Crime What did the cops do wrong today. Vol. 1

[Bloody Pulp]

But you do understand how giving the cops such leeway, over what civilians are held to, has led us to were even shooting such as this receive backlash?

Well, they sort of have to be afforded the leeway, otherwise the job would be near impossible, it’s just up to courts to make sure they apply it properly. Having the benefit of the doubt at the start doesn’t mean it has to be there throughout. If you fuck up like Slager, or the Indian cop who shot the Australian lady just for knocking on his window at night or the Asian cop who shot the guy in he staircase cause it was dark then they should be held to account.

Just think that, based on what info I see so for, this shooting isn’t one to get riled up about. Further, I think it hurts peoples cause when they throw their hat in with the “hands up don’t shoot” type histrionics without really knowing what they are talking about.

 

[Leagon]

This is the first clear explanation you've given. Now we can discuss.

You're arguing that the suspect was a threat to the officer. Even the officer himself isn't claim ing this, because it is rather baseless. If the officer had stopped chasing him, the suspect wouldn't have hunted the officer down. The suspect was fleeing, which is I'm sure what the officer said when he radioed for backup. The gun may have been a fake. Or unloaded. Either way, the officer did not say that he felt that he was in immediate danger.

Instead, the officer claimed that he shot the suspect to protect others. Fine. Which others? Other...armed officers who are aware of the suspect's description and approximate location.

So the suspect wasn't an immediate threat to one lone officer, but he was an immediate threat to several officers with mobile cover? Is that an acceptable argument?

@Bloody Pulp any response?

 

[Islam Imamate]

The problem is that if he turns the gun on you he will be able to shoot you multiple times before you have a chance to draw and fire your own weapon just based on natural human reaction times. Just watch that recent vid where the female officer gets shot by a guy who pullls the gun out as he exits his car, or the militar dude who steps out and starts walking back toward the cop before pulling a gun and shooting him.

That’s why the courts give cops leeway in not forcing them to wait until they are actually being shot at to engage. The bad guy will get the first few shots off everytime if you are waiting for him to point the gun directly at you.

Cop should have his gun out too just in case but that doesn't mean he should open fire. Are you saying he was justified in shooting someone in the back despite the fact he wasn't breaking any laws and was only disobeying the cop's commands because he had a gun out? Owning a gun and open carry are lawful in Tennessee and brandishing isn't illegal there either so on what basis do you justify shooting him?

 

[Bloody Pulp]

Cop should have his gun out too just in case but that doesn't mean he should open fire. Are you saying he was justified in shooting someone in the back despite the fact he wasn't breaking any laws and was only disobeying the cop's commands because he had a gun out? Owning a gun and open carry are lawful in Tennessee and brandishing isn't illegal there either so on what basis do you justify shooting him?

Running with your gun out is a bad idea. Sympathetic hand movements can cause accidental discharges pretty easily. Have your right hand on the gun and go to vault over something with your left hand and clinching your left hand causes your right hand to clinch too. There was an example awhile ago i remember where a cop was pulling a guy back with his left hand and he accidentally fired the gun i his Right hand at the same instant he yanked with his left.

Running with a gun in your hand, while also running from a cop and refusing to drop it, can make you a deadly threat whether you committed some other crime beforehand or not. If you just start running down the street with a gun right now odds are a cop is going to show up, by chance or call, and the same
scenario will play out depending on what you do from that point on

 

[The Sole Survivor]

Pig beats handcuffed woman, takes pictures to show his pig buddies, is sued, and yet still keeps job.... wow.

"The proposed settlement of the excessive force lawsuit filed by a woman against the city and police officer Mark McCracken was unanimously approved Monday by the City Council’s Claims Committee.
After the vote, independent Councilman Vince Riggi, chairman of the committee, would not disclose the amount. He could only say that “It’s a lot of money.
The Police Department’s professional standards unit found in March that McCracken used excessive force against Cottone while she was handcuffed, causing a large head wound. The investigation also revealed McCracken took a photo of Cottone’s injury and showed it to other officers, which violated department policy, according to a report written by recently retired Lt. Edward Barbagelata."
https://dailygazette.com/article/20...s-proposed-settlement-in-excessive-force-suit

 

[Islam Imamate]

If you do something that requires me to take action, such as run away from me while brandishing a handgun, and I tell you to stop, you are being officially detained at that point. IF you refuse the detention, you are now obstructing/interfering with my investigation, a crime. In short, if you ignore a lawful detention, you can now be charged with a crime.

Why would that require you to take action? Brandishing isn't illegal in Tennessee and open carry is so what law was he breaking? Even the car that the cop mistook for the one the deceased was in didn't break any law, the officers merely suspected them of something because they "suspiciously" gave the officer right of way...

 

[Islam Imamate]

Running with your gun out is a bad idea. Sympathetic hand movements can cause accidental discharges pretty easily. Have your right hand on the gun and go to vault over something with your left hand and clinching your left hand causes your right hand to clinch too. There was an example awhile ago i remember where a cop was pulling a guy back with his left hand and he accidentally fired the gun i his Right hand at the same instant he yanked with his left.

Running with a gun in your hand, while also running from a cop and refusing to drop it, can make you a deadly threat whether you committed some other crime beforehand or not. If you just start running down the street with a gun right now odds are a cop is going to show up, by chance or call, and the same
scenario will play out depending on what you do from that point on

But again none of that is technically illegal so on what basis does this cop justify going after him? Not even the car he was following before this did anything illegal.

