Usman's performance against Burns good?

BusterBarry said:
Just kick his legs. Cejudo did it against Cruz and geoff Neal damaged wonderbread legs too in their fight
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Have you seen Usman kick though? its a sound gameplan in theory but Usman often leaves himself open and vulnerable sometimes fully squared up which is basically bait for a counter striker, Geoff Neal as I have learned although maybe not ranked high or in high regard is a dangerous opponent
Usman sometimes falls into the category of reverting to your base which isnt striking in big moments and he looks sloppy my biggest argument is that the only person I can see now dethroning is a WB
 
snaportap21 said:
cause wonderboy had the takedown threat? you're right. he was too stupid to get to that level over a single training camp.
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Rory didn't use any TD threat. Just alot of feints. You would think it would be easily to copy such a gameplan by elite fighters and their camp. But I took 3 title defenses and Usman and Henri Hooft to figure this out lol

MMA camps and fighters lack alot in the strategy departement
 
Willy Knuckles said:
How was Woodley his worst matchup possible? Explain a lil instead of just doin the classic sherbro blanket statement
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Sure.

Woodley was, at the time, a killer of southpaws. Wonderboy, while he switches stances a lot, likes to stay in a southpaw stance for extended periods of time. This matched up badly against Woodley.
Wonderboy has historically done extremely well against pure strikers, i.e. Neal, Luque. (Pettis was as close to a fluke as anything I have seen in the octagon). Woodley had a real explosive takedown threat, and we saw how well he did on the ground against WB. This negated a lot of WB's offense, because he was worried about letting his hands and kicks go because of the TD threat. Woodley was also catching leg kicks and countering very well, so again, that made it hard for WB to throw kicks, and by extension set up his hands.

Woodley had fast, explosive striking, and was able to catch WB on several occasions in ways that other high level strikers couldn't. This combination of TD threat, good game planning for WB's style, and explosive striking was the perfect combination to beat WB, and we haven't seen it replicated since.
 
BusterBarry said:
Rory didn't use any TD threat. Just alot of feints. You would think it would be easily to copy such a gameplan by elite fighters and their camp. But I took 3 title defenses and Usman and Henri Hooft to figure this out lol

MMA camps and fighters lack alot in the strategy departement
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But fighter body shapes, tendencies etc have to be taken into account you cant just replicate a performance since it is a completely different dynamic every fight.
Different mentalities going in, different skill sets, body types and the list goes on and on
Yes I know some people have had a blueprint laid and people can copy like Pettis with the wrestling but it isnt common
 
Mug said:
I hear a lot of commentators talking about Usman excelling fight to fight which yes he is finishing his opponents including Burns but watching that fight Burns was catching Usman a lot to the point Usman looked quite amateur looking away; punching him to the point he was looking at the floor.
I kept thinking if Burns was maybe a more savvy striker he would of known to follow up with combos which wouldve landed every single time
Saying this I can only see Wonderboy giving Usman some problems
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if burns had more fight iq and better fight patience, he has a higher chance of winning that fight, he jumped on usman looking to put usman out. He also laid on his back for two mins. I like usman but I wanted burns to win because I like burns story and I wanted him to win one. Seems like a great guy. No ego.

But it was a great performance. I think its more of a quality win than masvidal. The masvidal finish was great, but the match itself wasn't his best performance. Dude was loading up punches and he wasn't doing what usman normally wanted to do in that fight, didn't commit to the wrestling much at all or in the clinch. He wanted to show he had hands and respect for him for that. It's a signature performance because of the name and the finish.

But the burns win to me is overall better in terms of quality.
 
Mug said:
But fighter body shapes, tendencies etc have to be taken into account you cant just replicate a performance since it is a completely different dynamic every fight.
Different mentalities going in, different skill sets, body types and the list goes on and on
Yes I know some people have had a blueprint laid and people can copy like Pettis with the wrestling but it isnt common
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Burns copied Usman in his fight against Woodley and they have way different body types and tendencies.

When a fighter like Woodly has such obvious flaws it's incumbent upon you as the opponent to ruthlessly abuse those flaws even if it means changing up your style for 1 fight camp. That wonderbread did not do this is an indictment upon him, his trainers and his camp!
 
Chael_Sonnen said:
Sure.

Woodley was, at the time, a killer of southpaws. Wonderboy, while he switches stances a lot, likes to stay in a southpaw stance for extended periods of time. This matched up badly against Woodley.
Wonderboy has historically done extremely well against pure strikers, i.e. Neal, Luque. (Pettis was as close to a fluke as anything I have seen in the octagon). Woodley had a real explosive takedown threat, and we saw how well he did on the ground against WB. This negated a lot of WB's offense, because he was worried about letting his hands and kicks go because of the TD threat. Woodley was also catching leg kicks and countering very well, so again, that made it hard for WB to throw kicks, and by extension set up his hands.

