What is your honest opinion on Mark Rippetoe?

[Baby Hanma]

You are basically a caricature of my assessment of Rippetoe that I said from the start: Rippetoe is incredibly stubborn and not very adaptive. There are many different ways to coach a lift depending on factors such as frame. He always seems glued to one way and he's like that with his overall philosophy as well.

I also get a laugh that you referenced Haack - who squats high bar and completely different than how Rippetoe coaches. On top of that, he actually recommends beginners focus more on a "powerbuilding" program that is quite a bit different from Starting Strength.

I didn't realize the term "powerbuilding" is still known. I thought it died down.

Everyone should be on a powerbuilding program. Everyone, with or without drugs, should be a perma-bulker until it's time to take care of health. At that point, go on a cut and then do a healthier version of perma/clean bulking after their cut.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

Rippetoe is wrong about everything. 6 foot 150 pound 16 year olds have no business doing anything remotely similar to starting strength especially not a Rippetoe taught low bar squat. Instead they should adopt the seemingly newly minted term of power builder. Train in the 8-12 rep range on SBD and also a wider variety of isolation exercises for their first year of training. They should also be very careful not to gain more than 5 pounds per month in bodyweight lest they inadvertantly place themselves in a state of permabulk.

If you do the aforementioned rather than starting strength with maybe a few curls thrown in you will be that much closer to John haack.

is that better?

 

[Baby Hanma]

Rippetoe is wrong about everything. 6 foot 150 pound 16 year olds have no business doing anything remotely similar to starting strength especially not a Rippetoe taught low bar squat. Instead they should adopt the seemingly newly minted term of power builder. Train in the 8-12 rep range on SBD and also a wider variety of isolation exercises for their first year of training. They should also be very careful not to gain more than 5 pounds per month in bodyweight lest they inadvertantly place themselves in a state of permabulk.

If you do the aforementioned rather than starting strength with maybe a few curls thrown in you will be that much closer to John haack.

is that better?

Absolutely not.

I think you have the wrong definition of a powerbuilding program. A true powerbuilding program involves both heavy weights and light weights. Low reps and high reps. Otherwise, it’s just bodybuilding.

The original powerbuilders were Paul Anderson (USA Olympic gold medalist) and Doug Hepburn (Canadian Olympic gold medalist). If you see photos of young Doug, you‘ll see he was flexing in the beach. He was also the first human to bench press 500 pounds. Thus “powerbuilder”.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

O one more thing. I have not used starting strength in well over a decade. It is a program you do to start for maybe ~4 months. I actually got the strongest I have ever been using greyskull but Amrap on squat variants twice week became too much. Maybe Rippetoe was on to something there in not using amraps in his novice program.

 

[gspieler]

O one more thing. I have not used starting strength in well over a decade. It is a program you do to start for maybe ~4 months. I actually got the strongest I have ever been using greyskull but Amrap on squat variants twice week became too much. Maybe Rippetoe was on to something there in not using amraps in his novice program.

No one is açting like Rip is clueless when it comes to strength training. He clearly knows how to take a beginner and get them to respectable numbers, in a relatively safe and reasonable way. But when you ask for honest opinions about him(or anything really), you're going to get some criticisms. Perhaps instead of simply brushing them aside, you could use it as food for though.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

No one is açting like Rip is clueless when it comes to strength training. He clearly knows how to take a beginner and get them to respectable numbers, in a relatively safe and reasonable way. But when you ask for honest opinions about him(or anything really), you're going to get some criticisms. Perhaps instead of simply brushing them aside, you could use it as food for though.

O I definitely think about them most of them are just a load of crap though.

 

[NoSmilez]

He sort of fell out of favor from the fitness community. TBF a lot of stuff like stronglifts and startingstrength that this forum used to be in love with has fell out of favor. I still feel those programs are best for beginners even though it isn't optimal. They are easy to follow and implement.

My honest critique of him is that he isn't so bad but his personality is very abrasive. His approach to everything is very dogmatic and sometimes it has no real basis outside of this is the way and that is it. I don't believe he ever produced a top athlete before. People like Alan Thrall use Rippetoe's cues to teach beginners how to lift. I still think he is ok to teach beginners for the first 3-6 months how to lift then they need to look for a better program. You can't just keep gaining weight and adding more weight to your lifts for every workout.

Also Hip Drrriiveeee

 

[ROcknrollracing]

I suppose it depends on what you consider a top athlete to be. They definitely have olympic level athletes as coaches on their board. He has definitely helped teens earn college scholarships through sports all the way to the division 1 level. Im aware of one UFC fighter a female he had on his podcast that he helped train for strength. They actually promote the conjugate method now which many top level athletes have implemented in many different sports.(as well as being mentioned in Practical programming). If you are talking about somebody like Lebron James or Ohtani well they were going to be elite athletes pretty much regardless of what training style they used.

