Weidman's hype train will be derailed today

[fightdonttweet]

The fact that Chris is even in that discussion is the product of hype.

As we all know, Chris' resume is not outstanding. So why are we comparing him to a fighter who is known as the greatest on the planet? Because of HYPE.

Actually at its purest form.

Im not saying Chris would get slaughtered, even though thats what I think would happen.

Im not saying it wouldnt be competitive, even though I dont think it would.

What Im saying is that whatever you think would happen in the fight, and regardless of weather you feel its rational or not, Chris hasnt done enough to suggest he deserves a widespread, drawn out discussion about if he could beat the greatest fighter ever from a weightclass above his.

In fact the only evidence in the matter would suggest that Chris would get finished based on JBJs past fights with MWs and Wrestlers at a size disadvantage.

Im not making a claim on weather that is what would happen, just that he hasnt warranted the conversation in any way yet, so the whole thing must be coming from some sort of immediate popularity that has been slightly exaggerated due to very recent success.

AKA HYPE.

Weidman's accomplishments are greater than any of the fighters Jones has fought recently.

 

[Charlie Sheen]

Lots of fail ITT.

 

[Tsar]

I don't think you understand what a hype train is...

mcgregor has beaten no one of any consequence; he has a hype train. weidman is a champion.

 

[Tankeray]

Anderson is my favorite fighter and I thought Weidman's wins were a fluke and Machida would destroy him.

Not a Weidman fan by any means but he really proved me wrong. Machida gave him a good fight but Chris dominated him for the most part.

Although its something often said regarding Machida, Weidman has a difficult style to deal with. His kickboxing is legit as fuck. His cage control is excellent and his offensive pressure at his weight class is unmatched.

Honestly not sure who can beat him at MW right now.

 

[trane]

Anderson is my favorite fighter and I thought Weidman's wins were a fluke and Machida would destroy him.

Not a Weidman fan by any means but he really proved me wrong. Machida gave him a good fight but Chris dominated him for the most part.

Weidman has a difficult style to deal with. His kickboxing is legit as fuck. His cage control is excellent and his offensive pressure at his weight class is unmatched.

Honestly not sure who can beat him at MW right now.

They'll come up with someone, I'm sure they think Vitor would beat him

 

[Tankeray]

They'll come up with someone, I'm sure they think Vitor would beat him

And honestly I thought Vitor had a good chance at first but I think he's a big underdog after watching the fight with Machida.

 

[Gnarwhal]

I don't think you know what the word "technically" means.

your right matt hammil probably considers that a real win....

 

[IamStryker]

The first fight Silva clowned around and got himself knocked out. The second fight ended with an injury.

I really hate these dumb responses on those two fights. In the first fight Silva tried to bait Weidman like he has done in so many fights, he just used some new ways of doing that. Simply stating that he "clowned around" is straight up disrespectful to Anderson, who wanted to win and was trying to win. He is a counter puncher and was trying to counter punch. When Weidman launched that flurry did Anderson get knocked out by the first punch? No, he slipped the first three like he intended. Like he has done so many times before. He wasn't goofying around. It really makes me wonder if people who say these things are even fans of Anderson. Have you not seen his other fights? He has acted that cocky many times and the first time it doesn't work he was "goofying around" lol.

You say the second fight ended in an injury? Well Gee I wonder how he ever got injured? Could it be that he is in a professional fight? Are injuries not supposed to happen in the ring? He screwed up and Weidman didn't. So instead of getting knocked out his leg was broken. Still a result of his mistakes and Weidmans skill. Maybe if guys like you didn't right off those perfectly legitimate wins as flukes you wouldn't have been so dumbfounded when he beat Machida.

 

[LCB]

Chris is at the pinnacle of his powers, congrats on his win. I want a re-match in 2 fights!

 

[MysticNinjaJay]

Fair enough and thanks for the intelligent and respectful response. But we are going to have to agree to disagree when it comes to the first Silva fight. Silva didn't "get himself knocked out", he resorted to a plan B when plan A didn't work. With Weidman knocking him out anyways. Weidman showed the same elite striking that night that he did vs Machida. Silva had absolutely no success whatsoever in the first round (before he resorted to clowning and attempting to bait Weidman), it was all Weidman standing, on the ground, in the clinch, etc.

