why does it fall upon USADA to clear Jones?

[JosephDredd]

You didn’t answer my question.

You: yes or no question

Me: no

You: you didn't answer my question

Me:

 

[kflo]

You: yes or no question

Me: no

You: you didn't answer my question

Me:

My question was if he was already suspended and it was highly likely he didn’t ingest anything illegal subsequently do you agree he shouldn’t be punished again. You answered by saying he did cheat again. That’s not the question.

 

[The Clark]

You: yes or no question

Me: no

You: you didn't answer my question

Me:

Dude is a cheap contrarian troll. Just save yourself some time and ignore.

 

[JosephDredd]

My question was if he was already suspended and it was highly likely he didn’t ingest anything illegal subsequently do you agree he shouldn’t be punished again. You answered by saying he did cheat again. That’s not the question.

You asked if I acknowledged blah blah and I said, "No, that's stupid." meaning I don't acknowledge it.

Words, how do they work? Motherfucking magic up in this bitch.

 

[kflo]

You asked if I acknowledged blah blah and I said, "No, that's stupid." meaning I don't acknowledge it.

Words, how do they work? Motherfucking magic up in this bitch.

So if a fighter has traces of a metabolite for years, was already suspended and hasn’t cheated since, you’re saying they should be suspended over and over even if they didn’t do anything wrong.

By the way, you didn’t acknowledge the premise. You didn’t answer the question.

 

[JosephDredd]

So if a fighter has traces of a metabolite for years, was already suspended and hasn’t cheated since, you’re saying they should be suspended over and over even if they didn’t do anything wrong.

We don't know that he hasn't cheated since. There is no scientific proof of t-bol pulsing, nor has any fighter encountered this problem (excuse?) before.

By the way, you didn’t acknowledge the premise. You didn’t answer the question.

Try asking the question in a way that isn't stupid. As it was written, no, I don't acknowledge your bullshit.

 

[tenniswhiz]

No, it's not. Their job is to test Jones and if Jones pisses hot it's his job to prove his innocence.

Not any more

 

[Simian Raticus]

Do you realize how big picogram per mL is? It's big enough to fail multiple tests. Which, up until this case, was a sign of micro-dosing.

The whole picograms thing is a massive red herring.

We got told a story about smashing a grain of salt into a bazillion pieces so that we’d all be like - oh that sounds really small so whatever.

In reality the vast majority of us don’t know enough for that to be tangible information. We’ve got no idea what the implications are of that level of metabolite as far as what Jon may or may not have been up to during his camp.

It’s nothing but obfuscation,

 

[blaseblah]

They have the fact that jones tested positive for a banned sustance. That's all the "evidence" they need and have ever used before to suspend any other fighter. Now that's it's jon "rat-bones" jones, they're re-writing the playbook and coming up with cockamamie excuses for why it's ok that he's violating the anti-doping rules.

I think they just don't want to have to go to court and have their lack of knowledge exposed.

 

[blaseblah]

So if a fighter has traces of a metabolite for years, was already suspended and hasn’t cheated since, you’re saying they should be suspended over and over even if they didn’t do anything wrong.

By the way, you didn’t acknowledge the premise. You didn’t answer the question.

Let's be clear, there is no evidence Turinabol metabolites can remain in the body for years. None at all.

 

[Tylerl90]

Hasn't the "microdosing" theory you keep citing been discredited by the doping experts that Jeff cited? Because from what I understood, it'd be impossible for Jones to ingest a small enough amount for it to register in only picogram levels. You may not believe the pulsing explanation and that's fine, but this microdose theory everyone keeps citing is complete bullshit.

That's coming from chemist, not Sherdog.

They don't have evidence that "pulsing" is even a thing.

What they have is multiple failed tests in amounts that, in every other case except for this one, are indicative of micro-dosing.

By accepting this unproven, never-before-seen explanation of "pulsing" being responsible for the failed tests, USADA is essentially indeed proffering a defense for him by clearing him without proof.

 

[Loiosh]

It is when he asserts an affirmative "residual pulsing" defense

Except Jones never had to proffer a defense because USADA did it for him. Which is absurd and unprecedented

 

[JosephDredd]

Hasn't the "microdosing" theory you keep citing been discredited by the doping experts that Jeff cited? Because from what I understood, it'd be impossible for Jones to ingest a small enough amount for it to register in only picogram levels. You may not believe the pulsing explanation and that's fine, but this microdose theory everyone keeps citing is complete bullshit.

That's coming from chemist, not Sherdog.

Earlier in the year (March?), Victor Conte said the most likely explanation is that t-bol is in Jones system because he was micro-dosing testosterone that was tainted with t-bol. That still stands up as a very likely explanation... more likely than what the UFC is alleging now, with zero scientific proof and zero precedent.

 

[Loiosh]

Has anyone read the USADA statement?
According to their Twitter release on 12/23 Jones is not in violation. USADA is the testing body. The event is being relocated because the sanctioning body (NAC) has called it off.

another thing, these scientific experts here on Sherdog, do you realize how small picogram per mL is? I haven't done the weight correction but if you assume the metabolite is the same weight as water this represents part per billion range.

Didn't someone else get two years for the same amount?

 

[Tylerl90]

Buddy it's not what the UFC is alleging, it's what USADA said in their own words.

Jones is REALLY hard to defend, and he has probably certainly cheated at some point. But you can't discredit someone just because you don't like the result. If USADA can detect "picogram" levels of substances, I find it HIGHLY unlikely they wouldn't notice wacky T/E ratios that coincide with this turinabol excretion.

Earlier in the year (March?), Victor Conte said the most likely explanation is that t-bol is in Jones system because he was micro-dosing testosterone that was tainted with t-bol. That still stands up as a very likely explanation... more likely than what the UFC is alleging now, with zero scientific proof and zero precedent.

 

[blaseblah]

Hasn't the "microdosing" theory you keep citing been discredited by the doping experts that Jeff cited? Because from what I understood, it'd be impossible for Jones to ingest a small enough amount for it to register in only picogram levels. You may not believe the pulsing explanation and that's fine, but this microdose theory everyone keeps citing is complete bullshit.

That's coming from chemist, not Sherdog.

Picograms are the amount in his system at the time of the test, not the amount he ingested. Do people really not understand how this works?

 

[Tylerl90]

I do understand, man. But there's also the fact that they never once found the short or medium term metabolites of the parent substance, and that can't be ignored.

Picograms are the amount in his system at the time of the test, not the amount he ingested. Do people really not understand how this works?

 

[blaseblah]

I do understand, man. But there's also the fact that they never once found the short or medium term metabolites of the parent substance, and that can't be ignored.

Why would they? The medium term metabolites are only detectable up to 22 days, likely far less. After his last failed test they spent a year not testing him.

 

[Tylerl90]

Again, we don't know that. 22 days is an estimate, and nothing more or less. We know it's an estimate because as it's been discussed before, turinabol has never underwent long-term human studies.

Why would they? The medium term metabolites are only detectable up to 22 days, likely far less. After his last failed test they spent a year not testing him.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

I mean, a burden is definitely on him. Yes, because the claim of cheating is on USADA to prove, they must provide it. But the thing not to forget is the test is the proof.

From that point, the burden of providing counter evidence to try and weaken their claim of cheating is on him from that point. He already starts set a point of guilt and must push back on it.