UFN 117 - OSP vs Shogun II - Japan

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Tebowned said:
I'm not betting on Claudia yet but I don't see any value in Andrade. She was a middling contender at 135, top 10 at 115, but don't see her beating JJ, Claudia, Karolina, Rose, or Tecia Torres.
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i disagree about andrade not being able to beat rose/torres/kk, i think she could.. think she's #3 behind jj/gadelha, but i agree that it's competitive w/all of those
 
Sham5916910 said:
Andrade power is overrated too much like Jeremy Stephens. One ko in 11 UFC fights and that was against Penne.
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Its women's straw weight but shes literally the hardest hitter in the division so i'm not sure how someone's power can be over rated when thats the case
 
I beleive Sham is referring to the "Gadehla could get rocked and shoot into a guillotine" line of thinking. Her power may be overrated in the fact that she isn't going to one punch Gadehla and is very unlikely to have her in serious trouble (unless she gasses). CG gassing is actually the most likely way Andrade wins imo, but she should be comfortably up 2-0 going into the third. Also she is training at eleveation and clearly has a better weight cut now, so banking on that is iffy.
 
Oblivian said:
Morono has a major issue with pacing and cardio. I think Morono is getting overrated going into this fight. Keep in mind that most thought he lost to Noke. He then fought Moontasri, and it was sloppy as hell. Both fighters gassed horribly. Against Niko, he looked pretty good at first, but got sloppy again. Not a good sign.
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I recognize he has some cardio issues which worries me but he has a clear striking advantage on the feet and Nakamura is kind of inactive on the feet. I had money on Nakamura vs Noke and he was losing that fight until he caught Noke and got his back late in round 2 which is his thing snatching rear naked chokes out of nowhere.

I recognize Nakamura has a good chin but how many fights is he going to battered and then come back to win with a rear naked choke?
 
MT6ix said:
I recognize he has some cardio issues which worries me but he has a clear striking advantage on the feet and Nakamura is kind of inactive on the feet. I had money on Nakamura vs Noke and he was losing that fight until he caught Noke and got his back late in round 2 which is his thing snatching rear naked chokes out of nowhere.

I recognize Nakamura has a good chin but how many fights is he going to battered and then come back to win with a rear naked choke?
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At least one more ;)
 
Sham5916910 said:
Andrade power is overrated too much like Jeremy Stephens. One ko in 11 UFC fights and that was against Penne.
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Yeah fair enough, 115 girls just can't really punch hard enough to KO eachother but Andrade is one of the hardest hitters at 115. Her pace is more impressive than her power IMO.

I just finished rewatching the Claudia vs Casey fight and even though Claudia dominated that fight she did she glimpses of her cardio issues. A lot of heavy breathing and a decline in movement in the 2nd and 3rd round She fought in bursts and dictated the pace of that fight. She was able to secure takedowns easy because Casey can't stop a takedown to save her life. But the pace of that fight was fairly passive, Claudia was able to take plenty of breaks and in the 3rd she got a massive break after Casey faked getting hit with that illegal kick.

My point is, Andrade fights at a much more aggressive pace, she always moves forward and pressures, Claudia will have to spend a lot of energy to match the pace. While I expect Claudia to get takedowns, I don't think she will get them at will, some of them will get stuffed, Andrade is not Courtney Casey and Andrade does have some effective wrestling herself. Could see Claudia take the 1st round and then slow down in the 2nd and 3rd.

Before Andrade fought JJ, she was so hyped but after we saw JJ the GOAT dominate her, people are now doubting her how good she is. JJ just fought a great fight, very tactical. Styles make fights and Andrade is a tough style match up for Claudia. I am not confident in Claudia's ability to just takedown Andrade and have her way, I think you're being real optimistic if you think that.
 
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Nakamura makes guys work. Mix that in with Morono's pacing issues, a flight to Japan, and a hopefuly grappling heavy gameplan from Nakamura and it spells trouble.
 
MT6ix said:
I recognize he has some cardio issues which worries me but he has a clear striking advantage on the feet and Nakamura is kind of inactive on the feet. I had money on Nakamura vs Noke and he was losing that fight until he caught Noke and got his back late in round 2 which is his thing snatching rear naked chokes out of nowhere.

I recognize Nakamura has a good chin but how many fights is he going to battered and then come back to win with a rear naked choke?
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I think it's more of a pacing issue for Morono than a cardio issue, guy just throws heaters. Also Noke was hardly winning that fight before he got subbed, Nakamura was walking him down and putting hands on him. Noke just broke under the pressure.
 
Zee's MMA Subscriber said:
Yeah fair enough, 115 girls just can't really punch hard enough to KO eachother but Andrade is one of the hardest hitters at 115. Her pace is more impressive than her power IMO.

I just finished rewatching the Claudia vs Casey fight and even though Claudia dominated that fight she did she glimpses of her cardio issues. A lot of heavy breathing and a decline in movement in the 2nd and 3rd round She fought in bursts and dictated the pace of that fight. She was able to secure takedowns easy because Casey can't stop a takedown to save her life. But the pace of that fight was fairly passive, Claudia was able to take plenty of breaks and in the 3rd she got a massive break after Casey faked getting hit with that illegal kick.

My point is, Andrade fights at a much more aggressive pace, she always moves forward and pressures, Claudia will have to spend a lot of energy to match the pace. While I expect Claudia to get takedowns, I don't think she will get them at will, some of them will get stuffed, Andrade is not Courtney Casey and Andrade does have some effective wrestling herself. Could see Claudia take the 1st round and then slow down in the 2nd and 3rd.

