Vegans protest outside restaurant; chef responds in kind

[phisherman]

Question to the vegans.

Would you eat meat if it was lab grown?

 

[AshiharaFan]

Some vegan children are dying because of the lack of vitamine B. Do you know that a vegan has to take a supplement of vitamine B.

Nothing is perfect on just one side!!

EVERYONE has to take vitamin B12, meat eaters and non meat eaters alike. This is a misunderstanding many people have that I try to address whenever it comes up.

 

[Sanctus]

Who told you this? I would like to have a discussion with whoever fed you that lie. We absolutely DO NOT have to consume animal life to live.



For two simple reasons. First reason is that ants aren't that different than me as a human being. They are born, they belong to communities, they eat and they defend themselves when attacked which shows that they DO have feelings such as the feeling of self preservation. More importantly ants (just like bees, deer, fish, birds, cats, pigs, dogs, cows, YOU and ME) have THE RIGHT AS SENTIENT ORGANISMS to live. Second reason is because plant sources and the human digestive system are designed for each other just like a sock is designed for a foot, how a glove is designed for a hand and how male and female sex organs are designed for each other. The human digestion system IS NOT designed to eat meat.



I know three things. One, I know that PLANTS are said to react to sound. Two, know that, botanically speaking, fruits are seed bearing structures that develop within the ovary of flowering plants and vegetables are plant parts such as roots, leaves and stems. Plant parts, not plants. Third, I know a PLANT can react to sounds as long as it is a live plant still connected by it's roots into the soil. A plant stem or plant leaf is not a living thing with a brain and central nervous system so NO that broccoli DOES NOT hear, sense or feel me chewing it.



I never accused you of saying that. I said that many meat eaters take that position via the "which is more popular" game. You DID, however, make the statement about them acting superior.



Why would that be hard to understand? These are things that all human beings should do regardless of the subject matter. But please understand that there are JUST AS MANY meat eaters who don't respect others, who cannot pass a message without insults and who feel and act superior. You keep focusing one group of people when the other group is guilty of the same things. Case in point is your post below:



What did you say a minute ago about not insulting others?

And based upon experience people usually resort to insults when they have no rational argument to present.

But to answer your question, YES I read that but that is not a valid scapegoat. I can say the same thing if I were an adulterous husband. Either I love my wife enough to not be an adulterer or not. It's silly to play that "I'm a man who has flaws" game because that merely becomes a scapegoat and a means for a person to shield what they know to be not so great behavior.

I said life, not just animal life. And no matter how much you try to go arround finding validations for your choices, a plant is a living thing. We feed on life. Plants or animals, it's life!

Second, the main diference to me is the nervous system and how developed it is. A cow is different from an ant. Simple.
Plants have the right to live too and grow. And now we enter the philosofical spectrum.

Calling someone arrogant is not necessarly an insult. It may just be a fact which is the case.

What you say about our digestive sistem is a pure lie. And that is the problem with vegans. You invent things to impose your choises on others. Do you know that manking would not have evolved as much if it was not for us to eat meat. I can show you studies on that but can you prove to me that we are natural vegans as humans??

And to be aware of ones flaws is one of the most important think on a person. Maybe you should take a hard look in the mirror and you will find that not eating animals does not make you perfect. It's part of your personality but you, as all of us, are imperfect.

 

[Sanctus]

Was is the key word. She's a different person than the person you fell in love with.

You're doing the best you can to salvage the relationship but you can't give everything up for it.

And the worst part is that everybody is talking about health but her health has actually got worse. She has problems on the bones that she never had. She has tendinites and she lost amost 20 ponds. She actually has less fat on her then she should and the doctors told her that allready!!

Since I love her, even if she is not with me I just want for her to be the best she can be. Above all, I am her friend and I want the best for her. That is why I supported her on the beggining but now, I just don't talk about that anymore

 

[Sanctus]

EVERYONE has to take vitamin B12, meat eaters and non meat eaters alike. This is a misunderstanding many people have that I try to address whenever it comes up.

Yes, but vitamin B12 is present on meat and is practically nonexistent on vegetables. That is why she has to take a supplement every day.
Dude I seem to know more about veganism that you!!

 

[Bull Terrier]

Can I ask if the vast majority of a person's diet is plant based and it's healthy for him does that not demonstrate that plant based is healthier as a dietary choice? And if it is how much more healthier can that person be if she/he went completely plant based?



