Why do so many people in bjj not lift weights

[shortlefthook]

You can post on sherdog during your rest periods at the gym.

Or at work during your lunch breaks..

I guess you have more time to post in sherdog than train.

Do you know what break time is George?
Ever had a job?

 

[Dirty Holt]

Short term, yes. But what happens when that guy who lifts twice a week starts doing BJJ 3 times a week after spending 6-12 months getting strong?

Or when he starts using that work capacity he built with the extra strength training to train more than the first guy?

He still gets beat by the guy who put more time in on the mats.

 

[shortlefthook]

He still gets beat by the guy who put more time in on the mats.

If only life was that fair

 

[Kirra]

He still gets beat by the guy who put more time in on the mats.

I don't think it's as black and white as you make it out to be here.

If mat work was all you ever needed to be the best wrestler/grappler you can be, then nobody would be doing S&C work. IMO it's pretty silly to ignore GPP work if you want to improve at your sport, especially if you just started training.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

I lifted religiously for almost 10 years. Not at any type of competitive strength or physique athlete level, but at least 3-4 times a week. However I never lift weights anymore. After I hurt my back in 2016, any lifting, no matter how light, just made me feel bad afterwards. And even more so if I was trying to do martial arts and lifting in the same week. Just wasn't happening with my body anymore.

Now I work with resistance bands and wish I had started sooner.

 

[nefti]

I don't think it's as black and white as you make it out to be here.

If mat work was all you ever needed to be the best wrestler/grappler you can be, then nobody would be doing S&C work. IMO it's pretty silly to ignore GPP work if you want to improve at your sport, especially if you just started training.

Dude you do realize that posters here have been training for over a decade. Many in multiple grappling styles. Myself included.

 

[Kirra]

Dude you do realize that posters here have been training for over a decade. Many in multiple grappling styles. Myself included.

Huh?

I am very aware of who Holt is and I massively respect his contributions to these forums. This doesn't mean that I have to agree with him on every little detail of training though.

 

[andrewm2211]

Whoa this thread is still going.

 

[Dirty Holt]

I don't think it's as black and white as you make it out to be here.

If mat work was all you ever needed to be the best wrestler/grappler you can be, then nobody would be doing S&C work. IMO it's pretty silly to ignore GPP work if you want to improve at your sport, especially if you just started training.

OK, I will bite. At what poundage increase of weight lifting exercises will overcome 110 hours of pure BJJ training?

2 guys have identical strength starting points, and identical technique starting points. One guy trains 2x a week, one guy trains 3x a week. They both do this for a year. How much does your bench, squat, deadlift have to go up to overcome the guy who has trained 110 more hours on the mat? One guy has put in 33% more time strictly training bjj. How much poundage does this guy have to increase to have that be the deciding factor in not only being able to defend himself, but actually be able to outscore or submit the guy only training bjj, and is that total poundage even possible in a year?

 

[Atrfin]

I suppose a good example for this discussion is Dan Strauss' post fight interview at Polaris 5 against Jack Shields. He is big into strongman type training but said Jake Shields felt super strong and gave credit to his strength through years of grappling instead of lifting. So my question is, why do some high level grapplers put aside time for GPP then when others don't?

 

[Kirra]

OK, I will bite. At what poundage increase of weight lifting exercises will overcome 110 hours of pure BJJ training?

2 guys have identical strength starting points, and identical technique starting points. One guy trains 2x a week, one guy trains 3x a week. They both do this for a year. How much does your bench, squat, deadlift have to go up to overcome the guy who has trained 110 more hours on the mat? One guy has put in 33% more time strictly training bjj. How much poundage does this guy have to increase to have that be the deciding factor in not only being able to defend himself, but actually be able to outscore or submit the guy only training bjj, and is that total poundage even possible in a year?

In that scenario I absolutely agree with you. 3 times a week guy will crush the dude who trains twice a week. But I'd be more interested to see what happens in the years after, when the guy who spent a year getting strong starts training 3 or even 4 times a week. What happens when his skill level starts approaching the first guys?

Besides, it's not like most people are so busy that they can't find time to lift in addition to their BJJ training, it doesn't have to be an either-or thing.

I kinda feel like we are misunderstanding each others arguments, because I'm not saying that lifting will make you better at BJJ in the short term, and I don't think you are of the opinion that S&C is worthless for beginner grapplers?

 

[Dirty Holt]

If only life was that fair

We were referencing two 1st year grapplers. Surprised you couldnt figure that out.

 

[KnightTemplar]

BJJ is not a Strength Sport. Technique will always be far more important than strength. In fact, when it comes to physical attributes for BJJ, I would put Strength in third place, behind Flexibility and Stamina.

 

[anaconda]

What parts wrong in your opinion?

Grappling more is better to build stamina for grappling compared to running...right

Progressively overloading with weights is far more effective and safe to build strength than using humans..right

A strong squat will definitely make it easier for you to stand in guard theres absolutely no debate.

And strong deadlift will absolutely make it harder to get your posture broken

And strong Turkish getup will absolutely improve your scrambling ability making it eaiser to get up.

Running does not include the same lactic acid buildup that grappling does, it's great to get the heart rate going but it's not as good as actually grappling, that's a given.

Im sure At the very least you have never rolled with a high level lifter so you don't have much experience with this topic, my friend is a capital city barbell competitor at 83kg over 500lbs deadlift, no real grappling background and he's virtually impossible to pull down and break posture, traingle ect, having that type of strength and resilience is a massive tool in the right hands.
So for someone on sherdog to claim that's not a direct benefit to being able to mantain a straight posture while holding 500lbs (when that's litterally all he does, sounds delusional, and I can't take you serious on that note.
Yes technique is key, but lifts like the three mentioned above can directly benefit your game, there's no debate.




