Arab-Israeli Conflict, v2: What the UN Jerusalem vote mean for Israel, the U.S, and Palestine

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I'm not Hindu, but I'm not going out of my way to call the Vedas nonsensical. If I were, I would be demonstrating animus toward their religion and culture.

You can't have it both ways. If you want to be a cynical critic of the books that are the heart and soul of the Jewish cultural and religious tradition, and suggest that it ought to have no bearing on decisions Jews make about their country, don't follow it up by saying you bear that tradition no animus. Same goes for those criticizing the Koran in terms similar to those you used imo.

Jerusalem isn't their country though. Only some of it is. That's where the problem lies. The city is also holy to muslims. It's been long agreed the division of the city is something that would happen as part of a final peace deal. The states backing Israel up on this issue is just making any kind of peace deal even less likely than before.
 
Jerusalem isn't their country though. Only some of it is. That's where the problem lies. The city is also holy to muslims. It's been long agreed the division of the city is something that would happen as part of a final peace deal. The states backing Israel up on this issue is just making any kind of peace deal even less likely than before.

I agree. The some of Jerusalem that belongs to Israel is their capital. If the Palestinians ever get a state, then their part can be their capital.
 
This makes me so fucking happy. Finally a president that isn’t afraid to tell the world to fuck off.
Lol. Finally? You don’t pay much attention to history, do you?

You mean like W. B did for 8 years?
 
Why wait? We know exactly what you gonna do no matter what:

- Bitch and whine if the U.S does cut foreign aid to the countries voted against Washington.
- Bitch and whine if the U.S does not cut foreign aid to the countries that voted against Washington.

So why not just get on with it and start bitching and whining now?

I’m not going to bitch if he cuts. The amount of money being paid yearly is ridiculous. I’m going to bitch if he doesn’t because he and Haley made the threats we are taking names and cutting aid. He put it out there. Now he has to go do it.
 
In essence they voted that Trump is an idiot who knows nothing of middle east politics, but here we are.

“The world rejects the new US position on Jerusalem, which increases its isolation, because it decided to stand by the occupying state, Israel, in violation of relevant Security Council resolutions.”

Trump, idiotically fired back at the world:
Trump threatens to cut aid to U.N. members over Jerusalem vote

I think Trump is doing alright on most issues, but he is an idiot when it comes to Israel. Not the first or the last President to do so. Why does Netanyahu need Trump to tell the Israelis where the U.S. Embassy needs to be located? All other Embassies are located in Tel Aviv.

Funny how when the UN voted against U.S. involvement in Iraq, the U.S. did not give 'two-shits' about the results of the vote and went ahead and invaded Iraq in 2003. U.S. to cut aid to certain nations because of the Jerusalem vote? Wow, that is a huge jump in policy. Are we, the U.S., paying for UN votes now, to vote in our favor? Have we become like corrupt politicians in third world countries?

The UN should be dissolved as an organization. It no longer functions for the reasons it was created. No enforcement capabilities. The members can't play well together. Just like the EU.

The U.S. should stop funding and backing Israel. The Israelis are big 'boys' who can take care of themselves. If they get a beating from the Arabs, so be it. Let's go help countries like Bangladesh and African countries who are truly in need of help.
 
I’m not going to bitch if he cuts. The amount of money being paid yearly is ridiculous. I’m going to bitch if he doesn’t because he and Haley made the threats we are taking names and cutting aid. He put it out there. Now he has to go do it.

Let's start with this "strategic ally":



Annual U.S foreign aid to Pakistan: $742.2 Million
 
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Australia, Pacific nations avoid UN Jerusalem vote

eight_col_trump_burn.jpg

Australia and other Pacific nations did not join more than 100 countries in voting at the UN for the US to drop its recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital.

US President Donald Trump had threatened to cut off financial aid to countries that voted in favour. A total of 128 countries backed the resolution, which is non-binding, nine voted against and 35 abstained. Twenty-one countries, including Samoa and Tonga, did not cast a vote.

