"What is Paleo?" - Video by Alex Johnson

[cheath]

Oh yeah, and where the hell is Vedic on this one? I don't lurk here too much anymore, but did I miss something?

 

[Monger]

Oh yeah, and where the hell is Vedic on this one? I don't lurk here too much anymore, but did I miss something?

Vedic's been MIA for awhile. I exchanged a couple of emails with him... he's fine, just busy.

cheath,

In my opinion, just cut out processed foods and replace them with foods closer to their natural state and you'll be way ahead of the curve. Again, in my opinion, the biggest reason is that the foods are more nutrient dense and it helps keep calories under control for those that need that.

I also believe that people with high energy outputs and higher caloric needs can get away with more processed or "junk" food and still be in great health. It really is just a balance between covering all of your nutritional bases while meeting energy requirements.

Guys that need 5,000 + calories a day will struggle with eating just clean foods. The volume will get ridiculous. Imagine Michael Phelps trying to eat strict paleo (it's been reported that he's eaten upwards of 12k calories a day during training). He'd explode if he couldn't eat foods that were more calorically dense ("junk food").

 

[MikeMartial]

Yup, you are confused. I am not zero carb and eat some low allergenic carb sources to stay out of ketosis like white rice and low fructose fruits. I've tried to get Sol to come back and post on message boards but he's not interested and says we're all a bunch of food obsessives.

Well we are food obsessed. This is a DIET and sup forum. :icon_chee Thanks for clarifying your diet btw.

On a side note, how Anthony Colpo's Fat Loss Bible has not caught on here is beyond me. He eats probably the exact diet that you do MM.

Fatty meats, eggs, coconut oil, butter, fruits, vegetables, nuts, PreWO and PWO whey with liquid carbs. Sound familiar?

Yeah, sounds like Colpo stole my diet. :icon_chee

unlike that shitbag Dr. Eades whom he destroyed in their calories vs MAD debate. How Eades still has any followers is something I'll never know. I guess being sedentary and lazy is what sells in English speaking countries.

I had no idea who Colpo was prior to Eades's rant, and I freely admit I only viewed one side of the...discussion? I'm not sure. I'm still a fan of Protein Power, but after following Eades blog for a while now, I realize he's the ultimate e-warrior. I think he lives and breathes to argue on the internet, and isn't the picture of health he promotes. That shit gets old quick, doesn't matter if it's here or from a different website/blog. Most of his blogging, if he posts at all, surrounds vacationing, what he eats, and the lectures he attends. He does do a nice job of tearing apart conventional studies, though, like the JUPITER study. I will give him that. Extremely intelligent man, but I think he's lost a bit of his original vision. Anyways, that's all beside the point. I'll have to look into Colpo's work some more.

 

[sickc0d3r]

So I have some questions about this stuff. Maybe it should be another thread aimed at lifestyle, but maybe it can sit in here nicely.

1) What are people's thoughts on the extremes to which you should take your diet in order to reap effects? More specifically, do you think that starting off with small changes can be effective? For example, if I switch the little bit of milk I drink to soy milk, take a couple snack products or a dinner staple and replace it with something more Paleo, do you think that's a beneficial start? Or would you argue that unless I really do a serious revamp I'm unlikely to feel/reap any of the benefits at all?

2) What are some changes that people can make? We try to get grassfed beef/chicken at the local farmers market when we can, and we eat the "free range" eggs from the grocery store (which I know is probably nothing more than a waste of an extra dollar). But is switching regular milk to soy milk a good start? I try to eat Kashi cereal rather than other cereals (which trying to do something is *a* step, so don't say it's not...it just might not be a worthwhile/good one).

But if you think it's worth it change what you can where you can in the absence of an immediate overhaul, what are some good places to start? It's not like I can walk into the store and go to the Paleo section. If anybody has readings or something on this, it would be great to see on my own, and have them as a resource for those interested.