I found that post in one of your threads you made a long time ago...
Looks like you didn't learn from your mistakes
The video of you squating also shows how imobile you are in that position, tight hamstrings and hips, recipe for lower back problems.
Being imobile by default makes you allot weaker your muslces aren't working together.
Imagine if you could squat 150lbs more than 215 without your lower back rounding, with your skill you would be better, and less inury prone, stronger and more balanced in that position.
Pretty much what I been saying this whole thread and you're argueing against it, when you yourself have inurys and imobilty issues.
Ironic tbh.




Na bro just roll all day, be injury prone and imobile

Exactly that indirectly makes you a better grappler, it's training optimally.

How long have you been training? (asking for the third time)

Keep making strawmen. Good luck with your progress!

 

[anaconda]

Training optimally lessons by a white belt

 

[anaconda]

I don't think it's as black and white as you make it out to be here.

If mat work was all you ever needed to be the best wrestler/grappler you can be, then nobody would be doing S&C work. IMO it's pretty silly to ignore GPP work if you want to improve at your sport, especially if you just started training.

No one is arguing that (or shouldn't be). The point is, until you get to a reasonably high level, skills training far supercedes attribute training when you have a zero sum allotment of time. If you are brand new to training and can only train 10 hours a week, if grappling is your priority then spend all 10 hours training grappling.

Once you've reached a level of proficiency, and if you are looking to compete, then yes it makes sense to SUPPLEMENT your training with lifting or cardio or GPP.

If you are a white belt gassing out in the gym rolling then you should be training more, not going for a run. If everyone feels stronger than you, train more grappling - don't lift. You will learn how to overcome and compensate and become better for it. And your skills will improve more quickly than someone who trains left. This isn't even disputable.

 

[anaconda]

OK, I will bite. At what poundage increase of weight lifting exercises will overcome 110 hours of pure BJJ training?

2 guys have identical strength starting points, and identical technique starting points. One guy trains 2x a week, one guy trains 3x a week. They both do this for a year. How much does your bench, squat, deadlift have to go up to overcome the guy who has trained 110 more hours on the mat? One guy has put in 33% more time strictly training bjj. How much poundage does this guy have to increase to have that be the deciding factor in not only being able to defend himself, but actually be able to outscore or submit the guy only training bjj, and is that total poundage even possible in a year?

I gave an example early on of twins, genetically identical, that start training at the same time. One guy trains 5x a week, other guy trains 3x a week and lifts/works out 2x. The guy that only trains will be ahead of the other guy in very short order, and will never concede that advantage.

 

[shortlefthook]

How long have you been training? (asking for the third time)

Keep making strawmen. Good luck with your progress!

Because I already answered that earlier in the thread and I fail to see how that's at all relevant to your point if anything that's a strawman trying to change the subject to the old "I been grappling longer I must be right" lol

Training optimally lessons by a white belt

Oh look there it is lmao, yeah I should take advice from someone with mobility and back issues, I want to be just like you.

you either have a argument or dont my experience should not alter your argument or points.
Because you seem to think it is, in April it will be 8 years total grappling experience (4 years wrestling)

I think I'm much better off now than going 8 years only wrestling/rolling, that's a strong opinion of mine that I find no reason not to believe, especially because I took about 20 something months off lifting, felt good to build myself up again.

Once you've reached a level of proficiency, and if you are looking to compete, then yes it makes sense to SUPPLEMENT your training with lifting or cardio or GPP.

That's my point, I literally wrote that
lol don't know where you're disagreement or comes from.

Thats my point man! A bjj based grappler with a certain level of grappling will benefit greatly from strength because they know how to apply that strength.
It's not only wrestling, wrestling definitely requires more strength because everybodys fighting for their lives to keep their back off Matt so it's more push and pull than bjj.
But bjj has various positions And submissions that would greatly benefit from strength (kimuras) for example.
Most importantly it makes you more robust and less likely to be injured it's s good way to optimize your training

you come across as extremely entitled, litterally rewriting exactly what I been saying, but being argumentative for no reason, because you must have all the answers.
I must be a white belt, That will make you feel better about your self

 

[HunterAcosta]

I don't think it's as black and white as you make it out to be here.

If mat work was all you ever needed to be the best wrestler/grappler you can be, then nobody would be doing S&C work. IMO it's pretty silly to ignore GPP work if you want to improve at your sport, especially if you just started training.

For reals. I cant believe this even a debate really. Its not black and white. Good or bad. Of course the sport u do and sport specific training trumps(no pun intended) weight training, but to deny that it helps at all is a slap in the face to MOST S & C coaches/trainers that work for Major sports organizations/athletes. Im sure people on Sherdog know more than the S & C coaches on the Dallas Cowboys, Real Madrid, New York Yankees, Golden State Warriors, etc. Not to mention people like Serena Williams, Rafael Nadal, Andre Galvao, Rafa Mendes, Steph Curry, Adrian Peterson, Teddy Riner, and Lebron James who incorporate some kind of weight/machine training into their sport specific drills/regimens. Guess they are all wasting their time, because of course only so many hours in a day. Don't wanna waste it doing S & C, right?! Somebody on Sherdog should just tell them to just practice more. All they need. Wasting their time. Save money for the teams on S & C coaches/trainers. Write them all letters. It'll go over real well. Surely. I promise.

 

[fanboysareevil]

Being strong is great.

S&C is great.

OP is not great.