New Zealand supported the UN resolution calling for the US to withdraw a decision to recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital. New Zealand's longstanding foreign policy position supports a two-state solution. President Trump's move overturned decades of American foreign policy and defied world opinion.

The 35 abstentions included Australia, Fiji, Vanuatu, Tuvalu and the Solomon Islands.

Australian UN Ambassador Gillian Bird said Australia wanted to see the US play a leadership role in brokering peace and abstained from the vote, saying:

"We do not wish to see any party isolated from the process."

"There is much in this resolution with which we agree," Ms Bird told the General Assembly after the vote.

"We do not, however, consider that this further resolution in addition to the many on the peace process issued by the general assembly helps brings the parties back to the negotiating table."

Nevertheless, Washington found itself isolated as many of its Western and Arab allies voted for the measure.

Some of those allies, like Egypt, Jordan and Iraq, are major recipients of US military or economic aid, although the US threat to cut aid did not single out any country.

A spokesman for Western-backed Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas called the vote "a victory for Palestine" but Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu rejected the vote as "preposterous".

US Ambassador to the UN, Nikki Haley, told the 193-member General Assembly ahead of Thursday's vote:

"The United States will remember this day in which it was singled out for attack in the General Assembly for the very act of exercising our right as a sovereign nation."

Australia was joined by Canada, Mexico, Argentina, Colombia, Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, Philippines, Rwanda, Uganda and South Sudan in abstaining.

Guatemala, Honduras, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Palau, Nauru and Togo joined the US and Israel in voting no.

According to figures from the US government's aid agency USAID, in 2016 the United States provided some $US13 billion in economic and military assistance to countries in sub-Saharan Africa and $US1.6 billion to states in East Asia and Oceania.

The General Assembly vote was called at the request of Arab and Muslim countries after the United States vetoed the same resolution on Monday in the 15-member UN Security Council.

The remaining 14 Security Council members voted in favour of the Egyptian-drafted resolution, which did not specifically mention the United States or Trump but expressed "deep regret at recent decisions concerning the status of Jerusalem".

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/346786/australia-pacific-nations-avoid-un-jerusalem-vote
 
lol


Fuck the Saudis. Give the US a motivated Germany/Poland and a Healthy Japan and we'll wreck that line up.

Yeah, well, have fun dying for boeing, Lockheed martin, and our corporatocracy.

I know I won't be showing up.
 
Right you went there spent a trillion dollars, got 5k service members killed with tens of thousands of injured ones, completed absolutely zero objectives and only made the terrorists stronger then left when the American public approval for the war reached political suicide levels.

But you guys won because you killed a lot of people, won what exactly I don't know.

I didn't say we accomplished a thing, but we certainly didn't leave running with our tails tucked.
 
I didn't say we accomplished a thing, but we certainly didn't leave running with our tails tucked.

The cost of the war was turning into political suicide and most Americans wanted out.

Thats what i meant by tucking tail and running it was a quagmire and the US didnt wanted anymore of that.
 
This is one of thousands of examples for why I don't understand why US citizens support Israel.

Does an ally corrupt your government?



Massachusetts lawmakers to vote on anti-BDS bill after going on free trip to Israel and West Bank settlements

On December 7, a day after President Trump announced that the U.S. was recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital, 13 Massachusetts legislators made their way to Israel as fully-subsidized guests of a lobby group, the Jewish Community Relations Council (JCRC) of Greater Boston.They were due back on December 17.

They were accompanied by JCRC head Jeremy Burton, who reports on the JCRC website that he has taken a third of the current sitting members of the Massachusetts legislature to Israel during the past six years, and loves being able “to witness as our participants fall in love with the leaders and activists who’ve inspired and energized me for years.”

The impact of the lovefest with Israel will hardly have had time to wear off before three members of the 2017 JCRC delegation are slated to vote on whether the bill against Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) drafted and heavily pushed by the JCRC should be given the thumbs up by their State Administration and Regulatory Oversight Committee and passed to Ways and Means, which is chaired by another member of the current trip.