I think it was inevitable that night. Silva wasn't leaving Vegas with the belt.

You may be right. I just wish we had seen a normal end to the matchup. I would rather Anderson Silva get knocked out or submitted in a normal way than watching him clown around leaving himself open to get hit. Losing like that taints Weidman's victory and hurts Silva's credibility as a serious fighter. Some fans went as far as to accuse Silva of throwing the fight which really upset him. He knew he screwed up. He fought seriously in the rematch. I was happy to see a humbled Silva fight but again disappointed by the result. Maybe Weidman was always going to take that belt that night or maybe Silva could have made adjustments in his striking. We'll never know for that night. Weidman was the better fighter that night regardless. I want to see a third fight between them.

I really hate these dumb responses on those two fights. In the first fight Silva tried to bait Weidman like he has done in so many fights, he just used some new ways of doing that. Simply stating that he "clowned around" is straight up disrespectful to Anderson, who wanted to win and was trying to win. He is a counter puncher and was trying to counter punch. When Weidman launched that flurry did Anderson get knocked out by the first punch? No, he slipped the first three like he intended. Like he has done so many times before. He wasn't goofying around. It really makes me wonder if people who say these things are even fans of Anderson. Have you not seen his other fights? He has acted that cocky many times and the first time it doesn't work he was "goofying around" lol.

You say the second fight ended in an injury? Well Gee I wonder how he ever got injured? Could it be that he is in a professional fight? Are injuries not supposed to happen in the ring? He screwed up and Weidman didn't. So instead of getting knocked out his leg was broken. Still a result of his mistakes and Weidmans skill. Maybe if guys like you didn't right off those perfectly legitimate wins as flukes you wouldn't have been so dumbfounded when he beat Machida.

Yes, he was goofing around and you're delusional if you deny that. I get tired of people acting like Anderson Silva goofing off pretending to be rocked is part of some masterful strategy. It's not. Yes he was trying to bait Weidman in to a standup fight by taunting him but he took it too far and left himself open. No, he does NOT do that all the time. There's a big difference between lowering your hands like Muhammad Ali and straight clowning leaving yourself open to get hit. He clowned Weidman worse than he did Demian Maia, in another fight where he got accused of not taking the bout seriously.

As an Anderson Silva fan I was disappointed in him for fighting like that. I cringed the entire time he was doing it and was saying "Stop it Anderson" in my head. Are you aware that Anderson's corner was yelling at him during the fight telling him to fight seriously? I take nothing away from Weidman because he showed up to fight but he beat a cocky Anderson Silva that clearly underestimated him and thought he could get away with acting like a fool because he was untouchable. Notice in the rematch he kept his hands up the whole time and fought seriously. He learned his lesson.

Anderson did make a technical error in the rematch which led to the broken leg by not setting up his kicks. I acknowledge that. Weidman won the fight but he didn't do it in a conventional way. Even Weidman stated he didn't want to win like that. A fighter should want a clean victory leaving no doubt that they are the superior fighter. Ofcourse Weidman wants full credit for the win but the fact is that he didn't knockout or submit Anderson he checked his kick and it broke his leg.

As far as thinking those fights were flukes, I made a thread where I clearly stated that they weren't flukes while still saying that the strange outcomes left a lot to be desired.

Sherdog - Weidman's wins over Silva were not flukes...but...

If Weidman is a better fighter than Anderson Silva I want to see him get one normal win off of him. I won't blame the loss on his age since I think Silva has a few years left in him and hasn't shown signs of slowing down. I just want to see a normal result. If Weidman is still champion and Silva gets a couple of wins I want to see a third fight. I did predict that Machida would win and I'm not completely shocked by the result since I did see signs that Weidman is a good standup fighter in the Munoz and Silva fights. I gave Weidman his props for beating Machida and while I think Belfort can win I won't underestimate Weidman again.

 

[IamStryker]

Sherdog - Weidman's wins over Silva were not flukes...but...

lol that was your thread? That explains a lot. That thread is a prime example of the lame statement people try to make of "All credit to Weidman but those fights were flukes". You can't give him all credit and then take it away in lame arguments at the same time.

If Weidman is a better fighter than Anderson Silva I want to see him get one normal win off of him.

