Why don’t some people accept that Poverty in America is a lifestyle choice?

[Falsedawn]

The numbers in your post suggest that it is indeed a 'lifestyle choice' yet you post a laughy face.

Even an adult with a severe skill/earning deficit who spent their entire life making $7 an hour wouldn't meet the poverty threshold — and the US poverty threshold is an arbitrary figure nowhere near actual/absolute poverty to begin with.

Barring freak accidents/drug habits/etc. if you work full time, realize you can't live in San Francisco and have an income-proportionate number of offspring, you won't live in poverty.

Now let's examine the number of people making $7 their entire life who don't have a drug habit or poor family planning etc... Those are life choices.

Source it.

Because 3k above the poverty line is that category of people generally known as the working poor, who may have to have two or three jobs to make ends meet. There's nothing in that number indicative of a "lifestyle choice" especially considering that rent and transportation could EASILY eat that up on a monthly basis. There's a really fucking good reason welfare benefits are usually capped at 130% of the poverty line, because it's still fucking poor. Yes, that's the absolute line unless you want to start comparing to third world countries, in which case you would have to consider way more factors than just income. It would be asinine to make that comparison, but agendas gonna agenda I guess.

 

[ManCityFC9]

I don't want to retype my entire post to someone else but those things don't assure a higher income. The example I was using elsewhere is that in 2015, the unemployment rate for new chemistry majors was 12.4%. Those are people with a STEM degree whole presumably worked very hard. The Comp Sci rate was almost 8% in 2013. Both of those are pretty high for degree choices that people claim are a path to general financial stability.

Now, assuming that you are landing employment in those fields, they pay very well, so there is that. And the unemployment rate at the PhD level is extremely low, which is great assuming you have PHD level ability.

But I don't think people understand just how much the requisite skill level for entry has changed in many professions.

But my larger point is that the current economy is a bigger driver of whether or not someone will remain poor than it gets credit for.

There will never be such a thing as 100% unemployment, but with the current obsolescence of most blue collar work, it's still a much smarter move to educate oneself as opposed to trying to find a lower skilled work as a long term solution.
-the economy, with respects to blue collar professions, has taken the biggest hit of all and automation makes it unlikely to recover in the long term.

http://www.esa.doc.gov/sites/default/files/stem-jobs-2017-update.pdf
-page 2 summarizes the findings of this paper
(STEM job growth, particularly for those with degrees are expected to be higher when compared to non-stem jobs)
--the truth is even some non-STEM degrees and certificates (JD, (M)BA, PMP) still hold their value in terms of life long earnings when compared to not having any post-HS education/certification.

In terms of the economic state having an impact as to someone increasing their quality of life, that is a given.
-but the economy is cyclic in its nature; skills/education > jobs > to spending/investment > growth > job opportunities(which require education to attain), etc.

Back to the original point:
the fact is good work ethic (especially with furthering ones studies, skill and education levels,( Masters w/experience seem to be the new minimum)) and adapting a more simplistic lifestyle to which one can live within their means is still the best recipe for success in the world.
(i.e. home ownership and investment ability, lead to increased wealth, etc.)

The OP was bluntly stated but fairly accurate as to 2 key parts of the formula
(increased income + lower expenditure can be attained with focused efforts and controlled spending habits)
-there are some obstacles certain groups may have compared to others; but the formula, albeit more difficult for some, still holds.
--Fact is, no one is going to nor entitled to "help you out" in any significant way and there has to be accountability to the individual themselves as opposed to a "system or entity holding them down."
One can scream and be a victim of whatever prejudice but the fact of the matter is you need to earn your money and budget yourself in order to attain any wealth in this world.

This is an interesting topic because you hear this type of hopeless mindset abundant in cities and also hear the instant refusal of college or willingness to invest in oneself(student loan) for an affordable(community) college.
-It's quite sad

 

[AviatorShades]

Source it.

Because 3k above the poverty line is that category of people generally known as the working poor, who may have to have two or three jobs to make ends meet. There's nothing in that number indicative of a "lifestyle choice" especially considering that rent and transportation could EASILY eat that up on a monthly basis. There's a really fucking good reason welfare benefits are usually capped at 130% of the poverty line, because it's still fucking poor. Yes, that's the absolute line unless you want to start comparing to third world countries, in which case you would have to consider way more factors than just income. It would be asinine to make that comparison, but agendas gonna agenda I guess.

No that's not the 'absolute line'. Absolute poverty has a pretty specific definition and you aren't using it properly. Your own numbers showed that a total failure at life can still support themselves as long as they live within their means (ie fail to reproduce).

We are facing a global dysgenic crisis where the dumbest lowest quality families are by far the most fertile and rather than trying to find ways to counteract this, so many of you are exasperating the problem by trying to socially engineer the word 'poverty' to mean anyone incapable of supporting a family in the world's wealthiest nations.