Before Andrade fought JJ, she was so hyped but after we saw JJ the GOAT dominate her, people are now doubting her how good she is. JJ just fought a great fight, very tactical. Styles make fights and Andrade is a tough style match up for Claudia. I am not confident in Claudia's ability to just takedown Andrade and have her way, I think you're being real optimistic if you think that.
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Agree its her pace/volume thats gets to people not power. But i think andrades aggressiveness plays into cg's hands reactive double is gonna be there a lot. If you dont think cg can have her way on the mat then you need to rewatch andrades fights when she is on the mat either on top or bottom. Reneau subd her from bottom and moraes scrambled to her back and had a rnc locked in andrade was saved by the bell. From top liz and raquel dominated and finished her. Cg is the best grappler out of all of them.
 
Tough choices for fotn

Wanted dy-ishi but only +400, f that

Took little Stabs on +1000 each:
Jumeau-anzai & kondo-jeon

Basically, anzai is a psycho. And jumeau is a good striker. Could be some fireworks.

Kondo jeon could get it on volume / competitiveness . Jeon and lim both might do the south Korean warcry (jeon's is much cuter).. but lim fight prolly too fast to get consideration
 
Sham5916910 said:
Its overrated cos shes not a finisher
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Wot? She cornered Penne and blasted power shots on her til she crumbled and Hulk slammed Calderwood whos a big 115er.

You're reaching bro. Shes the hardest hitter in the division, its hard to even debate that. Prob strongest girl physically too. Only reason she couldn't finish Hill is cause of shitty footwork, not power. You get cornered by Andrade thats trouble
 
Sham5916910 said:
Agree its her pace/volume thats gets to people not power. But i think andrades aggressiveness plays into cg's hands reactive double is gonna be there a lot. If you dont think cg can have her way on the mat then you need to rewatch andrades fights when she is on the mat either on top or bottom. Reneau subd her from bottom and moraes scrambled to her back and had a rnc locked in andrade was saved by the bell. From top liz and raquel dominated and finished her. Cg is the best grappler out of all of them.
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All the fights you are referring too took place years ago 20 pounds up in weight. losing 20 pounds to go from 135 to 115 is a huge percentage of bodyweight. It's like a 205er dropping to 170. So I can't put too much relevance on these performances. Physically, Andrade is a physical monster at 115, she never belonged at 135, she was too small.

Reneau got the sub after she got dropped, Reneau is also a BJJ black belt and a natural 135er

Moraes was not going to get that sub, she got dominated the whole fight, Andrade's stuffed all her shots easily and took her down 3 times. It was only in the last minute that Moraes was able to backpack her but she wasn't going to tap her, she had the back for like a minute and couldn't do anything.

Carmouche was Andrades UFC debut, just too soon and too strong for Andrade

Pennington is a top 10 135er, very solid fighter, no shame in a loss like that.

All these girls that had degrees of success with grappling vs Andrade were all bigger than Andrade. She was outmatched physically, she is not out matched physically at 115.
 
Zee's MMA Subscriber said:
All the fights you are referring too took place years ago 20 pounds up in weight. losing 20 pounds to go from 135 to 115 is a huge percentage of bodyweight. It's like a 205er dropping to 170. So I can't put too much relevance on these performances. Physically, Andrade is a physical monster at 115, she never belonged at 135, she was too small.

Reneau got the sub after she got dropped, Reneau is also a BJJ black belt and a natural 135er

Moraes was not going to get that sub, she got dominated the whole fight, Andrade's stuffed all her shots easily and took her down 3 times. It was only in the last minute that Moraes was able to backpack her but she wasn't going to tap her, she had the back for like a minute and couldn't do anything.

Carmouche was Andrades UFC debut, just too soon and too strong for Andrade

Pennington is a top 10 135er, very solid fighter, no shame in a loss like that.

All these girls that had degrees of success with grappling vs Andrade were all bigger than Andrade. She was outmatched physically, she is not out matched physically at 115.
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Those are also the only fights where girls with any semblance of wrestling tried to take her down though, so its a double edged sword. Its pretty easy to see where people on CG and people on JA differ and that is if CG will be able to get the takedown or not. We will see shortly!
 
Stunna77 said:
Those are also the only fights where girls with any semblance of wrestling tried to take her down though, so its a double edged sword. Its pretty easy to see where people on CG and people on JA differ and that is if CG will be able to get the takedown or not. We will see shortly!
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I mean, i'm on CG but i'm not about to argue Andrade doesn't have power lol thinking that is blatantly lying to yourself
 
Joseph Budden said:
I mean, i'm on CG but i'm not about to argue Andrade doesn't have power lol thinking that is blatantly lying to yourself
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I see people comparing her to Lineker. She's the Jimmie Rivera of 115.

He has a lot of power but only a few kos.
 
Tebowned said:
I see people comparing her to Lineker. She's the Jimmie Rivera of 115.

He has a lot of power but only a few kos.
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Na Lineker is more poignant cause shes got the most flat footed footwork and throws winging shots. Its women's 115lbs but if you get cornered or stupidly trade in the pocket with Andrade, you're going to get hurt. A LOT more hurt than being in those spots with any other women's 115er. Its reaching to undermine her power for reasons like "she can't one shot KO someone". Women at 135 can't even do that, nvm 115 lol
 
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