Wanting a "normal" win is a bad excuse. Silva ended fights in abnormal ways and no one gave a shit. Silva loses twice to the same guy and people are still denying that they are legit. You can deny it all you want Silva has acted super cocky in multiple other fights. Just google Anderson Silvas taunting a history in GIFS. As long as he was trying to bait Weidman like he did he was following the same game plan that he has followed many other times. Do you think his corner was fine with him purposely putting his back to the fence against Stephan Bonnar?

You don't want a normal result. You just want to keep making excuses until the results change. Reminds me of some past elections...

 

[MysticNinjaJay]

lol that was your thread? That explains a lot. That thread is a prime example of the lame statement people try to make of "All credit to Weidman but those fights were flukes". You can't give him all credit and then take it away in lame arguments at the same time.

You have no basis for calling my arguments lame. They are objective observations of how both fights ended and an expression of a desire to see a normal end to a fight between these two. Win or lose I want to see a normal ending.

Wanting a "normal" win is a bad excuse. Silva ended fights in abnormal ways and no one gave a shit.

The only Silva fight that has ended in his favor that resembles the way he lost to Weidman the second time is the Patrick Cote fight. I don't like to see fights end with injuries because I feel cheated out of seeing a proper result. Anderson Silva also never beat a guy who was clowning so you don't know what you're talking about.

What abnormal ways has Anderson Silva won fights aside from the Cote fight?

Silva loses twice to the same guy and people are still denying that they are legit.

That's because of the way they ended. You can't argue that the results of those fights were unconventional. I wouldn't want my favorite fighter winning like that and I wouldn't expect a fan of Weidman's to either. Weidman himself doesn't like the way the fights ended. He enjoys the result and wants the credit but he admits he'd rather win in a conventional way.

You can deny it all you want Silva has acted super cocky in multiple other fights. Just google Anderson Silvas taunting a history in GIFS. As long as he was trying to bait Weidman like he did he was following the same game plan that he has followed many other times. Do you think his corner was fine with him purposely putting his back to the fence against Stephan Bonnar?

I've seen every single one of Anderson Silva's fights and I know the difference between executing a gameplan and wreckless taunting. Silva was also being a bit careless when he fought Bonnar which his corner didn't approve of which is why Anderson had to reassure them that he knew what he was doing. That fight worked out in his favor but he could have easily gotten himself knocked out fighting like that.

Any objective observer knows that Anderson Silva was being careless and not executing a gameplan when he pretended to be rocked against Weidman. That's not a part of a gameplan that's just arrogant behavior and it cost him. He left himself wide open to get hit and he got caught off guard when Weidman threw his combo. He almost dodged the punches but he got hit and KO'd not because Weidman was the superior striker and simply caught him but because he was clowning.

That's a fact.

You don't want a normal result. You just want to keep making excuses until the results change. Reminds me of some past elections...

No, I really and truly want to see a normal result regardless of who wins. You can check my post history and you will never see me make an excuse for a fighter that I favor when they lose. I'm not even calling Weidman's wins flukes just saying that the fights ended abnormally and in a way that leaves a desire for a normal result. I'm not trying to discredit Weidman or make excuses for Anderson Silva. I gave Weidman props for beating Machida and I'd do the same if he beat Silva by KO, Submission or Decision without the fight being tainted by bizarre antics or freak injuries.

I'm not the one being unreasonable here, you just want Weidman to get full credit for beating Anderson Silva and can't deal with the fact that his victories were abnormal. They were what they were. Hopefully Weidman doesn't have any more fights like that so we don't see any more controversy. Ask yourself this, can you truthfully say that you would want your favorite fighters to win the way Weidman won against Anderson Silva? You can accept the result because what happened happened but would you truly want it to end that way?

 

[IamStryker]

Anderson Silva also never beat a guy who was clowning so you don't know what you're talking about.

Duh. I never said that he did. But feel free to keep putting words in my mouth.

What abnormal ways has Anderson Silva won fights aside from the Cote fight?

Just off the top of my head the front kick to Vitor wasn't exactly normal, nor was his hail mary triangle on Chael after Chael pounded him for five rounds. But Silva won those legitimately, I don't need to see a "normal" win to know that he is better. I could argue that Chael was "screwing around" when he threw that spinning back fist that set him up for defeat. But I won't because thats lame.

