Elections US Democratic senator Joe Manchin will not seek re-election in 2024

[Sinister]

Do you even Smith, bro?


This is almost all wrong. "Feudalism had suffered greatly" is too imprecise to be meaningful, "(...) perpetuate hierarchies, they would just be economic rather than (...)" is downplaying the significance of the difference to a laughable degree, and "if a person believes in economic hierarchies. They also believe in social ones." is either a fallacy or abusing terminology to the point that the argument is meaningless.

Interesting how you criticize statement as meaningless and your input ends there. This is the most meaningless contribution to the discussion.

 

[Sinister]

I'll maybe do a longer post on this sometime. Short version, though, is that the move from feudalism to capitalism was a big leftward step. Note that Chomsky even cites Smith as his biggest influence.

To me, the more interesting thing is how the right got associated with support for capitalism, and it relates to FDR's presidency (which is when we really start seeing sorting on the left/right spectrum in political parties).

Smith was quite enigmatic and if we got into that discussion there could be a whole rabbit hole on the true scope of his validity, but I'd rather just suggest that people like Chomsky and Marx himself could have been provoked by a work and yet that says nothing of what the man himself would have thought about the issues that rose after he died. But as I see it the problem lies where even you stated that capitalism still establishes classes. I dont think it matters whether an upper class feels they have divine birthright to rule, or if it's because they forcibly (or say by happy coincidence of arriving first) assume private ownership of the means of production, I dont see how maintaining such a structure isnt inherently right wing given that right wing perspective centers around the preservation of hierarchies as THE net positive for social and economic order.

 

[brothir]

Interesting how you criticize statement as meaningless and your input ends there. This is the most meaningless contribution to the discussion.

So elaborate on what you said. Regarding your statement that that people who believe in economic hierarchy also believe in social hierarchy, well, it seems baseless or pointless. There is a broad belief in hierarchy, but people who have that also don't have any refined opinion on what the basis of that hierarchy should be. They just think it's natural that there should be some sort of hierarchy, and the specifics of that isn't pertinent to them. Then there are people who can conceptualize different philosophical approaches to a hierarchy, and if they seize upon the idea of an economic hierarchy then there's nothing to suggest that they should then inherently be pulled to belief in monarchy.

 

[Belaya Smert]

He’s gonna get Yanged

 

[Sinister]

So elaborate on what you said. Regarding your statement that that people who believe in economic hierarchy also believe in social hierarchy, well, it seems baseless or pointless. There is a broad belief in hierarchy, but people who have that also don't have any refined opinion on what the basis of that hierarchy should be. They just think it's natural that there should be some sort of hierarchy, and the specifics of that isn't pertinent to them. Then there are people who can conceptualize different philosophical approaches to a hierarchy, and if they seize upon the idea of an economic hierarchy then there's nothing to suggest that they should then inherently be pulled to belief in monarchy.

That's better.

The entire point is that anything can be used to substantiate the belief that some people are just born better than others, or that some people deserve more power, favor, or consideration due largely to circumstances they had no real control over, or say through the amassing of wealth alone (especially considering HOW that wealth was amassed as there are typically egregious unethical/exploitive practices to it). There's also the lingering factor that there is literally nothing wealthy men detest more than democratic engagement, the idea that on election day all people have equal say. There have been numerous writings throughout History of the wealthy classes (be they monarchical or not) seething against this notion. And this is emerging here in the United States where Republicans are condemning the idea of allowing the working class to vote for what they want.

I dont see much strong evidence that the belief in economic classes is independent of the belief in social classes.