What's the argument for Floyd being "greater" than Muhammad Ali?

[burningspear]

Hagler got robbed, he won that fight against Leonard

Close fights can't be called robberies buddy. Its a doozy to score.

 

[defjaam]

Hagler got robbed, he won that fight against Leonard

Razor close fights hardly qualify as robberies. There are a million of examples of those type of fights - was Ali / Norton already mentioned in this thread?

Personally I don't see 7 clear Hagler rounds. You disagree. A third person may agree with you, a 4th person may agree with me,.......

 

[Joshua N]

Both of these boxers are unique . Both of these boxers are great showmen. But Ali is an ocean and Floyd is a drop of rain

 

[SandisLL]

Yeah.
Frazier was disfavoured by business for sales vs Ali, BTW. Still, Frazier was amateur star, Olympic gold medalist like Ali.
Foreman was very smart and powerful, this ouptointed his slow speed and he & Shavers in 70 ies were most powferful punchers in pro HW world too.
Damn, real respect to anyone that ever stepped in ring with them.
Earlier, Liston in 60 ies was one from TOP2 hardest hitting HW boxers in world.
Yeah, Ali was only one that was able to continue fight after defeated Liston.
Another guy clearly had won Liston, but he wasn't able to fight in ring after this fight.
Liston is undervalued, especially power and danger from his blows.

 

[Prefect]

Floyd wins the longevity test, as he was the pound for pound no.1 boxer on the planet at 38 yrs of age, which as far as I can tell no other boxer in history can claim. Ironically the next highest on the list would be ALi who I felt was the best in the game until 35/36.

Ali beat better fighters, but comparitively Floyd beat bigger ones. FLoyd was being outweighed on the scales by 10 pounds on fight night, throughout his career even going back to his super featherweight days. A problem Ali rarely, if ever had to face, big George foreman outweighted ali by 4 pounds only, in the rumble in the jungle

Ali didn't fight better fighters. The heavyweight division is always thin compared to the other divisions. Floyd went through much better fighters in his career. Hatton, Marquez, Pac, Alvarez, Cotto, Dela Hoy, Mosley, Judah, and Castillo. That is at a minimum 7 hall of famers.

 

[SandisLL]

Ali didn't fight better fighters.

Lol, like Liston ( sorry, he in his prime was able to KO more than 5 from current HWs prizefigthing TOP 10 ). Frazier and Foreman, and Shavers etc.

That is at a minimum 7 hall of famers.

Entertainment hall of fame.
--------
Floyd does have worse real resume than his uncles, not to talk about Pacman or Ali.
LOL.

 

[Seano]

Lol, like Liston ( sorry, he in his prime was able to KO more than 5 from current HWs prizefigthing TOP 10 ). Frazier and Foreman, and Shavers etc.

Entertainment hall of fame.
--------
Floyd does have worse real resume than his uncles, not to talk about Pacman or Ali.
LOL.

You're telling me that Juan Manuel Marquez is not a legitimate hall of fame caliber fighter?

 

[SandisLL]

I don't care about prizegting entertaiment business.
Especially for murcian public.

 

[SandisLL]

I'm telling not only to you but also to other entertainement fans.
ENTERTAINMENT BUSINESS doesn't depend from another entertainment, retail store and so on….
Let's sell and it doesn't matters for me nor belts nor pro entertainers tittles, nor $, LOL, Bing Bang.

 

[SandisLL]

hall of fame

ENTERTAINMENT BUSINESS HELL ( HALL ) of FAME.

 

[Seano]

ENTERTAINMENT BUSINESS HELL ( HALL ) of FAME.

I asked you to clarify what you meant, not repeat it.

 

[SandisLL]

I asked you to clarify what you meant, not repeat it.

Ar you too selfish?
Your attention to fighters with non U.S origin too is beautiful, BTW.

YOU DIDN'T get that for me BOYS like Floyd Jr, Pac etc are ENTERTAINMENT BUSINESSMANS.

---

 

[Seano]

Ar you too selfish?
Your attention to fighters with non U.S origin too is beautiful, BTW.

YOU DIDN'T get that for me BOYS like Floyd Jr, Pac etc are ENTERTAINMENT BUSINESSMANS.

---

And Ali wasn't?

 

[SandisLL]

This later, like Frazier, Foreman and Ali too, Ward too etc.
---

 

[r-harper-1]

Sugar Ray Leonard suffered a detached retina, retired in '82, fought once in 5 years, challenged Hagler, beat him. This sort of thing ranks him and Ali above Floyd. When did Floyd ever overcome insurmountable odds? To be the greatest, you need to do great things, take great risks, not just have a pretty record.

Fighting Canelo was seen as a big risk at the time .....not anymore?

 

[burningspear]

@Seano

 

[aries]

Fighting Canelo was seen as a big risk at the time .....not anymore?

No he wasn't. Most said he was too young and inexperienced for Floyd and that proved to be the case.

 

[Shoemaker]

You're telling me that Juan Manuel Marquez is not a legitimate hall of fame caliber fighter?

That guys is the textbook definition of argumentative. He doesn't even pretend to make an attempt to understand what you're talking about; he just accuses you of being too American and rambles on about nothing.

 

[Bogotazo]

The focus here has to be on the quality of opponents they faced. Floyd traversed multiple weight classes in a way Ali never could, but it really was a golden age at Heavyweight and Ali essentially dominated it.

What I like to do is list their 10 or so best wins in order altogether and see who has more towards the top end of the list.

George Foreman
Joe Frazier (2)
Manny Pacquiao
Sonny Liston
Oscar De La Hoya
Diego Corrales
Ron Lyle
Jose Luis Castillo
Floyd Patterson
Ken Norton
Leon Spinks
Miguel Cotto

I would probably go back and change a few things with more thought, but I think I'm pretty firm on the first 6 or so, and Ali pretty clearly takes it. If it weren't for the Pacquiao win, which came way later than it should have, Ali would have 4 of the 5 best wins on the list. (And someone could probably argue him into that as it is anyway given the context of various bouts.)

 

[MeBig]

he’s an undefeated 5 division champion who found ways to beat and even dominate multiple future hall of famers and countless championship mettle fighters of every style imaginable. Ali was great but much of his fame can be attributed to his political stance during a period that the country was shedding the established orthodoxy of the time. It brought a lot of attention to him and opened the door for that day’s casual (for lack of a better term) to mimic the things he was saying. Ali was in a great era of heavyweights that was extremely competitive but he did lose. All Floyd did for 25 years in pro boxing is win at the absolute highest level fight after fight after fight. No excuses only W’s.