Weidman himself doesn't like the way the fights ended. He enjoys the result and wants the credit but he admits he'd rather win in a conventional way.

Of course if a fighter had a choice he would choose to get a TKO, KO, or submission over a guy breaking his leg. That doesn't mean that he doesn't feel that the fight was legitimate and that he was better than Silva. Once you accept that Weidman was better than Silva in that fight then its easier to move on with your life. Check my Sig for what Weidman said right after the fight.

That fight worked out in his favor but he could have easily gotten himself knocked out fighting like that.

Wouldn't bother Silva much since he has a legion of fans like you ready to make excuses for him.

Any objective observer knows that Anderson Silva was being careless and not executing a gameplan when he pretended to be rocked against Weidman. That's not a part of a gameplan that's just arrogant behavior and it cost him.

Your basically saying that Silva didn't want to win. Ask yourself when Silva has ever fought like everyone else? He has used different forms of goading people into throwing wildly. Part of the time he just does that by keeping his hands at his sides and making small gestures for the other guy to throw at him but that obviously evolved into more elaborate means to tick of his opponents. Its the same basic plan of counter punching every time. I think he did it because it worked for him. He fought Weidman without doing that in the second fight. Did he do any better? He was basically as ineffective against Weidman in the second more serious fight.

He left himself wide open to get hit

Which is completely typical of him.

and he got caught off guard when Weidman threw his combo. He almost dodged the punches but he got hit and KO'd not because Weidman was the superior striker and simply caught him but because he was clowning.

So his typical style didn't work on Weidman? I guess Weidman is better then eh? But you can tell yourself that he lost because "he was clowning" if that helps you sleep better at night. Then you can justify the second fight as well. I'm sure there's numerous excuses for why Silva did poorly in both fights before losing.

I'm not the one being unreasonable here, you just want Weidman to get full credit for beating Anderson Silva and can't deal with the fact that his victories were abnormal.

He did what no one else ever could do twice, uh ya I think he should have full credit for those wins. I think that wins shouldn't be based on whether or not people like you think they are "normal wins". This is MMA, fights don't always end normally, get over it.

Ask yourself this, can you truthfully say that you would want your favorite fighters to win the way Weidman won against Anderson Silva? You can accept the result because what happened happened but would you truly want it to end that way?

Watching MMA would be more boring if they ended in the ways that we wanted all of the time. I prefer it to be unpredictable like it is.

 

[MysticNinjaJay]

Duh. I never said that he did. But feel free to keep putting words in my mouth.

You said that Anderson Silva won fights in abnormal ways. By abnormal I mean not a KO, Submission or Decision. I'm not talking about front kicks to the face or last minute triangles or anything like that. Those are rare finishes not abnormal finishes.

Abnormal would be something like a fighter knocking themselves out, breaking their arm after getting taken down, getting poked in the eye, twisting their ankle or any way in which a fighter loses a fight that is not based on the fighting skill of their opponent. Obviously rare and spectacular finishes do not qualify.

Ryo Chonan beating Anderson Silva with a Flying Scissor Heel Hook is rare not abnormal. What happened to Patrick Cote against Anderson Silva was abnormal. What happened to Anderson Silva against Chris Weidman in the rematch was abnormal.

Just off the top of my head the front kick to Vitor wasn't exactly normal, nor was his hail mary triangle on Chael after Chael pounded him for five rounds. But Silva won those legitimately, I don't need to see a "normal" win to know that he is better. I could argue that Chael was "screwing around" when he threw that spinning back fist that set him up for defeat. But I won't because thats lame.

You shouldn't because Chael wasn't screwing around when he threw that Spinning Back Fist. That was a legit technique. Anderson Silva was screwing around when he closed his eyes and wobbled around like he was rocked after Weidman hit him. It's not lame to state facts.

Of course if a fighter had a choice he would choose to get a TKO, KO, or submission over a guy breaking his leg. That doesn't mean that he doesn't feel that the fight was legitimate and that he was better than Silva. Once you accept that Weidman was better than Silva in that fight then its easier to move on with your life. Check my Sig for what Weidman said right after the fight.

Wouldn't bother Silva much since he has a legion of fans like you ready to make excuses for him.