 

[Oblivian]

He sort of fell out of favor from the fitness community. TBF a lot of stuff like stronglifts and startingstrength that this forum used to be in love with has fell out of favor. I still feel those programs are best for beginners even though it isn't optimal. They are easy to follow and implement.

My honest critique of him is that he isn't so bad but his personality is very abrasive. His approach to everything is very dogmatic and sometimes it has no real basis outside of this is the way and that is it. I don't believe he ever produced a top athlete before. People like Alan Thrall use Rippetoe's cues to teach beginners how to lift. I still think he is ok to teach beginners for the first 3-6 months how to lift then they need to look for a better program. You can't just keep gaining weight and adding more weight to your lifts for every workout.

Also Hip Drrriiveeee

One of the main aspects is that there is a ton of content, coaches, programs, etc. out there now. Your critique is pretty much exactly what myself and many others have. Mark Bell used to have a ton of guys on his videos like Ed Coan, Wenning, Duffin, Max Aita, etc. showing their keys to form, breaking down accessories, giving advice to beginners, etc. There are countless other channels, podcasts, etc. Without a doubt, every single one of those lifters that I just named do not think everyone should be performing the lifts the same way. Proportions and if you are quad or glute dominant can largely dictate how to squat. Identifying what works and is optimal for you from the start is key, and that may be drastically different than how Rippetoe coaches and says you have to do it. Furthermore, there are beginners where the volume from Starting Strength is probably not a great option.

I'm not anti Starting Strength as I even bought it for one of my nephews when he got into lifting many years ago. It's a tool just like everything else and you can take good things from it. The problem is when you buy all in on it and Rippetoes philosophy. Anyone who has been into lifting for a while knows a lot of it is bullshit and outdated, and honestly, I think a lot of his "my way or the highway" attitude is a sales tactic.

 

[samuelsoncast]

I am two pages into this and even the arguments in this thread are bloody well thought out and educated.
The rest of Sherdog would implode if they saw such conversation.

 

[Baby Hanma]

I am two pages into this and even the arguments in this thread are bloody well thought out and educated.
The rest of Sherdog would implode if they saw such conversation.

Thanks. I’m not sure if I’m included in your list, but I‘m proud of starting this thread.

 

[NoSmilez]

One of the main aspects is that there is a ton of content, coaches, programs, etc. out there now. Your critique is pretty much exactly what myself and many others have. Mark Bell used to have a ton of guys on his videos like Ed Coan, Wenning, Duffin, Max Aita, etc. showing their keys to form, breaking down accessories, giving advice to beginners, etc. There are countless other channels, podcasts, etc. Without a doubt, every single one of those lifters that I just named do not think everyone should be performing the lifts the same way. Proportions and if you are quad or glute dominant can largely dictate how to squat. Identifying what works and is optimal for you from the start is key, and that may be drastically different than how Rippetoe coaches and says you have to do it. Furthermore, there are beginners where the volume from Starting Strength is probably not a great option.

I'm not anti Starting Strength as I even bought it for one of my nephews when he got into lifting many years ago. It's a tool just like everything else and you can take good things from it. The problem is when you buy all in on it and Rippetoes philosophy. Anyone who has been into lifting for a while knows a lot of it is bullshit and outdated, and honestly, I think a lot of his "my way or the highway" attitude is a sales tactic.

There are definitely better programs nowadays. Apps are also available that mimic the simplicity of those early SS and SL programs. There is also video check ins so coaches can tweak form. I do agree that Rippetoe's philosophy on training is a bit dated. I still believe his cues are still ok for beginners to learn from although there are better options. Some beginners folks are ok with the simple explanation while others need more instruction. If it works for a particular newbie then go for it. His diet and conditioning advice is pretty bad though. I am definitely not a hater but I will admit there are probably better coaching resources out nowadays. There are so many good resources and trainers out there.

@pokerandbeer What I mean by top athlete is like a current top tier powerlifter or strength athlete. That is his area of expertise? I am not denying he helped put a ton of barbells on the backs of many beginners. It just seems like the top or popular guys in the sport are doing or training under someone else.

 

[National Acrobat]

If you're interested in being a mediocre powerlifter that looks like shit he's your guy.

Seriously though I think Rippetoe's stubbornness has done him a real disservice. If you've watched some of his more recent youtube videos he surrounds himself with the biggest f@ggot yes-men losers you can find. He isolates himself with weak fucks who are willing to stroke his ego for what has to be awful pay. If he had been more willing to work with others (Barbell Medicine for example) he would be a much more well regarded, perhaps beloved, figure in the world of strength training as Starting Strength played a not insignificant role in the explosion of raw lifting in the late 2000's.

