What you need to know about Fedor

[OldBoy91]

Dude, are you serious? Yuji Nagata was a pro wrestler who never once medaled in national or international competition as an amateur wrestler. And you somehow extrapolate that as him having "serious credentials"? That's actually absurd. World class? He didn't even make top 16 at the Worlds, much less the Olympics...

Furthermore, only ONE of the guys Zulu beat prior to facing Fedor had more wins than losses when he fought Zulu.

You have completely undermined any legitimacy you may have previously enjoyed with that post, and I'd honestly recommend that you petition a mod to delete it. Please bear in mind the fact that I ABSOLUTELY LOVE FEDOR and am in no way disputing the notion that he is the greatest fighter ever to compete in MMA.

Nah, you're wrong man. None of us mere mortals can compete intellectually with ths guy. Average feeble minds like ours just can't comprehend his genius. Ask him, he'll tell you so himself. He's going to be vindicated in the future when everybody realizes he was right all along, he's just so ahead of the times.

On a side note I really encourage people to check out his Bigfoot/HMC thread if you want a masterclass in crazy. I mean, that's if Nagata being a "world class wrestler with better stand up than Brock Lesnar" isn't confirmation enough.

 

[kikikhan]

@JKS- Good post. I mostly agree, again. I just think that Werdum having decisively beaten the other three HW GOATs throws a mighty large spanner in the works. I think it's hard to argue that if he isn't there already, a few more top wins and he has a case to at least equal Fedor.

I can eat this argument and sh*t it out in seconds.

How long has Werdum reign as the nr. 1 fighter in MMA lasted?

Let me help you. He won 2 fights for this position. Hasn't defended it once.

Fedor has won 19 such fights with most of them being top competition (In his reign he had 11 top 10 HW wins, 2 top 15 HW wins, beat 2 olympic medalists, beat 2 giant fighters with good fighting credentials, beat a world class wrestler with better standup than Brock had and beat Valavicius, The last two he beat for extra money, because he was earning only 10 000 $ per fight in Pride until he renegotiated after the Nagata fight).

His reign lasted 7 years and 3 months. He was undefeated for 10 years at HW.

The GOAT has to be a long reigning nr. 1 FFS.

Minotauro defended his nr. 1 position 6 freaking times.

Bas Rutter gets overlooked, but he defended the nr. 1 position in MMA 11 times.

Royce defended it 10 times.

Ken defended it 2x.

Overeem and Cain defended it 1x each.

Werdum hasn't defended it once.

These are all facts.

Timing is important. You can't just say this fighter beat this fighter and this fighter.

What good is it if someone beat all great guys, but has never even defended his belt?

You are just listing names that you think are deserving competition, while I use facts and decide based on them.

I have a hard time placing pioneers like Ken, Royce and Bas though, but they deserve their place in GOAT discussions.

 

[Mondo Freaks]

Great ring fighter and GOAT of ring fighting but got exposed in a cage.

Thats pretty much all you need to know about Fedor. Also, he is deeply religious.

 

[ForbiddenSun]

soo because a fighter that went undfeated for 10 years in an undersized wieght class finally lost a few fights out of his prime it means hes not the goat? So because mj didn't play like he did with the wizards as he did with the bulls he isn't the goat of nba? lmao

/thread

 

[kikikhan]

Dude, are you serious? Yuji Nagata was a pro wrestler who never once medaled in national or international competition as an amateur wrestler. And you somehow extrapolate that as him having "serious credentials"? That's actually absurd. World class? He didn't even make top 16 at the Worlds, much less the Olympics...

Furthermore, only ONE of the guys Zulu beat prior to facing Fedor had more wins than losses when he fought Zulu.

You have completely undermined any legitimacy you may have previously enjoyed with that post, and I'd honestly recommend that you petition a mod to delete it. Please bear in mind the fact that I ABSOLUTELY LOVE FEDOR and am in no way disputing the notion that he is the greatest fighter ever to compete in MMA.

Nagata competed on a world class level in wrestling making him a world class wrestler. I didn't say he was a world champion... He was a national champ in Japan. I find this pretty impressive.

Zulu allegedly had a record of 38 wins and 0 losses (all KOs). I never said anything about his opponents. But he was undefeated + purple belt in BJJ.