Woodley had fast, explosive striking, and was able to catch WB on several occasions in ways that other high level strikers couldn't. This combination of TD threat, good game planning for WB's style, and explosive striking was the perfect combination to beat WB, and we haven't seen it replicated since.
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Solid explanation cant lie
 
Peli said:
if burns had more fight iq and better fight patience, he has a higher chance of winning that fight, he jumped on usman looking to put usman out. He also laid on his back for two mins. I like usman but I wanted burns to win because I like burns story and I wanted him to win one. Seems like a great guy. No ego.

But it was a great performance. I think its more of a quality win than masvidal. The masvidal finish was great, but the match itself wasn't his best performance. Dude was loading up punches and he wasn't doing what usman normally wanted to do in that fight, didn't commit to the wrestling much at all or in the clinch. He wanted to show he had hands and respect for him for that. It's a signature performance because of the name and the finish.

But the burns win to me is overall better in terms of quality.
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I agree I dont really see the second win over Masvidal a great win, even though Im a fan of Masvidal because I feel like I have seen him lose so many decisions he shouldve won, but, this isn't a particularly marquee win, Masvidal is old etc but I dont want it to seem like I am discrediting Usman but Masvidal looked nervous and scared in there; very jumpy.
But burns, when they fought looked very good really hurt Usman maybe not close to the KO but really had Usman in bother which he rallied from as Burns faded
This all being said WW seems to be the strongest weakest division lol there seems to be so many killers but no real threats atm
 
BusterBarry said:
Burns copied Usman in his fight against Woodley and they have way different body types and tendencies.

When a fighter like Woodly has such obvious flaws it's incumbent upon you as the opponent to ruthlessly abuse those flaws even if it means changing up your style for 1 fight camp. That wonderbread did not do this is an indictment upon him, his trainers and his camp!
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Wait huh? I dont see in any way Burns copied Woodley in his approach
 
That was Usman's second big eye opening performance for me, the first being the Woodley fight. I picked Usman to lose that fight due to his sloppy striking and reliance on chin combined with Gilbert's power punching. Usman has those sloppy tendencies to this day, and his athleticism is a big part of his success, but his ability to adapt is very impressive.
 
Mug said:
I agree I dont really see the second win over Masvidal a great win, even though Im a fan of Masvidal because I feel like I have seen him lose so many decisions he shouldve won, but, this isn't a particularly marquee win, Masvidal is old etc but I dont want it to seem like I am discrediting Usman but Masvidal looked nervous and scared in there; very jumpy.
But burns, when they fought looked very good really hurt Usman maybe not close to the KO but really had Usman in bother which he rallied from as Burns faded
This all being said WW seems to be the strongest weakest division lol there seems to be so many killers but no real threats atm
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Yeah, masvidal looked like he didn't belong in either of the fights. Usman beat him and people really had no interest in seeing the second fight. Masvidal vs Usman 2 was more of 'Give the fans what the want, not what they ask for', because the finish paid off for it in the end, but people were more excited about the wmma matches oddly enough. Everyone thought masvidal was going to lose especially in the second fight. People hoped nasvidal would win in the first, but yeah it's not better quality than burns. Burns was a submission specialist with power. It was an far more interesting match up on paper.
 
Peli said:
Yeah, masvidal looke dlike he didn't belong in either of the fights. Usman beat him and people really had no interest in seeing the second fight. Masvidal vs Usman 2 was more of Give the fans what the want, not what they ask for, because the finish paid off for it in the end, but people were more excited about the wmma matches oddly enough. Everyone thought masvidal was going to lose especially in the second fight. People hoped he win in the first, but yeah it's not better quality than burns. Burns was a submission specialists with power. It was an far more interesting match up on paper.
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Exactly it was a strange one noone really thought Masvidal would win he was doomed and now you say it i really was more hyped for Schevchenko to put on a beating and see the the rose outcome
 
Mug said:
Exactly it was a strange one noone really thought Masvidal would win he was doomed and now you say it i really was more hyped for Schevchenko to put on a beating and see the the rose outcome
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Yeah, I thought it was a going to be another boring decision because masvidal has never been finished inside of the UFC, had no interest in it and I''m sure many shared my sentiments but when the press conference with the crowd came around, I got hyped for the fight lol. The energy of the crowd at the press conference got me hooked into seeing it.

 
BusterBarry said:
Right and he does this by planting his ass against the cage and winging a right hand like always?

Lol
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Yes, a "winging" right like this, but when Woodley connects it's a different outcome.
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He beat his ass in 11 minutes, I guess that’s good.
 
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