Do you by chance have the link to that article? This is intriguing and I would love to read it myself. I know that I do not (and probably cannot) know all that there is to know about this subject so I am always open to reading any and everything on the subject matter.

That is any interesting question, it does seem from the reading I have done recently that a whole foods vegan diet is one of, if not the healthiest diet a person can follow.

Regarding a link to the article I'm afraid not as it was some time ago I read it, but it was about "the French paradox" if I remember rightly, or something along those lines.

 

[PubliusVentidius]

Question to the vegans.

Would you eat meat if it was lab grown?

I wouldn't. I think you are assuming that most vegetarians miss the taste of meat, which I don't think they do (I know I don't).

 

[PubliusVentidius]

Let's see the other way arround. Eating meat is trivially easy to do. If she is not willing to do that for her marriege it means she loves animals more than me!! Cant you see it works both ways??

And I have never demanded her to eat meat or any other thing. She can do whatever she wants.
If being a vegan is her first demand in a man, then definitly I am not the right guy for her.

I just hope for her to be happy with whoever she ends up to be with

Her ethical standing is better than yours, it's like if some guy asks another guy to please stop polluting the area and the other guy is like ''why don't you start polluting it too instead?''. There's no equivalence to be drawn here, don't fool yourself.

 

[phisherman]

I wouldn't. I think you are assuming that most vegetarians miss the taste of meat, which I don't think they do (I know I don't).

No I'm assuming they don't eat meat because it involves killing animals.

If meat is grown then you would be ethically ok to eat it though right?

 

[AshiharaFan]

I said life, not just animal life. And no matter how much you try to go arround finding validations for your choices, a plant is a living thing. We feed on life. Plants or animals, it's life!

Absolutely NONE OF THIS invalidates or refutes the facts I pointed about the differences between fruits, vegetables and PLANTS. You didn't address this part of my post at all.

Second, the main diference to me is the nervous system and how developed it is. A cow is different from an ant. Simple.
Plants have the right to live too and grow. And now we enter the philosofical spectrum.

No, we're not entering any sort of philosophical discussion because I already pointed out the differences between living plants and the PARTS of NON LIVING plants. Those are botanical facts. Plain and simple.

Calling someone arrogant is not necessarly an insult. It may just be a fact which is the case.

Not the case at all because you absolutely cannot show any arrogance on my part in my interaction with you itt. Had I insulted you and said that it was not an insult I was merely stating a fact you would not accept that and you know it. You're getting testy which is why the insults are being hurled by you.

What you say about our digestive sistem is a pure lie. And that is the problem with vegans.

WRONG!! It is a fact, one which you are obviously unaware of just as you proved that you are unaware of the FACT that the risk of B12 deficiency is equal between meat eaters and non meat eaters and that almost everything that meat eaters (and non meat eaters in the case of shared food sources) eat are fortified with B12. Education, education, education. If you don't know then you don't know.

You invent things to impose your choises on others. Do you know that manking would not have evolved as much if it was not for us to eat meat.

Please point out to me ONE THING that I have invented. Just one. There is nothing that I said that I cannot back up with proof. However, here's the real problem with my proof......

I can show you studies on that but can you prove to me that we are natural vegans as humans??

That's not the question you should be asking. The question you aren't asking is can I CONVINCE you (even with all the scientific studies available to prove my position) that we are natural vegans as humans? The answer is obviously no because your position on the matter is clear and already etched into your psyche. Nothing that I or anyone else can say, do, demonstrate or show you will get you to change your position. So can I PROVE it? Yes, I can. Will it CONVINCE you? Of course not. Your mind is already made up.

And to be aware of ones flaws is one of the most important think on a person. Maybe you should take a hard look in the mirror and you will find that not eating animals does not make you perfect. It's part of your personality but you, as all of us, are imperfect.

You had your guns blazing with me from the start. I wonder what nerve I touched when I entered this discussion with you. Good luck in finding any part of my posts where I claim to be perfect because I do not eat meat.

 

[Sanctus]

Her ethical standing is better than yours, it's like if some guy asks another guy to please stop polluting the area and the other guy is like ''why don't you start polluting it too instead?''. There's no equivalence to be drawn here, don't fool yourself.

Her ethical standing is better than mine on the food issue. No question and I never said it was not.
What about all other issues that my ethical standing is better than hers? I am not going to start saying everything but should I force her to do activities for free for childreen like I do? Or once a month go distribute foood to the homeless that I do withe some friends from work? Maybe I should demand that!!
She does none. I do a lot.