These are facts and you can cry about it all you want.

Everything I wrote in the previous post is true.

I told you guys to take this wins for what they are.

Now answer this. Did Nagata compete with the best wrestlers in the world?

Was Zulu huge, undefeated, with all wins by KO's?


Yes, so what is your problem? What did I say that was a lie?

 

[jawlock]

Butthurt detected

 

[kikikhan]

From the Wkipedia

"Before turning professional, Nagata was a successful amateur wrestler. Competing in the Greco-Roman style, Nagata represented Japan in the Asian Championships twice, placing fifth in 1993 and placing fourth in 1994, in one World Cup at the Espoir level in 1988, and in the 1991 World Championships, placing twenty-first."

His accolades are hardly even impressive, he is mainly known as a wrestler, but remmeber he fought Fedor not under the pride banner but under Inoki Bom-Ba-Ye which was about wrestlers vs mma fighters.

Making him a world class wrestler.

So USA national champions are all impressive, but others are crap?

 

[Adamant]

Someone recently made a thread touting Fedor's accomplishments.
http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f2...ile-winning-gold-medals-combat-sambo-3014155/

That's all fine and well. But if you've been on the heavies for any amount of time you'll know that there's been a push to recognize Fedor as the greatest. That was likely the underlying motive of the above thread, implying that Fedor is the GOAT. The thread has gotten a lot of hits while the mods have let it stay in the heavies even though Fedor didn't fight in the UFC.

Well, as a believer that Fedor isn't the greatest. I want to put something out there that will rival the above thread.

MMA fans must be reminded that 98% of Fedor's success came in Pride, the shadiest MMA organization in the history of the world. Once Fedor came to America we know what happened. It became clear he was not the GOAT, just one of many really good fighters. Don't buy into the propaganda! Now let's see if the MODs get rid of my very reasonable thread just because it's not kissing Fedor's ass, but instead telling the truth.

Post-Pride Fedor was out of his prime and in fact looked like a completely differerent fighter. More sluggish, less explosive, and just all around not as determined. In Pride, he had the mindset he wanted to go out and destroy his opponent. Post-Pride (after finding faith) suddenly everything that happened was "God's will" and he just didn't have the same fire.

Big difference.

 

[Glove]

Making him a world class wrestler.

So USA national champions are all impressive, but others are crap?

Not at all, i was trying to tell him that Nagata did have some wrestling experience outside of the NJPW.

 

[kikikhan]

Nah, you're wrong man. None of us mere mortals can compete intellectually with ths guy. Average feeble minds like ours just can't comprehend his genius. Ask him, he'll tell you so himself. He's going to be vindicated in the future when everybody realizes he was right all along, he's just so ahead of the times.

On a side note I really encourage people to check out his Bigfoot/HMC thread if you want a masterclass in crazy. I mean, that's if Nagata being a "world class wrestler with better stand up than Brock Lesnar" isn't confirmation enough.

Yeah sure. You decide what is impressive or not, huh?

World class wrestlers are all that compete in international competitions. National champions of various nations. Nagata was one of them. And he showed better standup than Brock, from what I've seen. brock's standup was dangerous, but he was very awkward.

Answer me this. When has Fedor tried to go from half guard to ful guard vs BF? He did it very nicely vs Choi. Vs BF, he looked like he fell asleep. Maybe he thought he will be strong enough to throw BF off when fully mounted, but I don't know why he didn't try to use the ful guard vs such a big guy.

I can see the difference, but you just say, no no BF was a BJJ black belt, of course Fedor was just as good as he's always been, but BF was just too good. That is lazy of you.

 

[kikikhan]

Not at all, i was trying to tell him that Nagata did have some wrestling experience outside of the NJPW.

Well, you said that he didn' have impressive credentials.

Being a national champ is impressive to me.

But OK. I know you mean well

 

[Flokk]

Fuck this thread. Shit's like saying Babe Ruth or Mantle or whomever are less great and iconic because the sport evolved since their day. It takes a special kind of asshat to try and besmirch via time travel.

 

[Glove]

Well, you said that he didn' have impressive credentials.

Being a national champ is impressive to me.