The JCRC’s stealth legislation
Over the past year Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP) Boston, Massachusetts Peace Action (MAPA) and the Alliance for Water Justice in Palestine have built a vigorous campaign against the deceptively-named “Act to Prohibit Discrimination in State Contracts.”

On the surface the bill merely underscores legislation already on the books prohibiting discrimination.To skirt First Amendment boycott protections, it makes no mention of Israel or its real aim: to suppress the movement for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions.

But that intention became clear enough in the JCRC’s lobbying efforts.It has urged lawmakers to “stand together” in support of Israel and the bill, and condemn BDS as a form of “national origin discrimination.”

But BDS has nothing to do with national origin discrimination, as delegations from JVP, MAPA and the Alliance explained in meetings with dozens of legislators.They took with them an Open Letter signed by more than 100 Massachusetts organizations that came together in a Freedom to Boycott Coalition.

Many lawmakers said they were wholly unaware of the real purpose of the bill.Some who were listed among the 65 or so co-sponsors said they would not have signed on had they known.Others confessed they had no idea about Israel’s violation of Palestinian rights, and thought BDS was simply about hating Israel. Several stated that they thought JCRC spoke for the entire Jewish community and were surprised to hear that many Jews support BDS.

As JVP’s Jill Charney pointed out in her meetings with legislators, JVP has 5,000 members in Massachusetts who have taken a strong stand in supporting the BDS Campaign. “There are many other Jews, not affiliated with JVP, who condemn the expansion of the settlements and participate in boycotting settlement goods,” she said. “And there are others, who may not participate in boycotting, but are opposed to many of the discriminatory laws against Palestinians living in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza.”

On July 18, 2017 an all-day committee hearing on the bill took place in a packed State House auditorium. Over five dozen people testified against the bill, among them an ACLU attorney as part of a distinguished panel of constitutional lawyers, as well as community leaders, educators, and religious leaders such as Rabbi Brian Walt, who talked about his personal witnessing of Israelis subjecting Palestinians to “systemic discrimination very similar to what I witnessed as a child in South Africa.”

An eloquent written statement was submitted to the committee members signed by 108 ministers and other faith leaders from around Massachusetts.It informed them that “many of us are part of denominations and national faith organizations which have already divested from companies that profit from the Israeli military occupation.As a result, if this bill passed, our local organizations could be banned from receiving state contracts.”

Among those who testified about how the bill could affect them personally was a former IDF veteran who trained as a fighter pilot and is now a Massachusetts State Vendor. Omar Hecht told the legislators how he came to realize that he was helping the mechanism of oppression, and declared that “I will not stand idly by while millions suffer.”He urged them to reject a bill that enables discrimination by silencing voices that speak out against it.

The State Administration and Regulatory Oversight Committee has until early February to decide what to do with the bill.

Junket a conflict of interest?Not in Massachusetts.
With the anti-BDS bill reportedly JCRC’s number one legislative priority, the stakes for this year’s trip to Israel are particularly high.

Yes, Massachusetts does have a conflict of interest law, which prohibits legislators from accepting gifts of more than $50.

But under Massachusetts Ethics Commission rules, elected officials can accept “reimbursement, waiver, or payment of travel expenses of substantial value, provided by any person other than a public agency or a lobbyist, if the elected public employee determines in writing prior to any travel …that acceptance of such reimbursement, waiver, or payment will serve a legitimate public purpose.”

Even though JCRC is registered with the state secretary as a lobbying organization, they appear to have no trouble making the case that the $4,000 – $6,000 in funds expended per participant are legitimate because no paid lobbyists are on the trip.

In March 2016, Massachusetts Peace Action filed a formal complaint with the Ethics Commission against nine state senators–almost a quarter of the Senate–who travelled to Israel for 10 days on the JCRC’s tab in December 2015.The 2015 trip was announced just three weeks after the Senate adopted a resolution, again written by JCRC, denouncing BDS.The timing of the trip made it appear a reward for a favorable vote.