Guns scare people, I get that. But that's not a basis to kill anyone over. Besides, its legal to run from police who haven't detained you or given you a lawful order. The command to stop is a lawful order and the deceased ignored it to be fair but even then disobeying a lawful order is not a basis to use deadly force.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Probably should have left the Beretta behind. Then we would have had a tazering video, which is always fun.

Or he'd still be dead, not like cops don't shoot unarmed people.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

I love how when deceased got pulled over by the cop, he had a few moments to think about what would be the best thing for him to do right now and the conclusion he came to was... BRANDISH MY GUN AND START RUNNING!

That might not be what happened. Did anyone see it go down that way other than the man being accused of murder?

I don't have a strong opinion on whether the officer committed murder, but my gut tells me this part of the story sounds a little fishy. Is there any dashboard cam footage, or did the officer park his car at an angle away from the Impala?

 

[The Sole Survivor]

Shit if just being armed = death by pigs can people shoot pigs too since they have a gun? This is why i dont normally look at my ignore list.

 

[Gutter Chris]

This is why we have shootings like the poor man in AZ. Forced to crawl begging for his life. The officers didn't have to Identify a threat before shooting. This is a case where, yes the man had a gun, but the officer was not in immediate danger. The officer had he gun drawn and a better angle to react.

see thats a good example of cop murder

One of the things different in that case than this one is that the cop had control off the situation and still chose to act like a brute. Control of the situation being the thing that makes one officer a cold blooded killer and the other a tragedy but more than likely a good shoot

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

Why would that require you to take action? Brandishing isn't illegal in Tennessee and open carry is so what law was he breaking? Even the car that the cop mistook for the one the deceased was in didn't break any law, the officers merely suspected them of something because they "suspiciously" gave the officer right of way...

Brandishing is legal in Tennessee? I haven't been able to find a citation for that, do you have one?

Edit: Found it, looks like they don't specifically define brandishing in the law, this will come down to "reasonableness" of the response. Was the guy enough of a perceived danger to others to justify a kill shot.

 

[LMP]

see thats a good example of cop murder

One of the things different in that case than this one is that the cop had control off the situation and still chose to act like a brute. Control of the situation being the thing that makes one officer a cold blooded killer and the other a tragedy but more than likely a good shoot

I freely admit I often argue extremes, from my point of view, to try and bring people closer to my point of view. This is really a gray area shooting, as I have said before, I also don't think a murder charge will stick. I do not have a problem sending this to court though, because often times the police literally get away with murder, and we need to strike a balance with these thing. The public has a distrust of our police force that it shouldn't.

 

[Bloody Pulp]

But again none of that is technically illegal so on what basis does this cop justify going after him? Not even the car he was following before this did anything illegal.

Guns scare people, I get that. But that's not a basis to kill anyone over. Besides, its legal to run from police who haven't detained you or given you a lawful order. The command to stop is a lawful order and the deceased ignored it to be fair but even then disobeying a lawful order is not a basis to use deadly force.

THe gun in his hand is an immediate threat. If it was in a pocket or waistband still you’d have a point, but there’s not many reasons to keep a gun in your hand, while running from a cop who’s telling you to drop it, other than you want to have the option to use it if you need to. He could’ve left it in the car or tossed it at any point to avoid this.

 

[ToxicShocker]

Guy ran right into a stairway to heaven

 

[LMP]

THe gun in his hand is an immediate threat. If it was in a pocket or waistband still you’d have a point, but there’s not many reasons to keep a gun in your hand, while running from a cop who’s telling you to drop it, other than you want to have the option to use it if you need to. He could’ve left it in the car or tossed it at any point to avoid this.

The reason he ran was because he was a felon in possession of a firearm. The reason he didn't drop the gun was because he still would have faced felony gun possession charges if they caught him. He took the gun and tried to get away to avoid a more serious charge than fleeing from the police.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Owning a gun and open carry are lawful in Tennessee and brandishing isn't illegal there either so on what basis do you justify shooting him?

There's no accusation of brandishing anyway. Carrying in your hand alone doesn't qualify.

 

[HeLLMuTT]

This would be reason to issue a BOLO . . .

That would be a good Idea, send him into your city's worst part and he'll get that place in check...

Then when he's done he'll announce to the next city on his list...

 

[Gutter Chris]

The public has a distrust of our police force that it shouldn't.

I do agree with this

They have abused it for so long that in cases where they should get the benefit of the doubt that relationship has really eroded to the point where we question everything they do. I do really try to place myself in their shoes and think about if I would have shot someone and the answer is no just about everytime other than when guns are involved. I know people have the right to be armed on paper but in reality it can create some sticky situations and that sometimes you might be asked to drop it for a second while some info gets sorted out. People are only human even the best of them and when fight or flight kicks off there is only so much you can do to keep a lid on it.

I grew up with the punk rock and it pains me to say this but you just need to comply with the police in almost all situations or you are going to come up on the short end. The state gives them a certain amount of power and you are never going to win in a street fight with a cop no matter who is right or wrong . No one wants to deal with police and your rights probably were violated any time you have to deal with them but its the system we got and for the most part i think it works though im sure we agree some laws are bs and the police arent going any where any time soon so its best just deal with them in a way that gives you all the advantages in the world walking away from the encounter unscathed or at least as unroughed up as possible


I really think that cops should be better trained and have to live in the communities they police in and that less ticky tack shit for them to nickel and dime people for and interact over would probably be ideal to solving the problems having a police force creates .

 

[Scrody]

The reason he ran was because he was a felon in possession of a firearm. The reason he didn't drop the gun was because he still would have faced felony gun possession charges if they caught him. He took the gun and tried to get away to avoid a more serious charge than fleeing from the police.

The deceased fella was a felon?