't need more people, hell, it's a crazy shithole as it is. got nothing against those people, god bless them but fuck, why are we expected to deal with all this shit. I didn't send anyone anywhere to fight for anything, now we have another population, along with all the other no-english speakers with different ways that we have to struggle to talk to, do business with, communicate with, shit is exhausting. Fuck!

 

[4daLuLZ]

The way they capitulated to the Taliban, you’d think they’d have more in common with the French and be welcomed with open arms there.

 

[uppercutbus]

it looks like my region will be amongst the first that we'll be bringing these people. We don't need more people, hell, it's a crazy shithole as it is. got nothing against those people, god bless them but fuck, why are we expected to deal with all this shit. I didn't send anyone anywhere to fight for anything, now we have another population, along with all the other no-english speakers with different ways that we have to struggle to talk to, do business with, communicate with, shit is exhausting. Fuck!

Most people are anti-war for some time, Trump ran on an anti-war stance which was popular. But the people who didn't want war are the ones who's taxes are going to pay for indefinite welfare and in their packed schools. They're also blamed for the middle east when it was a decision made by the military and government without being put to a vote. People are brainwashed into feeling guilty and responsible for the military industrial complex which doesn't care about their input, the destabilization in the middle east was going to happen one way or another. In the same way importing people into specific targeted countries is going to continue.

People are too afraid to disagree with these decisions made for them and think they have a burden to shoulder which leads to the thought process. . . I don't mind becoming a minority in my country as long as it's done legally. lol

 

[mozfonky]

Most people are anti-war for some time, Trump ran on an anti-war stance which was popular. But the people who didn't want war are the ones who's taxes are going to pay for indefinite welfare and in their packed schools. They're also blamed for the middle east when it was a decision made by the military and government without being put to a vote. People are brainwashed into feeling guilty and responsible for the military industrial complex which doesn't care about their input, the destabilization in the middle east was going to happen one way or another. In the same way importing people into specific targeted countries is going to continue.

People are too afraid to disagree with these decisions made for them and think they have a burden to shoulder which leads to the thought process. . . I don't mind becoming a minority in my country as long as it's done legally. lol

i don't know what the general feeling is, i guess some of it would depend on each person's background. Seattle already has a huge refugee population, one of my closest friends is a refugee from India but this city has a ton of problems of various kinds, adding more to the shitpile doesn't help the common folk one bit. I could say more but really, none of it is up to me. As I get older, less about the world around me makes any sense whatsoever.

 

[surrealworlds]

Fuck that. We should have went over there smashed there country and left within 2 years. It's war, not babysitting. Fuck that backwards ass third world country with citizens that won't even stand up for themselves.

 

[Misanthropist]

All the “women this and that” crap that’s constantly shoving in our face and using them as tools to get involved again needs to stop. Afghanistan is not the West and will never embrace Western way of life. They should stay where the belong, their native homeland.

 

[lfd0311]

Why do you think that any of this matters ? This history lesson that you think you are giving has nothing to do with the question of the US's responsibilities in the present day.

It matters because having a basic understanding of history is essential to making a factual argument, which you aren't even coming close to.

Do you think anyone is saying that Afghanistan was a perfect, pristine paradise before the evil Americans came in with their bombs and tanks?
You can't invade a sovereign nation, drop bombs, kill, and displace 100s of thousands of people and then say 'we built you roads and gave you some training, so we're even'. What the country looked like before you bombed it is completely irrelevant.

You keep talking about how we destroyed the country. As I said, even with 20 years of war and conflict, Afghanistan is an objectively better position (or at least it was, pre Biden) overall than it was in 2001. That's the point. All of your talking points are simply talking points. They aren't real.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Most people are anti-war for some time, Trump ran on an anti-war stance which was popular. But the people who didn't want war are the ones who's taxes are going to pay for indefinite welfare and in their packed schools. They're also blamed for the middle east when it was a decision made by the military and government without being put to a vote. People are brainwashed into feeling guilty and responsible for the military industrial complex which doesn't care about their input, the destabilization in the middle east was going to happen one way or another. In the same way importing people into specific targeted countries is going to continue.

People are too afraid to disagree with these decisions made for them and think they have a burden to shoulder which leads to the thought process. . . I don't mind becoming a minority in my country as long as it's done legally. lol

Let's not rewrite history here, people were baying for blood back in 2001 and not without good reason. Even the Iraq war was popular as the GWB administration was riding off the wave of popularity and nationalism that 9/11 generated.

All the “women this and that” crap that’s constantly shoving in our face and using them as tools to get involved again needs to stop. Afghanistan is not the West and will never embrace Western way of life. They should stay where the belong, their native homeland.

The idea that women would've stood and fought is retarded but its also a bit silly to say that because some village women were a bit backwards that therefore women in Afghanistan want to live under the Taliban.