Anderson cried on National TV over Brazilian fans accusing him of throwing the fight against Weidman. He does care what people think. And I'm not making excuses.

Your basically saying that Silva didn't want to win. Ask yourself when Silva has ever fought like everyone else? He has used different forms of goading people into throwing wildly. Part of the time he just does that by keeping his hands at his sides and making small gestures for the other guy to throw at him but that obviously evolved into more elaborate means to tick of his opponents. Its the same basic plan of counter punching every time. I think he did it because it worked for him. He fought Weidman without doing that in the second fight. Did he do any better? He was basically as ineffective against Weidman in the second more serious fight.

I'm not saying that he didn't want to win I'm saying that he goofed off and got KO'd as a result. I know that he has taunted opponents before but he took it way too far and made a careless error that led to him getting knocked out. In the second fight he did NONE of that because he knew that's what cost him the last fight. The outcome of the second fight isn't the point. The point is that he lost the first fight because he left himself open to get hit and his opponent capitalized.

Which is completely typical of him.

No, it's not. Anderson doesn't clown around like that unless he doesn't think his opponent is much of a threat to him. He clowned Maia as badly as he did Weidman to get him to commit to striking but also because he wasn't taking him seriously.

Go watch his fight with Vitor Belfort or any number of fights where he doesn't fool around. At most you will see him drop his hands like Muhammad Ali or Roy Jones Jr but you will not see him blatantly fooling around in most of his fights. He got arrogant. He lost the fight because of his arrogance and he fought seriously the second time because he knew he was going to have to take his opponent seriously to win.

So his typical style didn't work on Weidman? I guess Weidman is better then eh? But you can tell yourself that he lost because "he was clowning" if that helps you sleep better at night. Then you can justify the second fight as well. I'm sure there's numerous excuses for why Silva did poorly in both fights before losing.

He didn't really do poorly. The worst that happened to him in either fight before the finishes were that he almost got caught with a heel hook and got rocked in the clinch. Otherwise the rest of both fights were standup exchanges which saw Anderson landing a lot of leg kicks on Weidman. The second fight he broke his leg (abnormal finish). Again I'm not making any excuses here I'm telling you exactly what happened in these fights and how I feel about it and you're just whining because you think I'm not giving Weidman for credit for his victories. He won fair and square but the finishes to both fights were abnormal.

He did what no one else ever could do twice, uh ya I think he should have full credit for those wins. I think that wins shouldn't be based on whether or not people like you think they are "normal wins". This is MMA, fights don't always end normally, get over it.

All wins are equal in the record books but they are not equal in the court of public opinion. Whether you like it or not both of Weidman's wins were abnormal. Even he acknowledges it. Why can't you?

Watching MMA would be more boring if they ended in the ways that we wanted all of the time. I prefer it to be unpredictable like it is.

Since I've explained to you what I mean by an abnormal outcome vs. a rare outcome perhaps you'll re-evaluate your stance on this issue. Do you really want to see fights end abnormally the way I mentioned in my examples? I love rare outcomes. Give me elbow knockouts, jumping front kicks to the face, capoeira kick knockouts and the most unbelievable submissions imaginable any day.

I don't want to see fights end with freak injuries and careless mistakes. When they do I don't feel that the outcome is conclusive. If you disagree fine but I'm not making excuses. The outcome of fights matters to me. That's all.

 

[Saren]

Weidman >> Silva

Okay /thread

 

[accolyte1022]

Weidman >> Silva

Okay /thread

But what about Machida?

 

[Saren]

But what about Machida?

Weidman > Machida, since he was competitive with him.

Double > for Silva cause he lost twice and was made to look like an amateur

 

[accolyte1022]

Weidman > Machida, since he was competitive with him.

Double > for Silva cause he lost twice and was made to look like an amateur

Machida gassed and was out of shape. Weidman hasn't proved anything yet

End of discussion.


-TS:icon_chee

 

[Teefs]

Heh, I love how this thread still pops up and the TS is still refusing to eat his crow.

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt, friend.

 

[VictorCosta]

until Weidman loses he will never be an accomplished fighter by Sherdog standards. Weidman is faded to be a mediocre fighter by sherdog standards since he never "Won" those fights. This logic is crazy.