An example of this isolation: I was perusing the starting strength forums, had to be 2014 or 2015 sometime, and someone posted a video of Dan Green training. This is prime time Dan Green, Boss of Bosses, Raw Unity, all that shit. And Mark's like 'well this guy seems very strong' trying to act like the shit wasnt impressive and clearly had no idea who the fuck Dan even was. The problem here was that Mark's whole fucking thing was raw lifting is better, this equipped stuff is terrible. And people were agreeing with that sentiment and began competing raw. But he was so committed to being an outsider a contrarian whatever that he couldn't even appreciate the fact that his side had won the argument and his books and programs were a part of the mainstreaming of raw powerlifting style training. He couldn't let go of the 'I'm right and everyone else is wrong'.

Now he's an old man with little to no relevance today. Hubris is a motherfucker, kids.

 

[Oblivian]

If you're interested in being a mediocre powerlifter that looks like shit he's your guy.

Seriously though I think Rippetoe's stubbornness has done him a real disservice. If you've watched some of his more recent youtube videos he surrounds himself with the biggest f@ggot yes-men losers you can find. He isolates himself with weak fucks who are willing to stroke his ego for what has to be awful pay. If he had been more willing to work with others (Barbell Medicine for example) he would be a much more well regarded, perhaps beloved, figure in the world of strength training as Starting Strength played a not insignificant role in the explosion of raw lifting in the late 2000's.

An example of this isolation: I was perusing the starting strength forums, had to be 2014 or 2015 sometime, and someone posted a video of Dan Green training. This is prime time Dan Green, Boss of Bosses, Raw Unity, all that shit. And Mark's like 'well this guy seems very strong' trying to act like the shit wasnt impressive and clearly had no idea who the fuck Dan even was. The problem here was that Mark's whole fucking thing was raw lifting is better, this equipped stuff is terrible. And people were agreeing with that sentiment and began competing raw. But he was so committed to being an outsider a contrarian whatever that he couldn't even appreciate the fact that his side had won the argument and his books and programs were a part of the mainstreaming of raw powerlifting style training. He couldn't let go of the 'I'm right and everyone else is wrong'.

Now he's an old man with little to no relevance today. Hubris is a motherfucker, kids.

He was probably mad that Dan Green front squats. Again, with typical Rippetoe attitude, he says no one needs to front squat besides olympic lifters. If only Dan Green would've listened to Rip.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

If you're interested in being a mediocre powerlifter that looks like shit he's your guy.

Seriously though I think Rippetoe's stubbornness has done him a real disservice. If you've watched some of his more recent youtube videos he surrounds himself with the biggest f@ggot yes-men losers you can find. He isolates himself with weak fucks who are willing to stroke his ego for what has to be awful pay. If he had been more willing to work with others (Barbell Medicine for example) he would be a much more well regarded, perhaps beloved, figure in the world of strength training as Starting Strength played a not insignificant role in the explosion of raw lifting in the late 2000's.

An example of this isolation: I was perusing the starting strength forums, had to be 2014 or 2015 sometime, and someone posted a video of Dan Green training. This is prime time Dan Green, Boss of Bosses, Raw Unity, all that shit. And Mark's like 'well this guy seems very strong' trying to act like the shit wasnt impressive and clearly had no idea who the fuck Dan even was. The problem here was that Mark's whole fucking thing was raw lifting is better, this equipped stuff is terrible. And people were agreeing with that sentiment and began competing raw. But he was so committed to being an outsider a contrarian whatever that he couldn't even appreciate the fact that his side had won the argument and his books and programs were a part of the mainstreaming of raw powerlifting style training. He couldn't let go of the 'I'm right and everyone else is wrong'.

Now he's an old man with little to no relevance today. Hubris is a motherfucker, kids.

Why Would he collaborate with barbell medicine so that he can con people into paying 60 bucks a pop for 12 week RPE cycles that do not even work? Pull the wool over your eyes and realize Rippetoe is just not the problem here.

 

[National Acrobat]

He was probably mad that Dan Green front squats. Again, with typical Rippetoe attitude, he says no one needs to front squat besides olympic lifters. If only Dan Green would've listened to Rip.

I remember Mark did an interview with Dan John back in the day, had to be 2010ish, and the front squat came up. Dan says I like the front squat because it forces the lifter into a good upright position and if they lose position the weight dumps forward no biggie. It coaches itself to a certain extent. Mark replies yeah but the back squat is better for strength. Dan's like yeah i don't disagree but have you ever tried coaching room of 30 14 year olds at the same time? Mark says no. Dan goes well if you had then you might feel different about the applicability of the front squat here. Mark just blows him off like yeah i don't think i would haha

Like damn man, zero ability to even contemplate maybe this person knows something, maybe they have a perspective worth giving some thought to. Nope. Just fuck you back squats are better.

 

[National Acrobat]

Why Would he collaborate with barbell medicine so that he can con people into paying 60 bucks a pop for 12 week RPE cycles that do not even work? Pull the wool over your eyes and realize Rippetoe is just not the problem here.