Even countries like Afghanistan have an urban core that is somewhat more cosmopolitan than the hinterlands and there are indeed many women like Uni students and professionals who would be better off under the American occupation than under Taliban rule. Of course these women aren't more or less the same as American or Western women but that doesn't mean they don't appreciate the freedoms they had under the American occupation like freedom of movement and freedom to work and study and so on and so forth.

 

[drstrangelov]

The US should basically have an open door policy for Afghan refugees. We asked these people to build a society that aligns more closely with western norms over two decades, and now that society has been replaced with the Taliban. Give the Afghan who don’t want the taliban in power a place to come and live a western lifestyle. We could benefit from introducing a very motivated population to the workforce in the US right now anyway

 

[Thai Domi]

We'll accept them along with whatever infections they have and we'll put them on welfare and pay for their healtncare

 

[mozfonky]

The US should basically have an open door policy for Afghan refugees. We asked these people to build a society that aligns more closely with western norms over two decades, and now that society has been replaced with the Taliban. Give the Afghan who don’t want the taliban in power a place to come and live a western lifestyle. We could benefit from introducing a very motivated population to the workforce in the US right now anyway

ya, and let a few pissed off terrorists in that door while you're at it. Go 'head.

 

[drstrangelov]

ya, and let a few pissed off terrorists in that door while you're at it. Go 'head.

You don’t think that would be worth it?

 

[mozfonky]

You don’t think that would be worth it?

Outta my hands either way.

 

[BassAckwards]

i'm going to pretend to be a liberal:

why should we take in rapefugees? we are in the middle of a pandemic with cases sky high thanks to the delta variant. states are reinstituting restrictions and ICUs are at full capacity.... we cant even take care of our own people, so why should we let them in? these people will be a burden to our economy and our health care system

 

[uppercutbus]

Let's not rewrite history here, people were baying for blood back in 2001 and not without good reason. Even the Iraq war was popular as the GWB administration was riding off the wave of popularity and nationalism that 9/11 generated.

I'm not, anti-war sentiment has been a thing for some time. That's all I said, 9/11 is nearly 20 years ago.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

It matters because having a basic understanding of history is essential to making a factual argument, which you aren't even coming close to.



You keep talking about how we destroyed the country. As I said, even with 20 years of war and conflict, Afghanistan is an objectively better position (or at least it was, pre Biden) overall than it was in 2001. That's the point. All of your talking points are simply talking points. They aren't real.

I didn't say that history never matters. But, it does NOT matter in the current conversation that is being had.
You do not need to recap the entire history of a country in order to talk about particular aspects of what is happening in the present.
A simple thing that you keep failing to understand as you try to prove how much you learned in one of your basic poli-sci courses.

I don't need to talk about the entire history of the Koreas in order to talk about what should be done today in regards to handling North Korea. Just as I don't need to talk about the entire history of Afghanistan in order to answer the question of "Should the US accept Afghan refugees?"

You keep making this stupid argument that because Afghanistan was already a mess, that that means the US gets to do whatever they want there because they left them "better off". Which is absolutely horseshit.
That isn't a "talking point". The United States couldn't bomb North Korea and justify it by saying "Well, the people were starving and it was a shit hole anyways, and now they'll be better off". They couldn't do that to Haiti, or any other "shit hole country". These places messing themselves up doesn't give you a pass to also mess with them.

And you keep talking about Afghanistan as if we're just talking about history and infrastructure---when the entire argument and point here is about the PEOPLE that have been killed, displaced, and have had their lives completely fucked. Ask them if they feel better off.

 

[lfd0311]

I didn't say that history never matters. But, it does NOT matter in the current conversation that is being had.
You do not need to recap the entire history of a country in order to talk about particular aspects of what is happening in the present.

Oh, ok. So are you in favor of Critical Race theory?

A simple thing that you keep failing to understand as you try to prove how much you learned in one of your basic poli-sci courses.

Two tour veteran, Purple Heart recipient. Try again, kid.

I don't need to talk about the entire history of the Koreas in order to talk about what should be done today in regards to handling North Korea. Just as I don't need to talk about the entire history of Afghanistan in order to answer the question of "Should the US accept Afghan refugees?"

Those two things aren't anywhere near the same. Good try though

You keep making this stupid argument that because Afghanistan was already a mess, that that means the US gets to do whatever they want there because they left them "better off". Which is absolutely horseshit.
That isn't a "talking point". The United States couldn't bomb North Korea and justify it by saying "Well, the people were starving and it was a shit hole anyways, and now they'll be better off". They couldn't do that to Haiti, or any other "shit hole country". These places messing themselves up doesn't give you a pass to also mess with them.

