A Leaked Democratic Response to Nunes Memo (But Not “the Memo”)

Which claims do you think are untrue?
Looking at the memo for details. The only claim that I think is clearly untrue is in 1.a: that none of the documents "disclose or reference the role of the DNC, Clinton campaign, or any party/campaign in funding Steele's efforts." No matter how specific you think the contents of the footnote are, they do relate to such.

Besides that, i think a fair amount is misleading. (e.g. it conflates exculpactory evidence with that bearing on credibility), or irrelevancies worked in to imply misconduct where it's not relevant (e.g. section 5 is irrelevant red meat wrt Carter's FISA warrant-its just an excuse to shoehorn Strozk's texts in), or doesn't exist (Yahoo article, discussed below). Consequently, I disagree with some of the conclusions in the first paragraph dealing with legality.
Yes. So we should probably disregard the Democrat talking point that the dossier was funded by both parties.
I agree with you insofar as this is an irrelevant bothsides argument.
It feels like you might be glossing over details here. To order surveillance of a US citizen, the FISA requires first that the FISC find probable cause that the potential target is a foreign agent. I don't think you or I could possibly be aware of what that standard entails, given that the Court meets in secret and I'm unaware of any warrant applications being unclassified. That said, the amazingly high rate of approvals (99.7%) suggests the bar is set pretty low. More on that below.
The standard (of evidence) is probable cause. This is well-established outside FISA law. The thing that needs to be established to that level is whether someone is a foreign agent. Most FISA cases I found were heavily redacted such that it's not possible to see what was used to establish probable cause in those cases, but they rely heavily on non-FISA caselaw dealing with probable cause. The thing to be established is different (foreign agent v crime) but the analytical framework has a lot of overlap.

Fwiw, challenges like this to evidence used to obtain a warrant usually come under Franks v delaware. Franks has been applied to FISA warrants. (Franks is most narrowly interpreted to challenge the credibility of the affiant if they make false statements by govt agents, not the nongovt source they rely on). Some circuits, including the dcc, apply Franks to intentional nondisclosure by the affiant/applicant of material evidence instead. They usually apply this to non-disclosure of exculpactory evidence, though.

Didn't check all but I think the 9th at least has expanded Franks to apply to the affiants' nondisclosure of evidence relating to reliability of an informant, as here. Analysis was that the officer applying for a warrant deliberately or recklessly omitted info that materially impacted an important informant's credibility. (The DCC has rejected this in Becton). I didn't find any applying this to FiSA, but that's not surprising for such a specific use of that doctrine.
In most areas of human interaction, I believe in the principle of "follow the money".

If I were a judge, I think I would like to know that the primary evidentiary material provided to justify surveiling an individual was fully funded by the political opponents of the candidate who the individual was affiliated with.
Mostly adding this to refer to a previous post: if FISA acts at all like other warrants in this respect, this would be nice information, but not something that makes a material difference, even under the 9th standard.
Again, we don't know if the dossier and the Yahoo! News article constituted the primary evidentiary material in question, but that is Nunes's assertion.
Its actually not asserted in the memo. Theres a clever bit of legerdemain here. He notes that the Yahoo article is cited extensively, and that it isn't corroborating. But he doesn't come out and say that it was actually the evidence presented as corroborating.

I'll further note that the memo has a timeline issue that renders this meaningless: its "not corroborating" of Steele's dossier because it was leaked by Steele. Sure, that makes sense. But the FBI didn't learn that Steele was leaking until after they submitted the warrant application -- see the first paragraph. At that point, treating it as corroborating evidence would have been incorrect, but not wrongdoing-theres no bad faith. By splitting those up, the memo hides the ball and implies that the FBI improperly let Steele corroborate himself.

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Nothing better illustrates the intellectual and moral rot on the right than one guy who has been frequently willing to give up his dignity in support of Trump insisting that a right-wing site is partisan against the GOP because they are honest on one issue and another guy in the same category calling the first guy partisan because he's seeking a more-plausible defense of the GOP.



The really interesting question is who recommended Page to Trump or generally how he became an adviser to Trump. He's a buffoon who didn't have the resume to have the role he did with a presidential campaign and was widely known to be compromised.
How could anybody suspect that Page came on by any other way than being plucked from the Russia orbit?
 
How could anybody suspect that Page came on by any other way than being plucked from the Russia orbit?

Seems like the obvious answer, but what is the Trump-Russia denier explanation? Same applies to Manafort and Flynn, of course.
 
Seems like the obvious answer, but what is the Trump-Russia denier explanation? Same applies to Manafort and Flynn, of course.
I have never seen Manafort or Page addressed on this. Flynn could probably skate in because of his military background and Obama's warning about him being willfully ignored, if he were the only traitor in the bunch.
 
Liberal America. Where decorated generals are called traitors, and people who side with foreign nationals are called heroes.

That is why you lose.
 
Yes but they might lead you to other Americans who have broken the law.
Might?

Let's put a US citizen under surveillance because it MIGHT lead to someone else committing a crime

That sounds cool
 
Liberal America. Where decorated generals are called traitors, and people who side with foreign nationals are called heroes.

That is why you lose.
I've never heard of an undecorated general...
 
Might?

Let's put a US citizen under surveillance because it MIGHT lead to someone else committing a crime

That sounds cool
Do you believe that we should wait until determining that someone has definitely committed a crime before investigating them?
 
Also people with Russia obsessions I've found more often than not have ethnic based historical grievances revolving around being repressed by cossacks and the like. They don't really identify as American very deeply.
 
Also people with Russia obsessions I've found more often than not have historical greviences revolving around being repressed by cossacks and the like.
I think you might need to log off the internet for awhile, Wiolent.
 
Also people with Russia obsessions I've found more often than not have ethnic based historical grievances revolving around being repressed by cossacks and the like. They don't really identify as American very deeply.
Oh no the juice
 
They also tend to obsess about how we're not bombing the brown people they don't like with enough regularity or ferocity. They even go so far as to infer we're morally deformed for not committing mass murder on our taxpayer dime and the blood of our soldiers at the rate/scale they desire to support the expansion of their fascist apartheid ethnostate.

At the end of the day, they're mad cause Russia is moving in on "their mark."
 
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Somehow the higher brow antisemitism comes off further down the gutter than the lowbrow stuff. Probably because of Jewess magic.

It's truly antisemetic for us not to acknowledge our moral superiors, stop seeking political representation for the Historical American Nation and send our children to die for the expansion of their etnostate project into Syria. Must be Cossack voodoo.
 
It's truly antisemetic for us not to acknowledge our moral superiors, stop seeking political representation and send our children to die for the expansion of their etnostate project into Syria. Must be Cossack voodoo.
oof

You should learn to quit when you're ahead. Your last post had a certain umami to it. This one is just Diet Joke.
 
oof

You should learn to quit when you're ahead. Your last post had a certain umami to it. This one is just Diet Joke.

I know your grandparents probably spoke Russian, you can try and fit a couple of loan words into there next time to infer I work for Putin.
 
Somehow the higher brow antisemitism comes off further down the gutter than the lowbrow stuff. Probably because of Jewess magic.
I think it's because the lowbrow stuff is just angry and dumb. The highbrow stuff is deliberately dishonest in an attempt to manipulate.
 
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