I started down this path about 6 months ago by following a simple plan. I removed all processed foods and replaced them with whole food sources. I don't consider this a complete overhaul because I didn't have to elimate entire food groups, like the paleo diet does.

So for example, my bread became ezekial instead of whatever is on sale. Instead of white rice, whole grain brown. If I wanted soup it was homemade or I really had to read a lot of labels to find something suitable. For occasional desserts I look for things made from raw chocolate with nuts and/or fruit.

This type of eating automatically eliminated anything containing vegetable oils, corn syrup, msg, etc... it also had the side effect of reducing sodium.

Later I increased green, leafy vegetable consumption, added more nuts through snacking, and decreased the grains.

This has worked wonders for me. Easiest "diet" to stick to that I have ever tried. I have no problem with energy, performance, etc... My body comp is more lean and muscular than ever. I do cheat once in a while with a pizza or something. And I still drink beer and wine.

More recently I have looked for free range grassfed when possible, but that is more of a choice to try support humanely treated animals.

 

[turbozed]

Well it's pretty clear now that nobody on this forum can be classified as 'strictly Paleo' but we all seem to roughly similar diets. At first I thought we all could be considered 'Paleo' and that the guy in the video was just taking it to the extreme, but I was wrong on that.

Now that we got that cleared up, maybe we should come up with a different term since it appears everyone has a problem with the 'strictly Paleo' crowd. I've been describing my diet as 'Paleo' to my friends but didn't realize that I was grouping myself with an extreme viewpoint.

In any case, this was good discussion that ended up being rather helpful as well.

 

[Monger]

Ya, following the accepted definition of Paleo diets, grains, legumes, and dairy products are excluded. I personally believe that, in moderation, all of those can be included in a very healthy diet and probably even beneficial in some cases. Which is why I would never consider myself a Paleo guy and I don't buy into the concept.

What I can buy into is eating more natural nutrient dense foods... which is sort of broadening out the Paleo diet definition to include other natural food sources beyond what our ancestors may have eaten.

 

[IDRISCKY]

I eat kefir... drink rather.

 

[cheath]

I started down this path about 6 months ago by following a simple plan. I removed all processed foods and replaced them with whole food sources. I don't consider this a complete overhaul because I didn't have to elimate entire food groups, like the paleo diet does.

So for example, my bread became ezekial instead of whatever is on sale. Instead of white rice, whole grain brown. If I wanted soup it was homemade or I really had to read a lot of labels to find something suitable. For occasional desserts I look for things made from raw chocolate with nuts and/or fruit.

More recently I have looked for free range grassfed when possible, but that is more of a choice to try support humanely treated animals.

Those are some good tips, great starting points. What about replacing regular milk with soy milk, would that be a good step for me?

The thing that really kills me is lunch. I always end up pulling out the microwave shit out of a box! Maybe switching to a good turkey sandwich with Ezekial bread would be a good place to start that at.

Because this stuff can be difficult for people, I'm a fan of having more concrete examples, like those in your second and third paragraphs. The first paragraph is great conceptually, but does best when coupled with examples. Thanks again, rock on. :icon_lol:

 

[turbozed]

Those are some good tips, great starting points. What about replacing regular milk with soy milk, would that be a good step for me?

The thing that really kills me is lunch. I always end up pulling out the microwave shit out of a box! Maybe switching to a good turkey sandwich with Ezekial bread would be a good place to start that at.

Because this stuff can be difficult for people, I'm a fan of having more concrete examples, like those in your second and third paragraphs. The first paragraph is great conceptually, but does best when coupled with examples. Thanks again, rock on. :icon_lol:

Many here would question the benefits of switching to soy milk due to its weak but present estrogen effect and concerns over breast and thyroid cancer (which are undetermined, I don't want to sound alarmist here). Why are you worried about the milk in the first place? Are you not digesting dairy well?