For you it seems that becoming a vegan makes you Jesus Christ.

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

I have no issues with animal consumption, but I do wish we wouldn't indulge in shit like foie gras and veal. Eating animals is one thing, but torturing them is a whole other thing that isn't necessary.

You really haven’t lived until you’ve tasted suffering.

 

[AshiharaFan]

Yes, but vitamin B12 is present on meat and is practically nonexistent on vegetables. That is why she has to take a supplement every day.
Dude I seem to know more about veganism that you!!

WRONG!!!! You do NOT know more about veganism than me. If you did then you would know that Vitamin B12 is NOT a naturally occurring vitamin in meat. The animals you eat get THEIR vitamin B12 from the food that THEY EAT which is FORTIFIED with B12. If you took the time to actually educate yourself on this instead of trying to be unnecessarily aggressive you would know these things. If the animals you eat were not fed a B12 fortified diet then they too would completely...I'll say it again, COMPLETELY lack B12.

Everyone, whether they eat meat or eat plant based, would be wise to supplement with a B12 vitamin and eat foods that are fortified with B12. There's no other way we could get it unless we are willing to drink unfiltered pond water.

 

[AshiharaFan]

That is any interesting question, it does seem from the reading I have done recently that a whole foods vegan diet is one of, if not the healthiest diet a person can follow.

Regarding a link to the article I'm afraid not as it was some time ago I read it, but it was about "the French paradox" if I remember rightly, or something along those lines.

Okay, thanks. I'll look for it. If I find it and it seems like the one that you are referencing I'll be more than happy to send the link your way if you want me to.

 

[Scerpi]

WRONG!!!! You do NOT know more about veganism than me. If you did then you would know that Vitamin B12 is NOT a naturally occurring vitamin in meat. The animals you eat get THEIR vitamin B12 from the food that THEY EAT which is FORTIFIED with B12. If you took the time to actually educate yourself on this instead of trying to be unnecessarily aggressive you would know these things. If the animals you eat were not fed a B12 fortified diet then they too would completely...I'll say it again, COMPLETELY lack B12.

Sorry man... this is just wrong... lol

Herbivores don't get B12 from eating food.

How is B12 made?

• B12 is made by anaerobic microorganisms (ie. bacteria that do not require oxygen to live). Anaerobic bacteria are common in the gastrointestinal tract of animals.

 

[Sanctus]

Absolutely NONE OF THIS invalidates or refutes the facts I pointed about the differences between fruits, vegetables and PLANTS. You didn't address this part of my post at all.



No, we're not entering any sort of philosophical discussion because I already pointed out the differences between living plants and the PARTS of NON LIVING plants. Those are botanical facts. Plain and simple.



Not the case at all because you absolutely cannot show any arrogance on my part in my interaction with you itt. Had I insulted you and said that it was not an insult I was merely stating a fact you would not accept that and you know it. You're getting testy which is why the insults are being hurled by you.



WRONG!! It is a fact, one which you are obviously unaware of just as you proved that you are unaware of the FACT that the risk of B12 deficiency is equal between meat eaters and non meat eaters and that almost everything that meat eaters (and non meat eaters in the case of shared food sources) eat are fortified with B12. Education, education, education. If you don't know then you don't know.



Please point out to me ONE THING that I have invented. Just one. There is nothing that I said that I cannot back up with proof. However, here's the real problem with my proof......

I can show you studies on that but can you prove to me that we are natural vegans as humans??

That's not the question you should be asking. The question you aren't asking is can I CONVINCE you (even with all the scientific studies available to prove my position) that we are natural vegans as humans? The answer is obviously know because your position on the matter is clear and already etched into your psyche. Nothing that I or anyone else can say, do, demonstrate or show you will get you to change your position. So can I PROVE it? Yes, I can. Will it CONVINCE you? Of course not. Your mind is already made up.