Now if what you were saying was remotely true — that minimum wage in the US even vaguely resembles absolute poverty (when it doesn't even meet the far, far higher requirements for US relative poverty) then it would become some sort of humanitarian debate about a need for basic nutrition and shelter. Ensuring that everyone can afford to start a family or own subsidized luxury goods isn't humanitarian. It's regressive & a crime against future generations.

 

[FrankensteinMMA]

If you are an adult that works minimum wage, you clearly made MANY and REPETITIVE poor life choices....

Or you are literally handicapped or disabled, which ok that's not your fault.

If your job can be done by a HS student w/ zero training, it's not the man holding you down.....

so what do we do with all the people who make these poor choices? thats allot of people. we are not talking about serial murderers.

what causes people to make these choices?

I grew up around drug dealers (not my choice) I made it in life because I ran away from home( not a good idea to be young and on the streets).

when you are not taught wisdom at an early age you dont see "other choices" to make. some people dont come from stable safe environments.

people who usually misjudge the poor come from middle class families where they didnt struggle.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

If you want to talk about relative poverty on the global scale that's a very different conversation from what the OP was aiming at. Just to illustrate that point - worldwide poverty is a lifestyle choice. Don't people realize that if they just choose to come to the U.S. they will no longer be poor on the global scale? Bunch of slackers aren't trying hard enough to get here, lol.

The money is just available. You don't need a major life event, if you're willing to take the tax hit. And with very particular rules you use the money for a down payment or for medical expenses.

I pointed that out for perspective. It doesn't change the argument that the people who aspire to overcome poverty most likely can. In part thanks to the many people who simply choose not to.

No idea what you're talking about with 401(k)s. To my knowledge the law requires certain conditions be met in order to cash out a 401(k). And a 10% penalty for early withdrawal is not nothing. It's a restriction, albeit one that can be overcome. The money is not "just available". If you can source something that proves me wrong let's see it. Otherwise I'm basing this on my experience with the three employer plans I've taken part in. If it was just available I could wake up on Monday and withdraw it all. No life events or hardships required. No penalty. But I can't.

 

[HomerThompson]

Is it pure ignorance? Denial? Poverty in America is really inexcusable. I laugh when people talk about how people are “keeping them down”. Newsflash: CEO making bank doesn’t stop you from making bank.

The thing is these people simply lack work ethic and are bad with money. They blow all their funds on trash and if they actually work they don’t want to put in the extra hours or acquire a side hustle. Once I finish my Masters I am planning on working 5 jobs. My only problem is there isn’t enough hours in the week.

 

[FrankensteinMMA]

As someone who started out poor and is now pushing the top end of upper middle class i support this message.

same here but I dont approve of the message you are refering to.

you cant save money as an adult when you work minimum wage.

you cant complete h.s. when you have to work to help a single mom pay bills because the father left. I mean..you could join a gang and sell drugs...but then people will rag on you even more for being a "bum".

I dont know what kind of poverty you come from but where I came from it was normal to get shot just getting your mail after dark.

day by day living on a thread has no time for "investing".

 

[TSO]

same here but I dont approve of the message you are refering to.

you cant save money as an adult when you work minimum wage.

you cant complete h.s. when you have to work to help a single mom pay bills because the father left. I mean..you could join a gang and sell drugs...but then people will rag on you even more for being a "bum".

I dont know what kind of poverty you come from but where I came from it was normal to get shot just getting your mail after dark.

day by day living on a thread has no time for "investing".

We come from similar backgrounds. You have excuses, I have drive.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

so what do we do with all the people who make these poor choices? thats allot of people. we are not talking about serial murderers.

what causes people to make these choices?

I grew up around drug dealers (not my choice) I made it in life because I ran away from home( not a good idea to be young and on the streets).

when you are not taught wisdom at an early age you dont see "other choices" to make. some people dont come from stable safe environments.

people who usually misjudge the poor come from middle class families where they didnt struggle.

Or they live pervasively surrounded by them and deal with them daily...

 

[FrankensteinMMA]

We come from similar backgrounds. You have excuses, I have drive.

how do I have excuses when I said I made it. most of the kids I grew up with did not make it...coincidence? or is it because not everyone can handle the same situation the same way.

fun fact: not all military personal make it back from war...where the ones who got shot victim of circumstances or where they lazy?

Im a tough guy, im not tooting my horn but im genuinly not afraid of anyone.
my pride got me into trouble but also got my stuborn ass making allot of money. not everyone is like me.

 

[FrankensteinMMA]

Or they live pervasively surrounded by them and deal with them daily...

living in a poor mans home is not the same as seeing his house from outside.

 

[Lubaolong]

@HatchetHarry is the worst new poster of 2017.

 

[luckyshot]

People choose to work minimum wage jobs. These are jobs meant for high schoolers. Try harder

Are you @TheStruggle or @klmomega....

Doesn’t matter, same prick.

And you’ll committ e-suicide after you are thoroughly embarrassed and exposed with this new account, too.

 

[JohnnySagebrush]

@HatchetHarry is the worst new poster of 2017.