 

[canadapride**]

Vedic's been MIA for awhile. I exchanged a couple of emails with him... he's fine, just busy.

cheath,

In my opinion, just cut out processed foods and replace them with foods closer to their natural state and you'll be way ahead of the curve. Again, in my opinion, the biggest reason is that the foods are more nutrient dense and it helps keep calories under control for those that need that.

I also believe that people with high energy outputs and higher caloric needs can get away with more processed or "junk" food and still be in great health. It really is just a balance between covering all of your nutritional bases while meeting energy requirements.

Guys that need 5,000 + calories a day will struggle with eating just clean foods. The volume will get ridiculous. Imagine Michael Phelps trying to eat strict paleo (it's been reported that he's eaten upwards of 12k calories a day during training). He'd explode if he couldn't eat foods that were more calorically dense ("junk food").

He could just eat pure fat. Butter, lard, coconut oil, ect. Fats are more calorically dense than carbs.

 

[IDRISCKY]

Many here would question the benefits of switching to soy milk due to its weak but present estrogen effect and concerns over breast and thyroid cancer (which are undetermined, I don't want to sound alarmist here). Why are you worried about the milk in the first place? Are you not digesting dairy well?

If he isn't digesting it well he could always try lactaid or kefir. Kefir doesn't retain the milk taste though since it is fermented.

 

[sickc0d3r]

I am an example guy myself, so I get that. But I am not the one to ask about the pros and cons of *whatever* (like soy milk vs. milk)... there are many more learned folks in this forum that might answer that for you. My personal choice is whole milk from cows or goats, and plenty of it. I look for organic milk. I haven't tried raw milk yet, but supposedly grass fed raw milk is excellent.

When I make sandwiches, I skip the deli meat and buy whole parts like thighs or breasts. My local grocer makes whole roasted chickens every day, which I buy and tear the meat off for sandwiches. Only 8 bucks a bird.

 

[Mathias]

I had no idea who Colpo was prior to Eades's rant, and I freely admit I only viewed one side of the...discussion? I'm not sure. I'm still a fan of Protein Power, but after following Eades blog for a while now, I realize he's the ultimate e-warrior. I think he lives and breathes to argue on the internet, and isn't the picture of health he promotes. That shit gets old quick, doesn't matter if it's here or from a different website/blog. Most of his blogging, if he posts at all, surrounds vacationing, what he eats, and the lectures he attends. He does do a nice job of tearing apart conventional studies, though, like the JUPITER study. I will give him that. Extremely intelligent man, but I think he's lost a bit of his original vision. Anyways, that's all beside the point. I'll have to look into Colpo's work some more.

Here's 2 good places to start...

Anthony Colpo's Challenge to Eades and his MAD followers

Anthony Colpo Explains Why Dr Michael Eades is the Biggest Prat in the Diet Industry

 

[canadapride**]

Here's 2 good places to start...

Anthony Colpo's Challenge to Eades and his MAD followers

Anthony Colpo Explains Why Dr Michael Eades is the Biggest Prat in the Diet Industry

God dam the guy is pissed in the first link, lol. Got a link to the Eades' side of the discussion?

Edit:

Found it. Seems like Eades is saying that he knows that caloric deficiency is important, but that it's harder on a high carb diet. Then Colpo seems to be saying the same thing in his second link. It was just a skim though.

 

[BJJHooligan]

Ok so i got out of this no one on this board eats a "paleo diet". We all eat a diet for someone athletic that knows about nutrition. That makes me feel better about the general views of the board.

I really thought everyone was in a dogmatic view point following and extreme diet and thought that was the only way to be truly healthy. This thread really have made a lot of things a lot clearer for me.

I guess i will also try to make it clear why i am so dead set on leaving carbs as part of my diet. i am 6'1 230lbs. I wont lie about my body fat i probally am in the 16-20% range. My goals are to continue bulking up to 250-260ish range. Then once i hit the strength and size i am happy with i plan to cut to 235-245 range and hopefully be in the single digit fat range with the strength and size i am looking for.