You had your guns blazing with me from the start. I wonder what nerve I touched when I entered this discussion with you. Good luck in finding any part of my posts where I claim to be perfect because I do not eat meat.[/QUOTE]

You must have realised that I am trying to respond to everyone and that I do not run away from a debate. I am going to leave the computer now but here are some studies for you education:

https://www.rd.com/health/healthy-eating/vitamin-deficiency-vegetarian-vegan/

http://time.com/4252373/meat-eating-veganism-evolution/

https://www.theodysseyonline.com/humans-are-omnivores

https://www.livestrong.com/article/482780-disadvantages-of-being-vegan/

You see, I can show you so many facts about how veganism is not the end all means. You, on the other hand, cannot show me a simple studie about how we were vegans since the beggining and you come to me with that

Your believes are made of very valid and ethical questions and that is fine. You do not need to come with that bullshit about convincing or not convincing. Show me please one valid studie about how we were allways vegans!!?? Just one!!
You do not need lies to validade your choises. The truth is enough and if everybody respects ones believe, there are no problems at all.

Well, I am going to leave the computer now so I will not awnser anymore. Actually, I am going to pick my vegan wife from her yoga class and then we will go out to dinner but to a vegan restaurant of course

 

[AshiharaFan]

Sorry man... this is just wrong... lol

Herbivores don't get B12 from eating food.

How is B12 made?

• B12 is made by anaerobic microorganisms (ie. bacteria that do not require oxygen to live). Anaerobic bacteria are common in the gastrointestinal tract of animals.

You're missing part of the story here my friend. It's true that In the case of ruminants, like cows and sheep, they absorb B12 made by their gut bacteria but THAT ALONE is not NEARLY enough for a human to absorb a sensible amount if they eat that animal. That is far too little most of which will be lost in the curing and cooking process. In order to have more than trace amounts that humans can absorb from eating them also eat poop, like some rodents do, they have bacterial contamination of their food AND factory farms fortify their foods in huge amounts.

 

[Der Eisbär]

Let's see the other way arround. Eating meat is trivially easy to do. If she is not willing to do that for her marriege it means she loves animals more than me!! Cant you see it works both ways??

And I have never demanded her to eat meat or any other thing. She can do whatever she wants.
If being a vegan is her first Dude if you haven't told me to breathe I would have never realized that!! Thak you for keeping me alive!

It's allways the same. It's not the meat, it's the products that are on the meat. And now that vegan is mainstream, a lot of vegan products are starting to be contaminated because corporations just want profit. In my country a studied has been made on biological products and were even worse than the none biological ones.

We have allways lived while eating meat and now that veganism is mainstream, children are starting to have atherosclerosis all of a sudden??

Some vegan children are dying because of the lack of vitamine B. Do you know that a vegan has to take a supplement of vitamine B.

Nothing is perfect on just one side!!

Children are not having atherosclerosis "all of a sudden". Studies are showing that children on a modern western diet are developing atherosclerosis.

No, vegan children are not dying from b12 deficiency. This is nonsense. If b12 is of concern to you take a b12 supplement. How do you think b12 gets in your meat??? They supplement it to the livestock...

 

[Der Eisbär]

Question to the vegans.

Would you eat meat if it was lab grown?

I would as a rare treat. The health effects still stand so I wouldn't make a habit of it but I wouldn't have an ethical issue eating it

 

[AshiharaFan]

You must have realised that I am trying to respond to everyone and that I do not run away from a debate. I am going to leave the computer now but here are some studies for you education:

https://www.rd.com/health/healthy-eating/vitamin-deficiency-vegetarian-vegan/

http://time.com/4252373/meat-eating-veganism-evolution/

https://www.theodysseyonline.com/humans-are-omnivores

https://www.livestrong.com/article/482780-disadvantages-of-being-vegan/

You see, I can show you so many facts about how veganism is not the end all means. You, on the other hand, cannot show me a simple studie about how we were vegans since the beggining and you come to me with that

Your believes are made of very valid and ethical questions and that is fine. You do not need to come with that bullshit about convincing or not convincing. Show me please one valid studie about how we were allways vegans!!?? Just one!!
You do not need lies to validade your choises. The truth is enough and if everybody respects ones believe, there are no problems at all.

Well, I am going to leave the computer now so I will not awnser anymore. Actually, I am going to pick my vegan wife from her yoga class and then we will go out to dinner but to a vegan restaurant of course

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/should-humans-eat-meat-excerpt/

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/human-ancestors-were-nearly-all-vegetarians/

http://www.freedomyou.com/is_the_human_digestive_system_designed_for_meat_freedomyou.aspx

https://www.peta.org/living/food/really-natural-truth-humans-eating-meat/

https://nutritionfacts.org/2016/11/15/the-natural-human-diet/

https://www.peta.org/features/are-humans-supposed-to-eat-meat/