But OK. I know you mean well

Well i should have been more clear, as opposed to Fedor his credentials weren't nowhere near as impressive.

 

[hypocalking]

TS is a moron. Probably works for the UFC.

 

[kikikhan]

Well i should have been more clear, as opposed to Fedor his credentials weren't nowhere near as impressive.

Well, yeah, his MMA credentials weren't even close.

He only lost to prime CC and Prime Fedor though, so how much can you really tell about him in MMA. But he had decent martial arts credentials with his amateur wrestling and he impressed me with his standup vs Fedor.

Also styles make fights and style vs style was still a pretty big deal back then.

Nagata was also huge in Japan and Fedor needed that money

You know what? A Japanese Dana White would have hyped this fight as huge For him popular UFC fights are huge, but popular non UFC fights were freakshows

 

[Glove]

Well, yeah, his MMA credentials weren't even close.

He only lost to prime CC and Prime Fedor though, so how much can you really tell about him in MMA. But he had decent martial arts credentials with his amateur wrestling and he impressed me with his standup vs Fedor.

Also styles make fights and style vs style was still a pretty big deal back then.

Nagata was also huge in Japan and Fedor needed that money

You know what? A Japanese Dana White would have hyped this fight as huge For him popular UFC fights are huge, but popular non UFC fights were freakshows

You know many posters on here are quick to state that Japan wrestlers dont pose any sort of challenge, but in the heavyweight division all you need is a punchers chnace to win a fight. More so than any other division. Look at fighters like Cabbage Correira, Gan Mcgee etc. These guys had relatively long careers because they had good power, but almost next to nothing ground wise.

 

[Le Smish Smosh**]

So here are the facts. Fedor fought a total of 35 opponents in his career. Of these 35 opponents, he was smaller than 13 of them, the same size as 16 of them and bigger than 6 of them. What this means is that throughout his career Fedor was either the same size or actually had a size advantage over a whopping 63% of his opponents.

Thats nice and all but you could have also worded it as: "throughout his career Fedor was either the same size or was much smaller than a whopping 80% of his opponents"

Biased post is biased

 

[JKS]

@JKS- Good post. I mostly agree, again. I just think that Werdum having decisively beaten the other three HW GOATs throws a mighty large spanner in the works. I think it's hard to argue that if he isn't there already, a few more top wins and he has a case to at least equal Fedor.

I think Werdum has a good shot here. He's 20-5 and he has many quality wins, Nog, Fedor, Cain, all elite, Hunt, Browne, Bigfoot, Nelson, Overeem. Thats 8/20 right there in addition to Gonzaga 2x, Brandon Vera, Alex....were talking 11/20 top 10 caliber guys at the time. I think Werdum is higher then Cain and JDS and right behind Big Nog. I got him at #3 all time.

If Werdum can be a dominant champ in the UFC and beat JDS, Andrei, Stipe and Overeem, 3-4 title defense. I certainly put him over Big Nog. As for Fedor I think it makes it a interesting debate at that point. But he needs that string where he goes undefeated for a while and is a clear best HW or a certain era. If he beats those guys he will be undefeated in 5 years and have 10 straight wins. Overall since 2009 he would have 1 loss and like 13 wins.

 

[JKS]

Not really fair is it? Fedor was in danger of losing any of those fights. No matter how small the chances. At HW it's dangerous. Choi and Zulu were f*ckinghuge fighters with serious martial arts credentials. Nagata had serious credentials too. No need to say how great these wins were, just take them for what they are.

Fedor beat a huge K-1 kickboxer/ssireum wrestling champ in Choi.

He beat a huge undefeated/alleged KO machine vale tudo fighter in Zulu.

He beat a world class wrestler with better standup than Brock Lesnar in Nagata.

Not just beat them, beat them quickly and in very entertaining way.

I find this impressive.

I don't use these wins as a proof of his GOATness, but he worked to win and you should be fair and take this wins for what they are.

Sure its impressive, it certainly doesnt make him look bad in any way...a win is a win. But this is just my own opinion and perception. But I am pretty much saying what you are. I dont consider this as proof of him being the best HW but they are wins and show his dominance.

 

[Jermei]

TS is a moron. Probably works for the UFC.

UFC shills run rampant here and you're probably right.