To achieve my goals carbs make it easier for me to get the calories needed to reach my goals. In the morning when i wake up at 5 am i can make a shake with 1-2 cups of oats some peanut butter, berries, whole milk and get around the 1000 calories i am looking for. Then first break at work at 9am today i 2cups or spinach and 3/4lb grass fed NY strip steak 1 cup of quinoa. Lunch at noon 1lb of chicken breast 1 cup brocc and one up of brown rice. Get off work 2:30 i workout. Post work out the same shake i have in the am. Then roughly at 4:30-5pm tought salmon, spinach salad with cheese tomatoes. Then at 8pm some type of veggie and roast beef sandwich on whole grain bread. Then 10pm before bed casin protein whole milk. Also i take 10 fish oil, NOW Adam multi, creatine mono, Beta alanine, Bcaa, Animal flex for my joints. Also throughout the day i eat mixed nuts. I know i should eat more veggies just hard to be hungry enough to eat them.

 

[turbozed]

To achieve my goals carbs make it easier for me to get the calories needed to reach my goals. In the morning when i wake up at 5 am i can make a shake with 1-2 cups of oats some peanut butter, berries, whole milk and get around the 1000 calories i am looking for. Then first break at work at 9am today i 2cups or spinach and 3/4lb grass fed NY strip steak 1 cup of quinoa. Lunch at noon 1lb of chicken breast 1 cup brocc and one up of brown rice. Get off work 2:30 i workout. Post work out the same shake i have in the am. Then roughly at 4:30-5pm tought salmon, spinach salad with cheese tomatoes. Then at 8pm some type of veggie and roast beef sandwich on whole grain bread. Then 10pm before bed casin protein whole milk. Also i take 10 fish oil, NOW Adam multi, creatine mono, Beta alanine, Bcaa, Animal flex for my joints. Also throughout the day i eat mixed nuts. I know i should eat more veggies just hard to be hungry enough to eat them.

Lol we have practically the same diet (as far as types of foods). Right down to the NOW Adam multi. I'm generally only eating carbs in the morning or periworkout though.

 

[BJJHooligan]

Lol we have practically the same diet (as far as types of foods). Right down to the NOW Adam multi. I'm generally only eating carbs in the morning or periworkout though.

So our views really aren't different lol. I would cut out some of the carbs if i wasn't trying to gain weight. Just an easy cheap way to throw cals in my diet.

 

[BilderbergGroup]

Lunch at noon 1lb of chicken breast 1 cup brocc and one up of brown rice.

May I ask you why you eat a pound of chicken in one sitting when a pound of chicken is like 100+ grams of protein?

I would think that you're not absorbing alot or even most of that and if not then why not eat something else instead of the excess protein?

Or maybe you just like chicken and don't care about the wasted protein.

 

[BJJHooligan]

May I ask you why you eat a pound of chicken in one sitting when a pound of chicken is like 100+ grams of protein?

I would think that you're not absorbing alot or even most of that and if not then why not eat something else instead of the excess protein?

Or maybe you just like chicken and don't care about the wasted protein.

Because i am bulking and it's a way to get some cals. Cooked right it is tasty and easy for me eat. I know i don't need more then 40-50 grams of protein per meal. When you are on a bulk you take clean cals how you can get them.

Also i work in the construction industry so i burn a lot of calories at work. I also am very hungry when i am at work. I don't see it as wasted protein just needed calories.

 

[BilderbergGroup]

Because i am bulking and it's a way to get some cals. Cooked right it is tasty and easy for me eat. I know i don't need more then 40-50 grams of protein per meal. When you are on a bulk you take clean cals how you can get them.

Also i work in the construction industry so i burn a lot of calories at work. I also am very hungry when i am at work. I don't see it as wasted protein just needed calories.

gotcha