Actually, what I have said over and over is that despite 20 years of war and occupation, Afghanistan is still in better condition than it was 20 years ago, because of the massive effort by the richest, most powerful country in human history to rebuild and restore and infrastructure that was not there. I get why that is hard to understand.

And you keep talking about Afghanistan as if we're just talking about history and infrastructure---when the entire argument and point here is about the PEOPLE that have been killed, displaced, and have had their lives completely fucked. Ask them if they feel better off.

So JUST the people killed? Not the people who have grown to adulthood in a semi civilized society where barbarians weren't acting out the most rigid and fundamentalist version of what is already an extremely violent and fundamentalist religion? Do we ask those people, or do we just ask the people on the other side?

 

[SmilinDesperado]

Oh, ok. So are you in favor of Critical Race theory?



Two tour veteran, Purple Heart recipient. Try again, kid.



Those two things aren't anywhere near the same. Good try though



Actually, what I have said over and over is that despite 20 years of war and occupation, Afghanistan is still in better condition than it was 20 years ago, because of the massive effort by the richest, most powerful country in human history to rebuild and restore and infrastructure that was not there. I get why that is hard to understand.



So JUST the people killed? Not the people who have grown to adulthood in a semi civilized society where barbarians weren't acting out the most rigid and fundamentalist version of what is already an extremely violent and fundamentalist religion? Do we ask those people, or do we just ask the people on the other side?

Those two things aren't anywhere near the same. Good try though

I didn't say they were the same thing. The point is is that how much history matters is going to depend on exactly what we are talking about.

Actually, what I have said over and over is that despite 20 years of war and occupation, Afghanistan is still in better condition than it was 20 years ago

And you keep repeating this completely irrelevant point over and over again, which is why it is being ignored.
The question is not " Was Afghanistan better or worse because of United States invasion?" So why do you think that this point you're trying to make matters? No one is asking whether or not Afghanistan is better or worse off because of the US.
That is not the discussion. It's not the debate. But it's the entire irrelevant framework that you are working from.

Furthermore, you don't get to decide the measurements of what a "better condition" is for them. You are using your Western standards to make that judgement. Not everybody agrees with, or thinks that the 'American way of life' is the best way. Not everyone wants malls and McDonalds and iphones.

So JUST the people killed? Not the people who have grown to adulthood in a semi civilized society where barbarians weren't acting out the most rigid and fundamentalist version of what is already an extremely violent and fundamentalist religion? Do we ask those people, or do we just ask the people on the other side?

How many times do I have to repeat the thread title? "UK will accept Afghan refugees shouldn't the us as well?"
That is the question here. NOT "Whether or not Afghanistan as a whole is better or worse off after being invaded by the US?"
You are trying to put your standards on them. It is up to them to decide what they want, not on you to tell them they are barbarians, and that they should live in the way that you deem civilized.

Whether Afghanistan will be better off in the future because of the US invasion will be a question for future historians to explore. But in the present, there are hundreds of thousands of ruined lives. And a reemerging Taliban that may just erase any "good" that was done. This isn't about what is "good or bad". It's about what do we do about the people that have been caught in the middle because of our sticking our dick in their country?

 

[lfd0311]

I didn't say they were the same thing. The point is is that how much history matters is going to depend on exactly what we are talking about.

Again, I get that you think you're making some sort of deep point, but you aren't.

And you keep repeating this completely irrelevant point over and over again, which is why it is being ignored.

So when your main point is that Afghanistan is worse now than in 2001, direct and fact based refutation of that point is actually "irrelevant"? Got it. This IS the point right here. You're completely wrong, you just won't admit it because it destroys your whole argument.

The question is not " Was Afghanistan better or worse because of United States invasion?" So why do you think that this point you're trying to make matters? No one is asking whether or not Afghanistan is better or worse off because of the US.

Jesus Christ, dude. Because this was your very first post in this thread, and the point I've been arguing against the entire time.

So, it's cool for one country to invade another country, smash it, and then leave it broken and say "tough shit"?
No consequences?

It's the US's war, but the countries closer to that region should have to take responsibility for the actions of the US just because they are geographically closer?
That 'personal responsibility' sure is a slippery fellow. Never around when you need him for big stuff like this.

We didn't "smash" anything. We rebuilt it to better condition than it was in before the Soviet invasion. That's the point. IF you can't keep your own arguments straight because you're so intent on moving the goalposts constantly, then stop posting.
That is not the discussion. It's not the debate. But it's the entire irrelevant framework that you are working from.

Furthermore, you don't get to decide the measurements of what a "better condition" is for them. You are using your Western standards to make that judgement. Not everybody agrees with, or thinks that the 'American way of life' is the best way. Not everyone wants malls and McDonalds and iphones.

Yes, I absolutely do get to make that decision. Good to see that your argument has degenerated from what was posted above into "well, you don't actually get to say it's better now, despite facts". Go to sleep, little kid.