The Ethics Commission brushed off the complaint, ruling that as long as lawmakers file disclosure statements including their determination “that the travel served a legitimate public purpose,” they can put conflict of interest concerns out of their minds.

In the words of retired attorney Susan Nicholson who helped MAPA file its complaint, “It doesn’t make much sense to allow legislators to determine for themselves that their travel serves a legitimate public interest that outweighs any conflict of interest that may be involved.If legislators can be trusted to make that determination, why bother with a conflict of interest law in the first place?”

The JCRC ‘study tour’ in the wake of Trump’s announcement
In the initial JCRC schedule, several daysare devoted to such tourist activities as visiting Masada, floating in the Dead Sea, visiting museums and touring Jerusalem, accompanied by their “tour educator,” Mike Hollander.Hollander lives in Modi’in, which is 3 and a half miles from Modi’in Illit that straddles the green line on land taken from Bil’in and other Palestinian villages.

Bil’in, where villagers have for 12 years held the weekly nonviolent demonstrations against the loss of their land depicted in the film Five Broken Cameras, is one of many Palestinian communities that have been brutalized by the Israeli Defense Force since Trump’s Jerusalem announcement.Will any of this be brought to the delegation’s attention?

Under the heading “Road Signs of Understanding the Middle East,” the delegation isalso supposed to visit Ramallah.But along with a walking tour of the Old City, this portion of the itinerary was almost certainly scrapped on “security grounds.”

Much of the itinerary is focused on Israel’s security.The delegation is scheduled to drive north on the Israeli side of part of the security barrier (where the Wall has been reduced in height by mounded earth and is pleasantly decorated), make stops on the Lebanese and Syrian borders, visit a moshav on the edge of the Gaza Strip, and talk ethics with a brigadier general. Also scheduled is a visit to the Gush Etzion settlement bloc, the Knesset, a bilingual school in Haifa and–as a gesture towards the Commonwealth’s business interests–a brief stop at the MassChallenge accelerator for start-ups.

Does such a trip–coming at a time when Palestinians and the world are denouncing Trump’s Jerusalem move and touring U.S. elected officials can readily be perceived as engaged in a victory lap–do anything to advance the legitimate public purposes of the Commonwealth?

“The trip is disturbing on many levels,” states Elsa Auerbach of JVP Boston.“First, of course, no public official who is considering a piece of legislation should accept an all-expense paid trip from the very lobbying group that has written the legislation.Second, the bill that legislators will be considering is blatantly deceptive in that it poses as ‘anti-discrimination’ legislation while in fact targeting those who oppose Israeli policies.Adding another layer of deception, the organizers of the trip promote it as purely education, but have in fact curated an itinerary designed to promote a pro-Israel agenda."

http://mondoweiss.net/2017/12/massachusetts-lawmakers-settlements/
 
The UK backed the resolution.

I think he meant Australia.

U.K's vote surprised me, to be honest. I thought they would have abstained for sure like Canada/Australia/Mexico since they're desperaty need a life boat in that icy-cold Brexit water. Gonna be very interesting to see how this plays out.
 
I think he meant Australia.

U.K's vote surprised me, to be honest. I thought they would have abstained for sure like Canada/Australia/Mexico since they're desperaty need a life boat in that icy-cold Brexit water. Gonna be very interesting to see how this plays out.

Missed that. I guess that explains the Theresa May/trump squabble we saw recently.
 
Yeah, well, have fun dying for boeing, Lockheed martin, and our corporatocracy.

I know I won't be showing up.



If a war like this did break out and the the US side lost -and you live in the US (or the countries siding with the US) yeah, good luck with that yourself.
 
Guess it depends on what you are fighting for when you die then. For liberty, or for your betters.



I spose so.


The best outcome is that nothing ever happens and our life as micro corporate shills goes on. Maybe that's not a great outcome, but you know what I mean..
 
looks like 128 countries can just go fuck themselves and stop asking for hand outs


No, they'll just go to other countries for their handouts.
Countries that may or may not have interests directly opposing America's.

^thats called lessening of international influence.
 
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