Lol. He did collaborate with them. Then broke it off because he was mad RPE was a part of their methodology and they weren't simply pushing his programs as they had been written 10 years prior.

 

[Baby Hanma]

If you're interested in being a mediocre powerlifter that looks like shit he's your guy.

Seriously though I think Rippetoe's stubbornness has done him a real disservice. If you've watched some of his more recent youtube videos he surrounds himself with the biggest f@ggot yes-men losers you can find. He isolates himself with weak fucks who are willing to stroke his ego for what has to be awful pay. If he had been more willing to work with others (Barbell Medicine for example) he would be a much more well regarded, perhaps beloved, figure in the world of strength training as Starting Strength played a not insignificant role in the explosion of raw lifting in the late 2000's.

An example of this isolation: I was perusing the starting strength forums, had to be 2014 or 2015 sometime, and someone posted a video of Dan Green training. This is prime time Dan Green, Boss of Bosses, Raw Unity, all that shit. And Mark's like 'well this guy seems very strong' trying to act like the shit wasnt impressive and clearly had no idea who the fuck Dan even was. The problem here was that Mark's whole fucking thing was raw lifting is better, this equipped stuff is terrible. And people were agreeing with that sentiment and began competing raw. But he was so committed to being an outsider a contrarian whatever that he couldn't even appreciate the fact that his side had won the argument and his books and programs were a part of the mainstreaming of raw powerlifting style training. He couldn't let go of the 'I'm right and everyone else is wrong'.

Now he's an old man with little to no relevance today. Hubris is a motherfucker, kids.

I once trolled him in the Starting Strength forums. It was funny.

Him and his disciples think his training program is the only proper way to train. Somebody recommended to me Rip's Starting Strength program and then I said...

"That's gross. I'm already on Doug Hepburn's training system. Why on earth would I settle with this garbage you call 'Basic Barbell Training'?"

I got banned. But before he banned me, Rippetoe said this...

"What is it about trolling a forum that makes your tiny dick hard? I will never understand this motivation."

I love it.

 

[Pitbull]

First of all, please keep in mind that I said “one of the best”. Not “the best”.

It‘s three things. Number one, sheer fame. Number two, the dude just makes sense. Number three, he is old and experienced. The dude is literally friends with Bill Starr who wrote the legendary The Strongest Shall Survive.

I myself follow Doug Hepburn’s training system, but I do have to give credit to Rippetoe for being a voice for barbell training in America. And he’s no pushover either. In his prime, he deadlifted what? 580 pounds?

Fame? So writing a book and being known on social media means he might be one of the best? Fame is a silly reason. There's loads of people with lot's of followers that are clueless.

Makes sense? The guy has the all or nothing attitude that is a massive red flag. If anyone claims there is a best way, or an exercise should be done a certain way (low bar as an example) or certain amount of reps a set is best, they should be ignored. They most likely have something to sell!

Old and experienced? He was friends with someone and he's old.

These are hardly convincing reasons he's one of the best. He's great at marketing. I'll give him that.

 

[Volador]

Rippetoe should be acknowledged for how much he did to bring barbell training and simple, general ideas about training to the forefront for young gymbros around the world. This, as contrasted to men.com 3x10 curls nonsense, was a good thing. He is also a likable and often hilarious guy to listen to.

With that said, there are many things to criticize. Nearly all of Rip’s advice on diet and conditioning is nonsense. He actively crusades against bodybuilding or conditioning, it seems like there’s almost a moral ingredient to that part, pretty weird. He just wants people to be as large as possible at all costs, and at all times, and considers strength superior to cardio in some moral sense. Same with his obsession with the squat. Some of his programs lack upper body volume for some trainees, but there’s little flexibility to add it, at the same time. It’s particularly funny because one of the SS coach guys who sucks up to him on his podcast is an unfathomably unhealthy looking fat guy.

He also disregards a bunch of training ideas, often with no good reason. His advice that Olympic lifters should train low bar (in fact, everybody should according to Rip) seems to be at odds with nearly every Olympic coach/trainee, but he will not listen and just say they’re idiots. His idea that RPE is a sort of scheme to get people to buy programs makes no sense either, there’s tons of empirical evidence to the contrary, with lifters making improvements on those programs. The avoidance of machines at all costs is mostly pointless as well. Similarly, a lot of his stances seem to be based, not on evidence, but on adopting a particular training/diet philosophy early on, and adhering almost religiously, while discounting everyone who disagrees. It’s not really the way that evidence based stuff is commonly conducted. If you look at other coaches, you will see them constantly experimenting with different things and reading new studies to find out what happens when you eat this or that thing, or use some particular training protocol. Rip seems to think he’s figured it all out, but a large part of his beliefs are kind of plucked out of thin air.