It’’s a straight troll account. Not sure why obvious trolls aren’t just banned.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Is it pure ignorance? Denial? Poverty in America is really inexcusable. I laugh when people talk about how people are “keeping them down”. Newsflash: CEO making bank doesn’t stop you from making bank.

The thing is these people simply lack work ethic and are bad with money. They blow all their funds on trash and if they actually work they don’t want to put in the extra hours or acquire a side hustle. Once I finish my Masters I am planning on working 5 jobs. My only problem is there isn’t enough hours in the week.

It’s all the Colt 45’s, condoms and fast food they’re buying, right? People gotta eat doe.

 

[Falsedawn]

No that's not the 'absolute line'. Absolute poverty has a pretty specific definition and you aren't using it properly. Your own numbers showed that a total failure at life can still support themselves as long as they live within their means (ie fail to reproduce).

We are facing a global dysgenic crisis where the dumbest lowest quality families are by far the most fertile and rather than trying to find ways to counteract this, so many of you are exasperating the problem by trying to socially engineer the word 'poverty' to mean anyone incapable of supporting a family in the world's wealthiest nations.

Now if what you were saying was remotely true — that minimum wage in the US even vaguely resembles absolute poverty (when it doesn't even meet the far, far higher requirements for US relative poverty) then it would become some sort of humanitarian debate about a need for basic nutrition and shelter. Ensuring that everyone can afford to start a family or own subsidized luxury goods isn't humanitarian. It's regressive & a crime against future generations.

>"Why don’t some people accept that Poverty in America is a lifestyle choice?"

>"ACKCHYUALLY according to X third world country...."

Well sure, anything is going to look great if you compare it to those same metrics in a third world country. Unfortunately for logic, this isn't a third world country. Some hillbilly from bumfuck nowhere could move to Liberia and live like a god, but we aren't calling them immeasurably wealthy are we? That's probably one of the most idiotic premises i've seen, and that's including that "If you have a refrigerator you're wealthier than the wealthiest king in 1100" argument.

 

[HatchetHarry]

It’’s a straight troll account. Not sure why obvious trolls aren’t just banned.

Calling someone with different social and political views than yourself a “straight troll” = I can’t formulate a good argument against the OP

 

[Grenz]

@Madmick @Limbo Pete Why wasn't this thread dumped? It's not a loaded question, I'm seriously looking for an answer. IMO, this thread doesn't meet WR standards:

Is it pure ignorance? Denial? Poverty in America is really inexcusable.

The implications of this statement are massive. Yet, there are no arguments listed to support this, no sources.

I laugh when people talk about how people are “keeping them down”. Newsflash: CEO making bank doesn’t stop you from making bank.

Again, a proposition that merits supporting arguments and/or sources, or at least closer inspection.

The thing is these people simply lack work ethic and are bad with money.

Citations needed, specifically demographic data linked with behavioral studies.

They blow all their funds on trash and if they actually work they don’t want to put in the extra hours or acquire a side hustle. Once I finish my Masters I am planning on working 5 jobs. My only problem is there isn’t enough hours in the week.

Ends with a claim which amounts to anecdotal evidence, bringing literally zero value to a discussion about the entire American population.

Maybe all the statements above are true, but TS provides nothing to validate his claims which means he either:

- is just too shitty and lazy busy studying for his master's to put in any effort and is expecting everyone else to do it for him

or

- is a troll

 

[AviatorShades]

>"Why don’t some people accept that Poverty in America is a lifestyle choice?"

>"ACKCHYUALLY according to X third world country...."

Well sure, anything is going to look great if you compare it to those same metrics in a third world country. Unfortunately for logic, this isn't a third world country. Some hillbilly from bumfuck nowhere could move to Liberia and live like a god, but we aren't calling them immeasurably wealthy are we? That's probably one of the most idiotic premises i've seen, and that's including that "If you have a refrigerator you're wealthier than the wealthiest king in 1100" argument.

You haven't yet disagreed with the statement "poverty in America is a lifestyle choice".

You keep mentioning third-world countries (which I haven't). I just mentioned that there is a global standard for the word poverty.
The figures you quoted are poverty neither by US standards nor absolute standards.

You are you using your own custom definition which seems to be: If you can only afford to support yourself month-to-month without much savings (rather than raise a family) then you are in poverty. Is that basically your definition?

I need to know how you are redefining poverty to understand what your point is.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

Well sure, anything is going to look great if you compare it to those same metrics in a third world country. Unfortunately for logic, this isn't a third world country. Some hillbilly from bumfuck nowhere could move to Liberia and live like a god, but we aren't calling them immeasurably wealthy are we?

Reminds me of that CEO a few years back that told poor Murkans to "Stop whining, if you lived in some third-world countries, you'd be kingz!!!!

That's probably one of the most idiotic premises i've seen, and that's including that "If you have a refrigerator you're wealthier than the wealthiest king in 1100" argument.

Classic WR. Poor people are really rich because they have things that medieval kings and cavemen didnt have.